The Running Game

[IrishFan93]

Just wanted to get everyone's opinion on the importance of the running game this year. Yes we all know that Brady and crew will put up great numbers in the air but i honestly think that this years success offensively will come down to how good we can run the ball on a consistent basis. Teams are going to stack the D-back field with 5+ men all the time to take away Brady and the Shark so Darius and the O-Line are going to have to take care of buisness from the get go. I am confident that this will happen but just wanted some input on what people think about the running game this year. Still think James Aldridge will factor in sometime this season when he learns the system.....too much talent to leave on the bench in my opinon. Thoughts???

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

Just wanted to get everyone's opinion on the importance of the running game this year. Yes we all know that Brady and crew will put up great numbers in the air but i honestly think that this years success offensively will come down to how good we can run the ball on a consistent basis. Teams are going to stack the D-back field with 5+ men all the time to take away Brady and the Shark so Darius and the O-Line are going to have to take care of buisness from the get go. I am confident that this will happen but just wanted some input on what people think about the running game this year. Still think James Aldridge will factor in sometime this season when he learns the system.....too much talent to leave on the bench in my opinon. Thoughts???

I don't expect Walker to be much different from last year... so I think the main difference between the two seasons will be whether Aldridge or Prince can step up. Whether that happens is anyone's guess. However, the initial indication from the spring game is that you shouldn't expect Aldridge to carry many responsibilities.

I hope Thomas gets a lot more carries. He proved himself last season.

 

[NDXUFan]

I am sure that CW will have the answers to these questions in the fall.

NDXUFan

 

[leppycole]

Here are two things:
1: ND kinda abandoned the HB screen mid year. Not that they were ineffective running it, they just did not have it in the playbook. It was very effective against Pitt, BYU, and Stanford. I would also like to see more delays - which hurt USC.

2. Travis Thomas is developing into a Rickey Watters type back. If you watch tape, he picks a hole about 4-5 steps after the hand off and commits. This is a great disadvantage for teams preparing for the Irish. Walker is as unpredictable as can be and will stop on a dime and redirect his motion as he sees fit. He makes LB's slow down and worst of all think. This makes him elusive and hard to guage. When Thomas comes in and hits a hole at full speed LB's are still on thier heels from Walker - Advantage: Thomas.

I am sure CW realizes that teams will think Quinn will attempt 30-35 passes a game. I also hope opposing teams will under estimate Rhema and his ability. PSU will be in for a big surprise if they think they can put Justin King on either the Shark or Mcnight and eliminate an option for Quinn. I am curious to see who in the reserves will step up as a 3rd WR option. Hord looks good, but is there a prize fighter waiting in the ranks to show his ability? Boy did Willingham not know his whole arsenal!

 

[LuckoftheIrish86]

TT will be getting alot of carries, more than we anticipate I can see Weis splitting carries 60/40 in favor of Walker.

 

[Fitzgerald]

60/40 would be a waste of Walker. He's a stud, and keeps getting better. He's the quietest stud running back in the country, and because he doesn't break them for 80 yards, ND fans tend to not know how good he is. He's much more feared and respected by opposing fans than by ND fans, in my experience. 70/30.

That's not a knock on Thomas, by the way, who did wonderfully last season. But the way to get the best out of both of them is to split things much as they were last year. I haven't seen Aldridge at all and so don't know how he'll be used, or if at all. And I don't know about the FB situation. I can't see Scwhapp being suddenly replaced by the freshman from IN, but if it happened, the freshman (whose name escapes me) would presumably get more carries than would Schwapp in the same spot, because the freshman's more of a running fullback.

 

[tgolden]

I think Schwapp used to get quite a few carries in HS although I could be wrong. So I think he could be a decent running fullback.

I also think, at least for now, Thomas has clearly established himself as the #2 back over Aldridge. He and Walker could make a great 1-2 punch.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

1: ND kinda abandoned the HB screen mid year. Not that they were ineffective running it, they just did not have it in the playbook. It was very effective against Pitt, BYU, and Stanford. I would also like to see more delays - which hurt USC.

Most of that had to do with the personell on the defenses we were playing; if we had tried that against Ohio State for instance, I would hate to be Walker!

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

60/40 would be a waste of Walker. He's a stud, and keeps getting better. He's the quietest stud running back in the country, and because he doesn't break them for 80 yards, ND fans tend to not know how good he is. He's much more feared and respected by opposing fans than by ND fans, in my experience. 70/30.

Stud is being pretty generous. He's pretty much an average back. Tressell proved that right quick... Walker keeps doing the High School shimmy...about 2 steps before he gets tagged.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the kid and even his family...but he is NOT a break away runner...nor does he really make people miss.

We need to get a back in there that is fast...maybe like Thomas...probably like Aldridge.

However, none of our opponents last year were really afraid of Walker...

I am hoping he steps it up a notch so he can continue to play with the big boys. If he does not improve from last year, he will be seeing less and less time with the rock...until finally Thomas or Aldridge are #1.

 

[scooper]

He's the quietest stud running back in the country, and because he doesn't break them for 80 yards, ND fans tend to not know how good he is. He's much more feared and respected by opposing fans than by ND fans, in my experience. 70/30.

I agree with this post. You don't have to be a home run hitter to be a very good back.

He's pretty much an average back. Tressell proved that right quick

Tressell didn't prove anything. Walker was actually having a good game when the ball was essentially taken from him. He was finding holes on the draws and getting good chunks of yardage. He scored three TD's that game.

 

[jiggafini19]

Walker is a workhorse and is very smart. He will have a fine year and will begin to approach Autry Denson's career record.

T2 gives Charlie a nice toy to play with. Walker, while not a game breaker, tries to make the first guys miss. T2 runs straight ahead, in between the tackles. Good depth to have.

Schwapp is going to be strong, much better than his freshman year. I think his blocking is going to be a sight to see. He isn't as versitile as RPN was or Luke Schmidt will be, but he's a true fullback in the throw back sense of the position. Asaph in Jigga-ese means "warrior."

They ran quite a few screens during the spring game and I liked what I saw. I don't take much from the spring game because the play calling was pretty bland, which was on purpose I'm sure, but I noticed they did a pretty good job with it.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Tressell didn't prove anything. Walker was actually having a good game when the ball was essentially taken from him. He was finding holes on the draws and getting good chunks of yardage. He scored three TD's that game.

Weis used him when possible. If you go back and look at the tape, Tressell made some specific adjustments to contain Walker. It's not like Weis gives up on what works...

Walker is a good back, he's a solid 3-star... However, the problem he runs into is that he cannot effectively turn a corner and head for daylight. He gets chased down by guys bigger than him. That limits the offenses ability to string the field out horizontally and vertically. The opposing defenses will know that they don't need to stack the box to stop him.

That's why we need someone who is faster and more nimble...someone who can threaten to stretch the field, turn a corner, and take off... A guy like Julius Jones.

 

[Fitzgerald]

Walker outplayed Brady Quinn and Jeff S in the Fiesta Bowl. He and Stovall were about it, on offense. He also won the Stanford game - so not only is he good, but he's clutch. He's been clutch, and good, since his first game against Michigan. It's sad to see him continue to find less respect among ND fans than among fans of other schools, most of whom can't understand why we don't think he's a stud.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Walker outplayed Brady Quinn and Jeff S in the Fiesta Bowl. He and Stovall were about it, on offense. He also won the Stanford game - so not only is he good, but he's clutch. He's been clutch, and good, since his first game against Michigan. It's sad to see him continue to find less respect among ND fans than among fans of other schools, most of whom can't understand why we don't think he's a stud.

In the Fiesta Bowl he did great on the couple of scripted plays that Weis called in...but he is simply not a break away runner that we need. I am not saying he is bad or stinks or anything like that... I am simply saying he plays like the 3-star he is.

I hope Aldridge plays as well as he is billed...

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Walker outplayed Brady Quinn and Jeff S in the Fiesta Bowl. He and Stovall were about it, on offense. He also won the Stanford game - so not only is he good, but he's clutch. He's been clutch, and good, since his first game against Michigan. It's sad to see him continue to find less respect among ND fans than among fans of other schools, most of whom can't understand why we don't think he's a stud.

By the way, how did he win at Stanford? He had a good game, but how did he win it? He got the final TD...which of course was set up by Samardzjia's two catches and Stovall's catch.

Here is the final drive:
Notre Dame at 1:37 ND STAN
1st and 10 at ND 20 Brady Quinn pass complete to Jeff Samardzija for 30 yards to the 50 yard line for a 1ST down out-of-bounds.

1st and 10 at STAN 50 Brady Quinn pass complete to Jeff Samardzija for 17 yards to the Stanf 33 for a 1ST down.

1st and 10 at STAN 33 Brady Quinn rush for 3 yards to the Stanf 30 out-of-bounds.

2nd and 7 at STAN 30 Brady Quinn pass complete to Maurice Stovall for 20 yards to the Stanf 10 for a 1ST down, Stanford penalty pass interference on Wopamo Osaisai declined.

1st and Goal at STAN 10 Darius Walker rush for 4 yards to the Stanf 6 out-of-bounds.

2nd and Goal at STAN 6 Darius Walker rush for 6 yards for a TOUCHDOWN. 36 31

Two-point conversion attempt, Darius Walker rush GOOD. 38 31

 

[Fitzgerald]

He did more than any other single Irish player to win the Stanford game - that better?

And your dismissal of his performance against Ohio State is ludicrous. Why not say the same for Quinn, all year? Why not say that Quinn was only as good as the plays Weis called? Because it would be ludicrous.

Walker, going into this year, is generally regarded as one of the top running backs in the country.

 

[kickerbg31]

I really can see Darius Walker as one of those backs that is going to have a very successful career in college without ever making it in the NFL because he doesn't have the "measurables" that teams look for in the draft. I am perfectly content with Darius averaging 4-5 yards a carry and breaking one now and again for 20 yards. Walker is a great back for what Charlie asks him to do...give defenses a big enough scare to keep them honest. No one expected us to be able to run on Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl and the first drive was Walker basically ramming it down their throat.

That being said, I would like to see Darius drop the patented "Unnecessary Spin Move."

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

He did more than any other single Irish player to win the Stanford game - that better?

And your dismissal of his performance against Ohio State is ludicrous. Why not say the same for Quinn, all year? Why not say that Quinn was only as good as the plays Weis called? Because it would be ludicrous.

Walker, going into this year, is generally regarded as one of the top running backs in the country.

I would love to see evidence of anyone considering him better than an average back. And let's not have it be an Irish Fan site. He simply does not have the speed or cuts to be a big time back. If he improves a lot, then he has a shot at it.

As for play calling... Quinn makes things happen with his decision making. When Walker decides to deviate from the plan at all, he gets hammered. He's not fast and his vision is average.

I am not saying he's bad...I am simply saying he is no better than a "Ryan Grant" type of back.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I really can see Darius Walker as one of those backs that is going to have a very successful career in college without ever making it in the NFL because he doesn't have the "measurables" that teams look for in the draft. I am perfectly content with Darius averaging 4-5 yards a carry and breaking one now and again for 20 yards. Walker is a great back for what Charlie asks him to do...give defenses a big enough scare to keep them honest. No one expected us to be able to run on Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl and the first drive was Walker basically ramming it down their throat.

That being said, I would like to see Darius drop the patented "Unnecessary Spin Move."

I would not say he scares defenses...I would say that he at least prompts them to put 4 D guys on the line to keep him from running up the middle. But if you watch the Ohio State game again you will see that once they made an adjustment and put a blocker in the middle, Walker was neutralized. He was slower than the LBs at OSU and was unable to turn a corner with them chasing him...ouch!

I too would like to see him stop with the spin...I would also like to see him drop the silly "shake and bake" move he had in HS. No one bites on it in college.

Frankly, if he would just commit to a headlong run, I think he could up his avg by 1 extra yard per carry.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

He did more than any other single Irish player to win the Stanford game - that better?

No...not better. I simply disagree. Samardzija put up more yards in some critical situations (like the last drive). I would give the game ball to him.

David Grimes also played an unhearalded role with 4 kick off returns for 97 yards! That's the way to set the team up for success.

 

[Fitzgerald]

I would love to see evidence of anyone considering him better than an average back. And let's not have it be an Irish Fan site.

CBS Sportsline had him as the 15th best running back at the end of last season - most of the guys ahead of him are in the NFL now. He'll be one of the top 10 or so backs in NCAA this coming season, and if he keeps improving, and plays his senior year, he'll finish as one of the top few backs in the country. This is talking purely as a college player. I don't know his prospects as a pro, and don't care. But as a college player he's much better than average, and it doesn't take an Irish bias to make that evident. It's simply a matter of numbers and performance.

As for play calling... Quinn makes things happen with his decision making. When Walker decides to deviate from the plan at all, he gets hammered. He's not fast and his vision is average.

This could not be any more incorrect than it is. His entire game is his vision, and his ability to make things happen with his patience, ie his decision making. He's an inventive runner. He doesn't run at designed holes like Thomas, he waits to see how the play actually goes and then adjusts accordingly. Now you either like that style of runner or you don't (many Irish fans don't) but to say he has no vision and that he never deviates from the plan is simply incorrect, as that's what his entire game consists of.

I am not saying he's bad...I am simply saying he is no better than a "Ryan Grant" type of back.

But he played in the same backfield with Grant, when Grant was a senior and Walker was just a freshman, and here's how they ran at those points in their respective careers:

Grant - 127 carries, 515 yds, 4.1 avg, 5 tds
Walker - 185 carries, 786 yds, 4.2 avg, 7 tds

Walker was already better than Grant, the senior, as a freshman, or at worst he was "as good as" Grant. Here's the more important reason why the comparison's not fair. Here are Grant's numbers.

(soph) 02 - 261 carries 1085 yds 4.2 avg 9 tds 9 catches 22 yards
(jun) 03 - 143 carries 510 yds 3.6 avg 3 tds 9 catches 64 yards
(sen) 04 - 127 carries 515 yds 4.1 avg 5 tds 6 catches 51 yards

That's a player who started out good, not great, and got progressively worse, and also older so that as more was expected of him, he actually gave less than he'd given at the start - a disaster of a player (sorry Ryan). Now compare Walker's career arc so far.

(fresh) 04 - 185 carries 786 yds 4.2 avg 7 tds 10 catches 74 yds 0 td
(soph) 05 - 253 carries 1196 yds 4.7 avg 9 tds 43 catches 351 yds 2 td

How is there any comparison between these two players? Walker came in as good as Grant was at his best. He came in so good, in fact, that he won Grant's job when Grant was a senior and Walker a freshman. And then, more importantly, he, who had come into ND better than Grant had ever been, improved significantly in his sophomore season in every category. If he continues his upward trend, look out. If he plateaus, he's a good running back. If he regresses, he'll get benched. But as of now, there's nothing in those numbers to merit his being compared to Ryan Grant.

 

[jiggafini19]

he won Grant's job when Grant was a senior and Walker a freshman.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ryan Grant miss most of the start of 2004 because he was hurt? I don't think I'd go so far as to say that Walker won Grant's job. If anything, Travis Thomas LOST it against BYU. This is all past tense anyway, but it's unfair to say a freshmen beat out a senior if there was an injury involved in the decision on who was getting reps and carries.

Grant was back to getting the bulk of the carries by the end of that year.

 

[Fitzgerald]

But look what he did with them.

I liked Ryan Grant but he was a Willingham kind of player. And yes he had injuries but the numbers are what they are, and injuries are part of the player too. People complain about Walker going out of bounds, but if it saves him from getting injured...

 

[guff]

Is LOVEMYIRISH related to Richduck? They are both from Oregon and both use tortured logic.

 

[scooper]

He was putting up a good fight until he criticized DW's vision. Wow. That is not only his strength, it is some of the best vision for a RB in college football. I'm not sure what axe this guy has to grind, but I hope he's getting is sharp so he can quit.

 

[jiggafini19]

But look what he did with them.

I liked Ryan Grant but he was a Willingham kind of player. And yes he had injuries but the numbers are what they are, and injuries are part of the player too. People complain about Walker going out of bounds, but if it saves him from getting injured...

You said that Walker won the job from Grant. That's inaccurate. Grant was injured and Walker didn't even play against BYU in the opener. When Grant was healthy, he was starting again. Injuries are part of the game, hence the reason Walker got his opportunity. When Grant came back, however, they were both getting carries. The numbers were what they were because Grant wasn't playing.

Wouldn't Walker be a Willingham kind of player, as that's who recruited him?

 

[Fitzgerald]

The yards per carry were what they were because Grant wasn't playing? The career numbers don't bear that out.

Frankly, Walker did win the job from Grant, and if there had been a competent coaching staff in place, it would have happened.

And Willingham recruited Quinn, too, and Zibby, both of whom, like Walker, and Stovall (a Davie recruit?) are Weis kind of players. Grant played without confidence, seemingly, and certainly inspired no confidence. In that way he was a Willingham kind of player. You can still find Willingham kind of players on the team, mostly in the secondary.


*edit*
Stovall is a good example. He was the consummate Willingham kind of player - until Weis showed up. Before then he'd been a slow, overrated disappointment with remarkably bad hands. A little confidence, and voila. A steal as a 3rd round pick.

 

[jiggafini19]

Frankly, Walker did win the job from Grant, and if there had been a competent coaching staff in place, it would have happened.

You have to explain this sentence to me. It sounds like you say Walker won the job from Grant, then contradict that. I'm confused.

I can't understand how Walker beat out Grant when both did not get a single carry against BYU.

What am I missing?

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ryan Grant miss most of the start of 2004 because he was hurt? I don't think I'd go so far as to say that Walker won Grant's job. If anything, Travis Thomas LOST it against BYU. This is all past tense anyway, but it's unfair to say a freshmen beat out a senior if there was an injury involved in the decision on who was getting reps and carries.

Grant was back to getting the bulk of the carries by the end of that year.

Yep, Grant was injured...

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

CBS Sportsline had him as the 15th best running back at the end of last season - most of the guys ahead of him are in the NFL now. He'll be one of the top 10 or so backs in NCAA this coming season, and if he keeps improving, and plays his senior year, he'll finish as one of the top few backs in the country. This is talking purely as a college player. I don't know his prospects as a pro, and don't care. But as a college player he's much better than average, and it doesn't take an Irish bias to make that evident. It's simply a matter of numbers and performance.

If he impoves, I agree he will become a good back...but as it stands he will not be going to the NFL if he does not kick it up a notch. And that's very telling.

He looks to me like Julius Jones did in his Soph year. Good, but he did not have that edge.

Then JJ left for a year and came back as a stud. If DW can improve his quickness he has a shot at that...

This could not be any more incorrect than it is. His entire game is his vision, and his ability to make things happen with his patience, ie his decision making. He's an inventive runner. He doesn't run at designed holes like Thomas, he waits to see how the play actually goes and then adjusts accordingly. Now you either like that style of runner or you don't (many Irish fans don't) but to say he has no vision and that he never deviates from the plan is simply incorrect, as that's what his entire game consists of.

Vision is no good when you are pulling a High School level shake and bake move that only gets you wrapped up by a LB.

Here is a clear distinction between TOP players and AVG players.
2003
Jones,Julius 229att 1341yds 73 for loss 1268net yds 5.5avg/att 61longest 105.7yds/gm
Grant,Ryan 143att 567 yds 57 for loss 510 net yds 3.6avg/att 46longest 42.5yds/gm

Now that's a BIG difference.

Take a look at Walker's stats...he simply cannot find a break away run. You can dismiss that all you want, but the fact is he is not a dynamic back. He's a workhorse. He will get you short yardage when you need it. He will not cause the defensive backfield to worry about him busting through a hole. Our opponents can remain confident that he will be caught before he goes far.

That's a problem.

But he played in the same backfield with Grant, when Grant was a senior and Walker was just a freshman, and here's how they ran at those points in their respective careers:

Grant - 127 carries, 515 yds, 4.1 avg, 5 tds
Walker - 185 carries, 786 yds, 4.2 avg, 7 tds

Walker was already better than Grant, the senior, as a freshman, or at worst he was "as good as" Grant. Here's the more important reason why the comparison's not fair. Here are Grant's numbers.

(soph) 02 - 261 carries 1085 yds 4.2 avg 9 tds 9 catches 22 yards
(jun) 03 - 143 carries 510 yds 3.6 avg 3 tds 9 catches 64 yards
(sen) 04 - 127 carries 515 yds 4.1 avg 5 tds 6 catches 51 yards

That's a player who started out good, not great, and got progressively worse, and also older so that as more was expected of him, he actually gave less than he'd given at the start - a disaster of a player (sorry Ryan). Now compare Walker's career arc so far.

(fresh) 04 - 185 carries 786 yds 4.2 avg 7 tds 10 catches 74 yds 0 td
(soph) 05 - 253 carries 1196 yds 4.7 avg 9 tds 43 catches 351 yds 2 td

So let's revist the nature of the offense and his stats. In 2004, Grant is playing through injuries and Walker keeps up with him.

In 2005 we actually have an offense. A good one. And Walker's stats barely went up. What would be the main cause of that? Him or the system?

I would argue him. Simply put, we had a passing game that dwarfed our previous years and the field has finally been stretched...and in that improvement in system Walker picks up .5 yds/carry?

Cmon...

How is there any comparison between these two players? Walker came in as good as Grant was at his best. He came in so good, in fact, that he won Grant's job when Grant was a senior and Walker a freshman. And then, more importantly, he, who had come into ND better than Grant had ever been, improved significantly in his sophomore season in every category. If he continues his upward trend, look out. If he plateaus, he's a good running back. If he regresses, he'll get benched. But as of now, there's nothing in those numbers to merit his being compared to Ryan Grant.

Grant was injured... Walker stepped in. He did just as well as grant. And since that day he has marginally improved, despite the fact that the offense went off like a rocket.

Walker was/is/will-be a 3 star back. That is great for most teams, but we need more. We need a player that has the potential to rip off a 50+ yard run if the other defense does not watch out.

If he does not drastically improve he will sit out behind Aldridge.