The Cold Hard Truth

[realitycheck]

-- Weis played Brady Quinn too much in 2006 to try and pad his stats and win him the Heisman

-- Because of this, he squandered a great opportunity to develop a QB for 2007, a season he supposedly warned his close friends about when he took the job.

-- He didn't turn down Mitch Mustain because of Jones or Frazer, he turned down Mustain to try and maintain good standing with Jimmy Clausen

-- Weis felt that landing Clausen would open the floodgates for elite recruits in 2007. That's why Clausen announced the weekend of the spring game, and that's why Clausen's announcement was such a big circus. Weis thought the celebrity of Clausen would bring in Marc Tyler, Arrelious Benn, Marvin Austin, Greg Little, and more. As we saw, those plans didn't come to fruition, instead leaving ND with a 2007 class that was much smaller than initially envisioned.

-- It's clear that Weis promised Clausen's camp that he would hold off on playing D Jones and Z Frazer in 2006, that way Clausen (arriving in the spring) would get equal opportunity to land the starting job in 2007.

--Weis threw D Jones under the bus after Georgia Tech in 2007. Granted, Jones is very immature and only made the situation worse, but if a few fumbles is all it took to get Jones yanked in 2007, why is Clausen allowed to throw pick after pick without even the threat of getting benched? Was Jones's game against GT in 2007 really that much worse than Clausen against BC in 2008?

-- Because Clausen was essentially handed the starting job over their friends (Sharpley, Frazer, Jones) the upperclassmen harbored resentment towards Jimmy. Sullivan's attitude towards Clausen is widely known, but it wasn't just him on the offensive line. This rift between the older and younger guys killed team chemistry.

Is this the only reason ND sucked in 2007, and is struggling in 08? Absolutely not. The OLine still bears the majority of blame for the team's struggles. Additionally, the switch to the 3-4 defense made 2007 a rough transition year on defense.

But the ironic legacy of Charlie Weis's tenure at ND may end up being that the one player Weis pegged as the savior of his program ended up being the player that got him fired

 

[NDOM]

lol i love it!

 

[ARALOU]

So you are saying that the O-line and Jimmy are at odds. I can see it, I certainly see no protective tendencies from the o-line. That sucks, a busted locker room can kill a team. How close are you to this information?

 

[ACamp1900]

So you are saying that the O-line and Jimmy are at odds. I can see it, I certainly see no protective tendencies from the o-line. That sucks, a busted locker room can kill a team. How close are you to this information?

old news actually, more last year's core than this years

 

[kmoose]

So you are saying that the O-line and Jimmy are at odds. I can see it, I certainly see no protective tendencies from the o-line. That sucks, a busted locker room can kill a team. How close are you to this information?

News is from mars, this guy is from venus.

 

[realitycheck]

old news actually, more last year's core than this years

It wasn't just Sullivan who disliked Clausen, only the players still on the OLine from last year don't tank plays on purpose a la Sullivan

 

[ARALOU]

News is from mars, this guy is from venus.

Hey, it sounded good. I just asked for a source. I had heard a little about that last year but I thought it was just one or two guys. I am not from venus or mars I was just curious.

 

[kmoose]

Hey, it sounded good. I just asked for a source. I had heard a little about that last year but I thought it was just one or two guys. I am not from venus or mars I was just curious.

No, ARALOU..........that was in response to your question about how close to this information mr. realitycheck is.

 

[ARALOU]

No, ARALOU..........that was in response to your question about how close to this information mr. realitycheck is.

Oh ok, now I feel like a dumbass. Sorry I did not read it correctly.

 

[phgreek]

-- Weis played Brady Quinn too much in 2006 to try and pad his stats and win him the Heisman

-- Because of this, he squandered a great opportunity to develop a QB for 2007, a season he supposedly warned his close friends about when he took the job.

-- He didn't turn down Mitch Mustain because of Jones or Frazer, he turned down Mustain to try and maintain good standing with Jimmy Clausen

-- Weis felt that landing Clausen would open the floodgates for elite recruits in 2007. That's why Clausen announced the weekend of the spring game, and that's why Clausen's announcement was such a big circus. Weis thought the celebrity of Clausen would bring in Marc Tyler, Arrelious Benn, Marvin Austin, Greg Little, and more. As we saw, those plans didn't come to fruition, instead leaving ND with a 2007 class that was much smaller than initially envisioned.

-- It's clear that Weis promised Clausen's camp that he would hold off on playing D Jones and Z Frazer in 2006, that way Clausen (arriving in the spring) would get equal opportunity to land the starting job in 2007.

--Weis threw D Jones under the bus after Georgia Tech in 2007. Granted, Jones is very immature and only made the situation worse, but if a few fumbles is all it took to get Jones yanked in 2007, why is Clausen allowed to throw pick after pick without even the threat of getting benched? Was Jones's game against GT in 2007 really that much worse than Clausen against BC in 2008?

-- Because Clausen was essentially handed the starting job over their friends (Sharpley, Frazer, Jones) the upperclassmen harbored resentment towards Jimmy. Sullivan's attitude towards Clausen is widely known, but it wasn't just him on the offensive line. This rift between the older and younger guys killed team chemistry.

Is this the only reason ND sucked in 2007, and is struggling in 08? Absolutely not. The OLine still bears the majority of blame for the team's struggles. Additionally, the switch to the 3-4 defense made 2007 a rough transition year on defense.

But the ironic legacy of Charlie Weis's tenure at ND may end up being that the one player Weis pegged as the savior of his program ended up being the player that got him fired

after a 6 hour drive, with fighting kids and barking dogs...this is precisely the shit I needed to read...

If it were true it does explain a ton of the performances i've seen

The part that doesn't jive...these guys would be jeopardizing a chance to play on Sunday...

but hey...stranger things have happened I guess.

If this is true, and continues in any part this year...I'm rethinking Charlie.

The worst part is, if Charlie were aggressively doing the things you say, not sure I'm pissed at him. As well, if the on field issues are linked to this...not sure I want him gone. Based on what you say...seems like he was making decisive moves to make the program into what he thinks is required to be an elite program again...that is his job rather any of us, or the players like how he does (within reason). If allegiances between players overrun the coach...those players have a character issue and should be driven from the program.

So who has the support data on this issue?

 

[88rice9]

If this is true, why wouldn't the offensive line be willing to run block? Teams have been rushing four and dropping seven into coverage against us, and we still cannot run the ball. Does the offensive line dislike the running backs as well?

 

[realitycheck]

after a 6 hour drive, with fighting kids and barking dogs...this is precisely the shit I needed to read...

If it were true it does explain a ton of the performances i've seen

The part that doesn't jive...these guys would be jeopardizing a chance to play on Sunday...

but hey...stranger things have happened I guess.

If this is true, and continues in any part this year...I'm rethinking Charlie.

The worst part is, if Charlie were aggressively doing the things you say, not sure I'm pissed at him. As well, if the on field issues are linked to this...not sure I want him gone. Based on what you say...seems like he was making decisive moves to make the program into what he thinks is required to be an elite program again...that is his job rather any of us, or the players like how he does (within reason). If allegiances between players overrun the coach...those players have a character issue and should be driven from the program.

So who has the support data on this issue?

I don't understand why Sullivan would jeopardize his draft status by intentionally air-mailing shotgun snaps, but I guess that's a question he'll have to answer one day.

As you say, it isn't necessarily an indictment on Charlie that he tried to go for the home run. However, it was a high risk, high reward situation, and it didn't appear he had a backup plan in place

 

[Irish Rogue]

It wasn't just Sullivan who disliked Clausen, only the players still on the OLine from last year don't tank plays on purpose a la Sullivan

Sullivan did make some "strange mistakes" as a 3+ year starting center.

 

[realitycheck]

If this is true, why wouldn't the offensive line be willing to run block? Teams have been rushing four and dropping seven into coverage against us, and we still cannot run the ball. Does the offensive line dislike the running backs as well?

As far as I can tell, the only lineman guilty of intentionally tanking blocks was Sullivan. The OLine underperforms because it's poorly coached above all else, however the relationship between an OLine and the QB is crucial, and if any of the starting linemen harbor resentment towards Clausen, that surely can't help at all

 

[NDMontana]

-- Weis played Brady Quinn too much in 2006 to try and pad his stats and win him the Heisman

-- Because of this, he squandered a great opportunity to develop a QB for 2007, a season he supposedly warned his close friends about when he took the job.

You're right about this. Evan Sharpley had all the makings of a Heisman Trophy candidate. He just never got a fair shake.

LYAO. I'm laughing so hard that YOUR ass is actually falling off.

 

[realitycheck]

You're right about this. Evan Sharpley had all the makings of a Heisman Trophy candidate. He just never got a fair shake.

LYAO. I'm laughing so hard that YOUR ass is actually falling off.

Who said it had to be Sharpley? It could've been Jones (running the REAL offense instead of that pathetic spread Weis tried to implement for GT) or Frazer

Plus if Weis wasn't so infatuated with Clausen, it could've been Mitch Mustain

laugh all you want at Sharpley, but at least he has topped 100 yards vs. USC, unlike Jimmy

 

[NDMontana]

Who said it had to be Sharpley? It could've been Jones (running the REAL offense instead of that pathetic spread Weis tried to implement for GT) or Frazer

Plus if Weis wasn't so infatuated with Clausen, it could've been Mitch Mustain

laugh all you want at Sharpley, but at least he has topped 100 yards vs. USC, unlike Jimmy

Frazier didn't have the arm for that offense. If he is so great you'll to let me know how he's doing at Northern Illinois. I didn't see that their name in the FCS playoff bracket.

Mitch Mustain followed his high school coach to Arkansas. What makes you think that:

1. He would have been good
2. That he would've come to ND.

 

[realitycheck]

Frazier didn't have the arm for that offense. If he is so great you'll to let me know how he's doing at Northern Illinois. I didn't see that their name in the FCS playoff bracket.

Mitch Mustain followed his high school coach to Arkansas. What makes you think that:

1. He would have been good
2. That he would've come to ND.

Frazer is at Northern Illinois? Huh? Last I checked he plays for UConn. Plus if neither Jones nor Frazer was good enough to QB ND, then that speaks volumes about Weis's ability to evaluate talent.

It was widely reported Mitch Mustain wanted to come to ND, but Weis told him there wasn't room.