Tommy Rees - Offensive Coordinator

[Irish4life]

Rees is awful, we will see if Minchey pans out. But the fact that we accept an offense not ranked in the top 47 is amazing. Rees is responsible for all of it, QB, play calling etc..

His 2 offenses with real, living breathing QBs were both in the top 20 in OFEI (which is an opponent and garbage time adjusted stat). FWIW.

 

[ND03]

Rees is awful, we will see if Minchey pans out. But the fact that we accept an offense not ranked in the top 47 is amazing. Rees is responsible for all of it, QB, play calling etc..

Would be nice for you to have some stakes in the ground for 2023 that would make you change your mind.

I’ll start - I will sour on Reed if in 2023
1) The offensive line Isn’t ready to block the plays called in Week 0
2) He has any off field /student scandals
3) The offense does not improve by 15% from 2022 on explosive plays (>20 yards)
4) we lose more than 2 games where the defense holds opponent to 24 or less

 

[NDMatt91]

I think the biggest criticisms are his ability to evaluate and develop QB's. In his 3 seasons as OC, his QB's were Ian Book, Jack Coan, and Tyler Buchner/Drew Pyne. Book was entering his 3rd season as a starter, Coan was a grad transfer who was already developed at Wisconsin, and Buchner/Pyne were players he recruited. Heck, it took him 6 years as a ND coach to have a QB he was the primary recruiter for win a game as a starter at ND. That's not a particularly great look.

ND Offensive rankings with Tommy Rees as OC
2020: 33.4 PPG (30th), 448.5 YPG (26th)
2021: 35.2 PPG (19th), 426.2 YPG (45th)
2022: 30.7 PPG (52nd), 382.7 YPG (73rd)

If they bring in a quality grad transfer QB that has already been developed, which I suspect they will, I think he'll do a quality job. If they somehow strike out and are left with Buchner/Angeli then I don't see how people can be all that optimistic.

 

[Dale]

Points per game and yards per game both leave out adjustments for tempo, opponent and garbage time. I don’t think posting those for 2020 and 2021 make the point you think if actually using discernment when looking at them.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

Would be nice for you to have some stakes in the ground for 2023 that would make you change your mind.

I’ll start - I will sour on Reed if in 2023
1) The offensive line Isn’t ready to block the plays called in Week 0
2) He has any off field /student scandals
3) The offense does not improve by 15% from 2022 on explosive plays (>20 yards)
4) we lose more than 2 games where the defense holds opponent to 24 or less

I will convert to a Rees tolerant if I see this:
1. More diverse playbook, I should not be able to predict the play pre-snap on a consistent basis. If a team overloads in blitz ( Navy game) show the abilty to adjust, not keep doing the same bad offense.
2. Halftime adjustments! Show me that you can actually tweak an offense mid-game.
3. Recruit and develop- He has two good QB's, show me that he can develop
4. consistency

 

[ND03]

I will convert to a Rees tolerant if I see this:
1. More diverse playbook, I should not be able to predict the play pre-snap on a consistent basis. If a team overloads in blitz ( Navy game) show the abilty to adjust, not keep doing the same bad offense.
2. Halftime adjustments! Show me that you can actually tweak an offense mid-game.
3. Recruit and develop- He has two good QB's, show me that he can develop
4. consistency

Thanks for indulging.
All for 2 & 3; I do think 1 has more to do with being a devoted fan. It’s a college playbook, if you’re watching any team week after week/ year after year; you’re gonna know the plays; curious other opinions on that

 

[stlnd01]

I think the biggest criticisms are his ability to evaluate and develop QB's. In his 3 seasons as OC, his QB's were Ian Book, Jack Coan, and Tyler Buchner/Drew Pyne. Book was entering his 3rd season as a starter, Coan was a grad transfer who was already developed at Wisconsin, and Buchner/Pyne were players he recruited. Heck, it took him 6 years as a ND coach to have a QB he was the primary recruiter for win a game as a starter at ND. That's not a particularly great look.

I don't entirely disagree. But an alternative reading of these same facts is that Rees, as QB coach, developed a three-year starter who was a different coach's recruit. Not one of "his guys." Then went and landed an experienced/good fit grad transfer in '21, and then in '22 lost his chosen starting QB to injury in the second game of the year and salvaged the season by scheming his ass off to help a physically-deficient clipboard holder win 8 out of 10 games.

Also I think we're in an era where QB, for better/worse, is increasingly a plug-and-play position. if we somehow land Sam Hartman for '23 will it be not a "great look" that Rees didn't recruit him out of high school?

Edit: Wait. I just saw we may actually be landing Hartman? Terrible look for Tommy.

 

[NDMatt91]

Also I think we're in an era where QB, for better/worse, is increasingly a plug-and-play position. if we somehow land Sam Hartman for '23 will it be not a "great look" that Rees didn't recruit him out of high school?

Of course not. You plug in a guy who is already developed because of the state of the QB room. Combination of blown evaluations, QB's on the roster not developing, or a young guy (Minchey) who likely isn't ready. Same reasons why they had to bring in Jack Coan. If Kelly didn't leave for LSU he almost certainly would've brought in another grad transfer this year.

 

[Irishdrunk]

Points per game and yards per game both leave out adjustments for tempo, opponent and garbage time. I don’t think posting those for 2020 and 2021 make the point you think if actually using discernment when looking at them.

For me its the totality of the play calling, Dale. Total garbage.

 

[ND03]

Of course not. You plug in a guy who is already developed because of the state of the QB room. Combination of blown evaluations, QB's on the roster not developing, or a young guy (Minchey) who likely isn't ready. Same reasons why they had to bring in Jack Coan. If Kelly didn't leave for LSU he almost certainly would've brought in another grad transfer this year.

So if a guy “who is already developed” interviews with a bunch of OCs and decides he likes Tommy the best, Tommy is a bad OC?

 

[NDMatt91]

So if a guy “who is already developed” interviews with a bunch of OCs and decides he likes Tommy the best, Tommy is a bad OC?

No. I think you're missing my point.

 

[ND03]

No. I think you're missing my point.

I get that you are still giving bad marks for QB development, but how can you not see that this is a mark in his favor

 

[irishff1014]

Of course not. You plug in a guy who is already developed because of the state of the QB room. Combination of blown evaluations, QB's on the roster not developing, or a young guy (Minchey) who likely isn't ready. Same reasons why they had to bring in Jack Coan. If Kelly didn't leave for LSU he almost certainly would've brought in another grad transfer this year.

If Kelly would have helped recruit quality QB’s we would have needed transfers.

 

[Dale]

For me its the totality of the play calling, Dale. Total garbage.

Totally wrong. If that’s your #1 fault with him, youre not paying attention.

 

[FWIrish4]

I will convert to a Rees tolerant if I see this:
1. More diverse playbook, I should not be able to predict the play pre-snap on a consistent basis. If a team overloads in blitz ( Navy game) show the abilty to adjust, not keep doing the same bad offense.
2. Halftime adjustments! Show me that you can actually tweak an offense mid-game.
3. Recruit and develop- He has two good QB's, show me that he can develop
4. consistency

I think your #1 point is actually quite the opposite.

Your Navy example is a prime example of adjustments, but the lack of execution in the 2nd half by the QB. They ran 0 blitz in the 1st half and estime scored untouched out of the backfield.

Also, how much more diverse do you want to be? We won the Clemson game by running it down their throat and moved the ball with ease throwing it around the field against USC. I think he generally does a pretty good job game planning to what is available for the offense.

I get the complaint early in the season, as we did not have a great OL and massive inexperience at WR that we didn’t lean heavy play action and RPO though.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

I think your #1 point is actually quite the opposite.

Your Navy example is a prime example of adjustments, but the lack of execution in the 2nd half by the QB. They ran 0 blitz in the 1st half and estime scored untouched out of the backfield.

Also, how much more diverse do you want to be? We won the Clemson game by running it down their throat and moved the ball with ease throwing it around the field against USC. I think he generally does a pretty good job game planning to what is available for the offense.

I get the complaint early in the season, as we did not have a great OL and massive inexperience at WR that we didn’t lean heavy play action and RPO though.

Disagree. But I will not spend to much energy right now on attacking (this is really light for me) him, he gets another year. My powder will remain dry until then.

 

[Fbolt]

I tend to agree with the play calling. You can call the best plays however poor QB play will render play calling moot - which sums up this past season. IMO, it's about primarily QB development. He is still young and if he can develop and adapt in game, I can be happy.

 

[FOTY977]

So, ND landed: a top QB recruit, the highest rated RB recruit in a decade, 4 talented WRs, another good OL class, and another good TE prospect. How do we feel about Rees as a recruiter now that the 23 class is signed?

Good class. I'll believe he's turned over a new leaf when I play Warren late this summer if the staff says they haven't seen him at all during the evaluation & quiet periods. Can't find him anymore on the USGA database so I'm guessing he's playing under a pseudonym (proof positive coaches read these boards as I know a few posters in addition to me have commented on his activity...and sub-10 handicap which takes a good amount of time to keep up ) Will always believe a coach who is a good (and active) golfer is a major red flag.

 

[NDMatt91]

I get that you are still giving bad marks for QB development, but how can you not see that this is a mark in his favor

Again, you're missing my point.

 

[NDMatt91]

If Kelly would have helped recruit quality QB’s we would have needed transfers.

Absolutely. Add him to the list. Same with Del for the abomination that was the WR room. Thankfully, we have Freeman and Del is no longer here.

 

[Grahambo]

I tend to agree with the play calling. You can call the best plays however poor QB play will render play calling moot - which sums up this past season. IMO, it's about primarily QB development. He is still young and if he can develop and adapt in game, I can be happy.

There were a solid number of big plays that we missed because of Pyne’s limitations in arm strength and decision making. Rees is an above average OC with plenty of room to grow. ND could do much worse then him.

 

[ND03]

Again, you're missing my point.

Your point is you dog Tommy for what you perceive as lack of QB development. Nothing will change your mind about that until a QB he has recruited wins the heisman…

My point is that is not the only job of an OC or the only way to get higher level QB play in the game today. And if high level transfers choose to play for him, it’s not because he is an idiot and can’t teach them anything about playing QB.

They are different skills, but both have value

And you are so blinded w rage about QB development, you can’t concede the W if we get Hartman

 

[Fbolt]

Oh, I saw it. Players running open and no ball thrown. The over reliance on Mayer. I didn't see arm strength limitations. It seemed all mental.

Hope he can show the fanbase something during the bowl game.

 

[NDMatt91]

Your point is you dog Tommy for what you perceive as lack of QB development. Nothing will change your mind about that until a QB he has recruited wins the heisman…

My point was that they've targeted grad transfers in 2 out of the last 3 years due to a combination of blown evaluations, QB's on the roster not developing, or young talent not being ready. That's not limited to ND or the QB position. For example, Bama has been bringing in WR transfers the last 2 seasons for similar reasons. They've blown evaluations at the WR position and multiple younger WR's weren't developed or quite ready for prominent roles. Heck, we saw how bad their WR's looked in the Natty against UGA when Williams and Metchie were both out.

That last sentence is just nonsense. I've never said that. Also, I'd suggest looking at the statistics. It took him until his 6th year for a QB that he was the primary recruiter for (per 247) to win a game as a starter at ND. That ain't good, regardless of the position or the school you're at.

And you are so blinded w rage about QB development, you can’t concede the W if we get Hartman

Can you please show me where I've said that? I'm pretty sure I've said I'd gladly take him and that he's proven.

 

[ND03]

Of course not. You plug in a guy who is already developed because of the state of the QB room. Combination of blown evaluations, QB's on the roster not developing, or a young guy (Minchey) who likely isn't ready. Same reasons why they had to bring in Jack Coan. If Kelly didn't leave for LSU he almost certainly would've brought in another grad transfer this year.

Maybe there are too many negatives here. But as I read you, you literally said in this post that landing Hartman is still “not a great look” for Rees

 

[NDMatt91]

Maybe there are too many negatives here. But as I read you, you literally said in this post that landing Hartman is still “not a great look” for Rees

Can you please show me where I said where bringing in Hartman wouldn't be a great look?

 

[Dale]

you literally said in this post that landing Hartman is still “not a great look” for Rees

It’s his thing. He “compliments” Rees when he does thing well but it’s usually backhanded.

 

[NDMatt91]

It’s his thing. He “compliments” Rees when he does thing well but it’s usually backhanded.

Dale, do you know how to read? I said "of course not" when asked if bringing in Hartman would not be a good look.

 

[stlnd01]

My point was that they've targeted grad transfers in 2 out of the last 3 years due to a combination of blown evaluations, QB's on the roster not developing, or young talent not being ready. That's not limited to ND or the QB position. For example, Bama has been bringing in WR transfers the last 2 seasons for similar reasons. They've blown evaluations at the WR position and multiple younger WR's weren't developed or quite ready for prominent roles. Heck, we saw how bad their WR's looked in the Natty against UGA when Williams and Metchie were both out.

The only real blown evaluation that I see was Phil. He was supposed to be the guy after Book, and could have been a multi-year starter for us. That didn't pan out. Clark and Pyne were never expected to be QB1s (it's a failure of recruiting that we took them back-to-back, but recruiting's not what we're talking about here). Then Buchner got hurt before we ever got a chance to see what he was last year. Expecting Angeli or Minchey to walk in and start as true freshmen is expecting too much (of any true freshman).

What happened with our QB room this year took years of mistakes and mishaps. Some of that's on Rees (and BK and Chip Long). Some of it's random bad luck. With Minchey and Carr on their way, and hopefully a quality grad transfer to compete with a healthy Buchner in '23, things are looking up.

 

[Dale]

I don't entirely disagree. But an alternative reading of these same facts is that Rees, as QB coach, developed a three-year starter who was a different coach's recruit. Not one of "his guys." Then went and landed an experienced/good fit grad transfer in '21, and then in '22 lost his chosen starting QB to injury in the second game of the year and salvaged the season by scheming his ass off to help a physically-deficient clipboard holder win 8 out of 10 games.

Also I think we're in an era where QB, for better/worse, is increasingly a plug-and-play position. if we somehow land Sam Hartman for '23 will it be not a "great look" that Rees didn't recruit him out of high school?

Edit: Wait. I just saw we may actually be landing Hartman? Terrible look for Tommy.

Of course not. You plug in a guy who is already developed because of the state of the QB room. Combination of blown evaluations, QB's on the roster not developing, or a young guy (Minchey) who likely isn't ready. Same reasons why they had to bring in Jack Coan. If Kelly didn't leave for LSU he almost certainly would've brought in another grad transfer this year.

My point was that they've targeted grad transfers in 2 out of the last 3 years due to a combination of blown evaluations, QB's on the roster not developing, or young talent not being ready. That's not limited to ND or the QB position. For example, Bama has been bringing in WR transfers the last 2 seasons for similar reasons. They've blown evaluations at the WR position and multiple younger WR's weren't developed or quite ready for prominent roles. Heck, we saw how bad their WR's looked in the Natty against UGA when Williams and Metchie were both out.

That last sentence is just nonsense. I've never said that. Also, I'd suggest looking at the statistics. It took him until his 6th year for a QB that he was the primary recruiter for (per 247) to win a game as a starter at ND. That ain't good, regardless of the position or the school you're at.

Can you please show me where I've said that? I'm pretty sure I've said I'd gladly take him and that he's proven.

Dale, do you know how to read?

Yes I do. Here are your posts. When pressed on taking Hartman, you instantly resort to that’s not my point, we’ve had to take grad transfers in 2 of the last 3 years. The state of the QB room is blown evaluations. So yes I and others no how to read. You like taking Hartman, but can’t say one without blurting out your issues still. You did the same thing when they landed Minchey and Carr. Credit him but I still want him fired and he sucks at evaluating. Blind squirrel remember. It’s exactly what I said it is. You “compliment” his successes but can’t actually ever just leave it without a caveat.

Now you’ll say that’s not the point. But it is what it is. You want him fired. You wanted Long fired. You’ll want the next guy fired. And the next and the next.