Tight End

[WhoDeyIrish]

Does anybody else wish we had another tight end that was worth a darn after Rudolph. Because I think if we had another one that could catch the ball we could actually benefit from running more play action and I think it would help out our running game a lot. I know we were expecting something from Ragone but he has 0 catches this season. I would love to be able to split Tate and Floyd wide, with Rudolph and another TE and maybe even have a 3rd receiver to get rid of the FB and be able to run a lot of play action. If we had a another TE who we could get some productivity from it would help out a lot. Not saying our offense is bad obviously I'd say we are a top 10 team, but we could be even more dynamic than we already are if we could utilize 2 TE's in a passing game. The tight end position absolutely destroyed us against USC. Just some thoughts and something I had been thinking about for a couple days now. Agree or disagree, doesn't bother me.

 

[jason_h537]

i am surprised Ragone has not become involved. Wish Fauria was still on the team, i love seeing Cali kids at ND

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

i am surprised Ragone has not become involved. Wish Fauria was still on the team, i love seeing Cali kids at ND

Baffles me as well that Ragone hasn't become more involved. I wish Fauria was still on the team as well, I thought he would have contributed in this offense.

 

[GOLDENISTHYTATE]

Ragone hasn't seen the field too much this season, but the kid has all the tangibles, just needs the opportunity to show it. Eifert is having season-ending back surgery and there is no way Golic is seeing the field yet.

Welch comes from the same school as Rudolph and I can't wait to get him on campus.

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

Ragone hasn't seen the field too much this season, but the kid has all the tangibles, just needs the opportunity to show it. Eifert is having season-ending back surgery and there is no way Golic is seeing the field yet.

Welch comes from the same school as Rudolph and I can't wait to get him on campus.

I think Welch is going to be more of the blocking TE personally. Yeah I think he should be a decent TE. Don't think he will be great though by any means. I live in Dayton, OH which is just 45 minutes North of Cincinnati so I know whats up with the Cincy HS players as well. Hence the name WhodeyIrish.

 

[irishfan]

Ragone hasn't seen the field too much this season, but the kid has all the tangibles, just needs the opportunity to show it. Eifert is having season-ending back surgery and there is no way Golic is seeing the field yet.

Welch comes from the same school as Rudolph and I can't wait to get him on campus.

Ragone's out there a lot, just in pass protection. But definitely not as a receiving threat.

 

[CuerVo0220]

I remember reading an article having a statement from CW stating that Ragone had an opportunity to be part of the passing game during one of their games but he just didn't put up the results. In my opinion, he never will if you never give him another opportunity. I was in the Navy on the Aviation side and there was a story about a pilot who had a malfunction with his aircraft and it crashed. Fortunately, the pilot survived. The cause of the accident was the airman responsible for fueling the aircraft put in the wrong fuel type. The officer marched over to airman with a scorn look on his face, pointed to airman and said, "the next I need someone to fuel my aircraft in had better be you, because I know you'll never make that mistake again" and he walked away. The airman was at first afraid, but after that moment he was more determined to prove the officer right and be mistake free. The point is, sometimes instead of criticizing the kids or telling them "you screwed up, you're done" why not tell them you trust them to do better next time and give them another chance. That's just my opinion.

 

[BGIF]

... but we could be even more dynamic than we already are if we could utilize 2 TE's in a passing game. The tight end position absolutely destroyed us against USC. Just some thoughts and something ...

The TE position didn't destroy ND against Southern Cal, on the contrary, keeping Rudolph and Ragone in as BLOCKERS because the OLine couldn't contain Southern Cal's 4 man pass rush is what gave Clausen the time to find his receivers. Had the 5 man OLine handled the 3 and 4 man rush, the TEs could have ventured downfield more often.

I haven't seen PT for the whole season only through UW but at that point, Rudolph had 151 minutes of PT and Ragone 57. Eric Olsen lead the team with 157 minutes so Rudolph has played almost every down and Ragone had played about 1/3 of the time. During that time I only recall 2 passes thrown to Ragone both incompletions and both catchable if I recall correctly.

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

The TE position didn't destroy ND against Southern Cal, on the contrary, keeping Rudolph and Ragone in as BLOCKERS because the OLine couldn't contain Southern Cal's 4 man pass rush is what gave Clausen the time to find his receivers. Had the 5 man OLine handled the 3 and 4 man rush, the TEs could have ventured downfield more often.

I haven't seen PT for the whole season only through UW but at that point, Rudolph had 151 minutes of PT and Ragone 57. Eric Olsen lead the team with 157 minutes so Rudolph has played almost every down and Ragone had played about 1/3 of the time. During that time I only recall 2 passes thrown to Ragone both incompletions and both catchable if I recall correctly.

I wasn't saying that our Te's killed us I was talking about their TE's. They absolutely killed us. If we would have kept 5 players in to block it might have helped but if our front 5 can't block 4 or even 3 long enough for us to make a throw they shouldn't be playing in my opinion. We needed Rudolph to perform in that game.

 

[JefMaj]

The Eifert things scares me - surgery on bulging discs? I know people my age (50's) that don't want that because it can go many ways. Wish I knew more.

 

[BGIF]

I wasn't saying that our Te's killed us I was talking about their TE's. They absolutely killed us. If we would have kept 5 players in to block it might have helped but if our front 5 can't block 4 or even 3 long enough for us to make a throw they shouldn't be playing in my opinion. We needed Rudolph to perform in that game.

You did say "destroy us". My misread. Mea culpa. I agree we did need Rudolph (and/or Ragone) as an effective receiver. We might have run delays after the TE initially blocked a man but I don't recall seeing that. It seemed more like the Holtz days when the TEs were 6th and 7th OLs (but without the domination).

IF we had blocked with 5, Clausen might have left the game on a stretcher.

Keep in mind Southern Cal's DLine is one of the best in the nation, if not the best. The Southern Cal D was only allowing 8 points/game. We scored 27. They had given up 2 rushing TDs and no Passing TDs in 5 games. ND scored 2 on the ground, 2 in the air had a 3rd one ruled OB, and was knocking on the door when the game ended.

On Defense, ND held McKnight and company to 121 yds on the ground USC's 2nd lowest rushing total for the season, only 3 more yds than OSU gave up.

The difference was their TEs receiving yardage.

 

[BGIF]

The Eifert things scares me - surgery on bulging discs? I know people my age (50's) that don't want that because it can go many ways. Wish I knew more.

Eifert had a disc problem in high school. I recall posting about it in his recruiting thread. Try there for background. As I recall they tried "rest". He stopped lifting. Apparently more was needed.

 

[GoIrish41]

Does anybody else wish we had another tight end that was worth a darn after Rudolph. Because I think if we had another one that could catch the ball we could actually benefit from running more play action and I think it would help out our running game a lot. I know we were expecting something from Ragone but he has 0 catches this season. I would love to be able to split Tate (1) and Floyd (2) wide, with Rudolph (3) and another TE (4) and maybe even have a 3rd receiver (5) to get rid of the FB and be able to run a lot of play action (RB=6). (plus 5 linemen and the QB = 12)

This would be awesome if we could get away with it.

 

[donjuan]

They cancelled that surgery for Eifert. Getting through to the the cervical spine is no joke and involves going through the neck, underneath the chin, in order to save the muscles that go up the back of your neck. They use a laser to trim down the bulging disks and then often they use fusion to complete it... But apparently Eifert was told that he didn't need this operation or any other.

 

[Guest]

Two good TEs allows you to run the 2TE set. The first benefit is a salty running game. The secondary benefit is you can also throw downfield in that set with athletic TEs, and the opposing LBs can't possibly play it both ways.

It's a good pro set and would give the offense a nice little change of pace in situations like USC when their DLine are getting free. You can mash them with 2 TEs and then hit them with a nice 20 yard toss up the middle. That generally slows down the opposing rush and makes them think twice about just going after the QB.

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

Does anybody else wish we had another tight end that was worth a darn after Rudolph. Because I think if we had another one that could catch the ball we could actually benefit from running more play action and I think it would help out our running game a lot. I know we were expecting something from Ragone but he has 0 catches this season. I would love to be able to split Tate (1) and Floyd (2) wide, with Rudolph (3) and another TE (4) and maybe even have a 3rd receiver (5) to get rid of the FB and be able to run a lot of play action (RB=6). (plus 5 linemen and the QB = 12)

This would be awesome if we could get away with it.

I just caught this mistake as well...What I meant was 1 TE with Rudolph split as the 3rd receiver. So that would be 5 OL, 2 TES, 2 WR, 1 QB, 1 RB. Understand? Sorry I mistyped it. But like I said I think we would benefit a bunch. And about the TE'S for USC. It was 3rd and 1 when they absolutely killed us. We really need to cut back on the blitzing, I thought our secondary would be good enough, but we just don't have the safety's to run as many blitzs as we do.

 

[GoIrish41]

Does anybody else wish we had another tight end that was worth a darn after Rudolph. Because I think if we had another one that could catch the ball we could actually benefit from running more play action and I think it would help out our running game a lot. I know we were expecting something from Ragone but he has 0 catches this season. I would love to be able to split Tate (1) and Floyd (2) wide, with Rudolph (3) and another TE (4) and maybe even have a 3rd receiver (5) to get rid of the FB and be able to run a lot of play action (RB=6). (plus 5 linemen and the QB = 12)

I just caught this mistake as well...What I meant was 1 TE with Rudolph split as the 3rd receiver. So that would be 5 OL, 2 TES, 2 WR, 1 QB, 1 RB. Understand? Sorry I mistyped it. But like I said I think we would benefit a bunch. And about the TE'S for USC. It was 3rd and 1 when they absolutely killed us. We really need to cut back on the blitzing, I thought our secondary would be good enough, but we just don't have the safety's to run as many blitzs as we do.

That's just me being a smart-ass ... pay no attention.

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

That's just me being a smart-ass ... pay no attention.

I would have done the same thing, so it doesn't bother me a tad. You had the right, because I sounded like a dumb shit.

 

[BGIF]

While Ragone has yet to show this season that he can catch a pass, the problem isn't TE receiving. It's been the need to have the TE's stay in to help with the pass rush. Think back to Carlson. Same thing. Since Young was a freshman, TEs have often been kept in to help out with pass rush. Not a another knock on Young but reality.

Especially since Floyd went down, defensive coordinators have recognized that the best way to defend against Rudolph as a receiver is making the Offensive Coordinator keep him in the backfield for pass protection. Some do it with rushing additional defenders, Southern Cal had the luxury of only sending 4.

And without jumping on the OLine too heavily, Jimmy's lack of mobility contributes to pass protection problems. With a steel plate in his shoe, Weis doesn't have the luxury of rolling him out like Barkely or passing off a waggle. The defenders know exactly where Jimmy will be positioned 3 seconds after the snap. They could bullrush to that spot with their heads down and still make contact.

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

While Ragone has yet to show this season that he can catch a pass, the problem isn't TE receiving. It's been the need to have the TE's stay in to help with the pass rush. Think back to Carlson. Same thing. Since Young was a freshman, TEs have often been kept in to help out with pass rush. Not a another knock on Young but reality.

Especially since Floyd went down, defensive coordinators have recognized that the best way to defend against Rudolph as a receiver is making the Offensive Coordinator keep him in the backfield for pass protection. Some do it with rushing additional defenders, Southern Cal had the luxury of only sending 4.

And without jumping on the OLine too heavily, Jimmy's lack of mobility contributes to pass protection problems. With a steel plate in his shoe, Weis doesn't have the luxury of rolling him out like Barkely or passing off a waggle. The defenders know exactly where Jimmy will be positioned 3 seconds after the snap. They could bullrush to that spot with their heads down and still make contact.

All very good points, and an educated post. You know your shit and everything makes a lot of sense. But I'm just saying, we could get some mismatches down field on Linebackers thats all. It would help out a ton.

 

[BGIF]

... But I'm just saying, we could get some mismatches down field on Linebackers thats all. It would help out a ton.

Thank you. I agree if Jimmy gets the time. Considering how many they were dropping back I though releasing Rudolph or Ragone on delayed drag would be open. Don't recall if that was tried. I haven't rewatched this game yet.

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

Thank you. I agree if Jimmy gets the time. Considering how many they were dropping back I though releasing Rudolph or Ragone on delayed drag would be open. Don't recall if that was tried. I haven't rewatched this game yet.

I watched it Monday again for the first time...It really bothered me. I think the biggest play on the last possession was a drop by Goodman for a first down, it was a first down play. If I'm not mistaken we ended up getting to forth down after that, but I could be wrong. But him dropping that ball was huge, wasn't the best throw but he should have caught it. Blocked XP, and no attempt at a FG earlier. Hell it could have been a 3 point game on the last drive. Other thing, we really like to blitz heavy on 3rd and short and USC exploited that with the playaction.

 

[kmoose]

Originally Posted by WhoDeyIrish
Does anybody else wish we had another tight end that was worth a darn after Rudolph. Because I think if we had another one that could catch the ball we could actually benefit from running more play action and I think it would help out our running game a lot. I know we were expecting something from Ragone but he has 0 catches this season. I would love to be able to split Tate (1) and Floyd (2) wide, with Rudolph (3) and another TE (4) and maybe even have a 3rd receiver (5) to get rid of the FB and be able to run a lot of play action (RB=6). (plus 5 linemen and the QB = 12)

This would be awesome if we could get away with it.

I checked, and the PAC-10 has agreed to ban these types of plays. Sorry

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

I checked, and the PAC-10 has agreed to ban these types of plays. Sorry

Didnt you read I already replied to this and fixed it..

 

[kmoose]

I checked, and the PAC-10 has agreed to ban these types of plays. Sorry

Didnt you read I already replied to this and fixed it..

*chuckles* Sorry, WhoDey. That wasn't a "shot" at you. It was a (apparently too) vague reference to Pete Carroll's whine about the fake FG.

 

[irishtrain]

Losing Fauria busted me in the mouth-he's a stud and would have been a player here. Hope he does well at ucla.

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

*chuckles* Sorry, WhoDey. That wasn't a "shot" at you. It was a (apparently too) vague reference to Pete Carroll's whine about the fake FG.

Carroll is a douche...I can't stand that asshole. He whines about everything..