Trump Presidency Round 2

TorontoGold

TorontoGold

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NDVirginia19 said:
Or…. We can wait like ten minutes and see if the bullshit being posted by propaganda or obvious disinformation campaign operatives is actually true
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Or…..we just find the ones we like and call everything we don't like propaganda and obvious disinformation campaign operatives!

Idk maybe I'll take the human rights lawyer (brown guy so who knows really if he's a good person or not) over Nick "On-scene covering stories MSM won’t" but then has "Seen on @TuckerCarlson Tonight, Fox News, Newsmax, Timcast, etc." Sortor. Totally makes sense to call me out and not the absolute retard drivel shit that Drayer slops on here. Maybe we can get the product of incest Nick Shirely to chime in.
 
IrishinSyria

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NDVirginia19 said:
Knowing propagation of lies at the behest of Islamic terrorists that could undermine the success of the ceasefire and lead to more death and destruction as a way to stick it to Trump. Who’s surprised
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Have they published the second ten point proposal he claims Trump is referring to? The media/dems are catching heat here but there appears to be a material difference in what the Americans believe they agreed to and what the Iranians believe they agreed to.

At the very least, it is crystal clear that Pakistan, which mediated the ceasefire, understood Lebanon to have been part of the deal:

 
Bantry19

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NDVirginia19 said:
Knowing propagation of lies at the behest of Islamic terrorists that could undermine the success of the ceasefire and lead to more death and destruction as a way to stick it to Trump. Who’s surprised
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Do we KNOW that’s what’s happening here?

Is this when we believe the administration’s rhetoric or still bullshit? Tell me when!
 
TorontoGold

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chud-wojak.gif


Hmmmmmm we clearly don't know that Hungary is part of NATO, and that Trump is actually using this tweet as a masterful gambit to position himself away from Orban. Truly some foreign policy wizardry!
 
NDVirginia19

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Ukraine is showing us that NATO is not necessary to stop Russia’s military, and the past three years of NATO’s inability to contribute any useful forces to stop Houthi’s harassment of shipping and denial of bases and airspace for our war with Iran proves that they would be worthless in conflict against China (if not outright detrimental)

NATO was developed to be a counter to Soviet invasion of Europe, and I think it’s outlived its use. The EU can defend itself and we can work up bilateral agreements for basing as we desire in Europe.
 
Armyirish47

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NDVirginia19 said:
Ukraine is showing us that NATO is not necessary to stop Russia’s military, and the past three years of NATO’s inability to contribute any useful forces to stop Houthi’s harassment of shipping and denial of bases and airspace for our war with Iran proves that they would be worthless in conflict against China (if not outright detrimental)

NATO was developed to be a counter to Soviet invasion of Europe, and I think it’s outlived its use. The EU can defend itself and we can work up bilateral agreements for basing as we desire in Europe.
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Ukraine is demonstrating the necessity of NATO to stop Russia's military by continuing to provide the military aid, financial aid and training of Ukrainian forces that has stopped Russia in it's track thanks to their coordinated efforts, and their decades long call to arms alongside us in Iraq and Afghanistan have proven their value in conflicts around the world.

NATO was developed to be a counter to Soviet invasion of Europe and has continued to evolve to answer changing global threats to the members of the alliance. Our continued efforts to defend one another continues to allow the United States to project power like no other military in history.
 
Sea Turtle

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Armyirish47 said:
Ukraine is demonstrating the necessity of NATO to stop Russia's military by continuing to provide the military aid, financial aid and training of Ukrainian forces that has stopped Russia in it's track thanks to their coordinated efforts, and their decades long call to arms alongside us in Iraq and Afghanistan have proven their value in conflicts around the world.

NATO was developed to be a counter to Soviet invasion of Europe and has continued to evolve to answer changing global threats to the members of the alliance. Our continued efforts to defend one another continues to allow the United States to project power like no other military in history.
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It was to keep Germany down, keep the Soviets out and America in.
 
NDVirginia19

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Armyirish47 said:
Ukraine is demonstrating the necessity of NATO to stop Russia's military by continuing to provide the military aid, financial aid and training of Ukrainian forces that has stopped Russia in it's track thanks to their coordinated efforts, and their decades long call to arms alongside us in Iraq and Afghanistan have proven their value in conflicts around the world.

NATO was developed to be a counter to Soviet invasion of Europe and has continued to evolve to answer changing global threats to the members of the alliance. Our continued efforts to defend one another continues to allow the United States to project power like no other military in history.
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I don’t think NATO as a framework is necessary to keep giving Ukraine aid. We sell military arms and give military aid to plenty of countries that are not in NATO.

The basing rights that we are granted are great from NATO, but we saw very clearly how fragile that is when NATO partners denied us their basing and overflights for Iran.
 
Armyirish47

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NDVirginia19 said:
I don’t think NATO as a framework is necessary to keep giving Ukraine aid. We sell military arms and give military aid to plenty of countries that are not in NATO.

The basing rights that we are granted are great from NATO, but we saw very clearly how fragile that is when NATO partners denied us their basing and overflights for Iran.
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And I think without the framework the coordination wouldn't be nearly as unified, which has been essential to the success of the Ukrainians. We do much more than just sell arms and provide aid with our NATO partners, as you presumably well know as a member of the military.

Only fragile when we decide to treat our partners not as valued participants but rather as vassals to meet our own nebulous intent.
 
drayer54

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NDVirginia19 said:
I don’t think NATO as a framework is necessary to keep giving Ukraine aid. We sell military arms and give military aid to plenty of countries that are not in NATO.

The basing rights that we are granted are great from NATO, but we saw very clearly how fragile that is when NATO partners denied us their basing and overflights for Iran.
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I think Trump and Rubio are going to look to punish Starmer and Sanchez very soon for this bullshit.

I think we need to eat some humble pie and put some people in Ukraine to learn drone fighting skills. The post mortem from Iran might have a lesson learned that we took took too many hits from cheap drones and had to many expensive patriot launches to knock down cheap threats.
 
GATTACA!

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TracyGraham said:
How are people this fucking dumb to see this and still pretend like everything is ok?
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Because Trump told them so. It's literally that simple. They have complete blind faith in the biggest scam artist in any of our lifetimes. It doesn't matter how many times he contradicts himself or outright lies. He can run on no new wars, releasing the Epstein files, affordability, etc and then do the exact opposite and they don't care.
 
NDVirginia19

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Armyirish47 said:
And I think without the framework the coordination wouldn't be nearly as unified, which has been essential to the success of the Ukrainians. We do much more than just sell arms and provide aid with our NATO partners, as you presumably well know as a member of the military.

Only fragile when we decide to treat our partners not as valued participants but rather as vassals to meet our own nebulous intent.
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That’s possible, sure. I think that a NATO without the US could still have a united front.

The problem is that our allies in NATO have, writ large, not treated the alliance in a way to be viewed as valued participants. The petulantly refused to meet the 2% for over two decades and made us pick up the bill to provide them their defense for them. All the while they’ve adopted strategically self defeating energy and industrial policy making the continental powers dependent on Russia for their energy needs as they’ve shuttered (or taxed to death) their own energy production.
 
Armyirish47

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NDVirginia19 said:
That’s possible, sure. I think that a NATO without the US could still have a united front.

The problem is that our allies in NATO have, writ large, not treated the alliance in a way to be viewed as valued participants. The petulantly refused to meet the 2% for over two decades and made us pick up the bill to provide them their defense for them. All the while they’ve adopted strategically self defeating energy and industrial policy making the continental powers dependent on Russia for their energy needs as they’ve shuttered (or taxed to death) their own energy production.
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Without the US they could still have a united front, though obviously not as strong, as coordinated, etc. And we would also lose a tremendous amount as well. Having Europe descend into a hodgepodge of smaller alliances and us having to go at it onesie twosie to try to maintain some semblance of force projection would be far more difficult.

There is a wide gulf between making sure our NATO allies live up to their expectations as defense partners and downplaying what they have done with us in the past and offer in the future as a military alliance. Lessons have certainly been learned by everyone about relying on certain energy producing nations and methods, but again, to throw out the baby with the bathwater feels as you said, petulant.
 
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IrishinSyria

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NDVirginia19 said:
Ukraine is showing us that NATO is not necessary to stop Russia’s military, and the past three years of NATO’s inability to contribute any useful forces to stop Houthi’s harassment of shipping and denial of bases and airspace for our war with Iran proves that they would be worthless in conflict against China (if not outright detrimental)

NATO was developed to be a counter to Soviet invasion of Europe, and I think it’s outlived its use. The EU can defend itself and we can work up bilateral agreements for basing as we desire in Europe.
Click to expand...
I don’t know the fact that the Ukraine war is happening in Ukraine and not Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, or Estonia seems to me pretty compelling proof that there’s still value to NATO.
 
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