The Bench Press Discussion

[mbeckha]

He only benches 350? Longo will have some work to do if he comes here. That's not a great benchpress for a giant like him at all.

Bench press is over rated!

Ive seen guys in the gym who can bench 500, but can't do anything athletic.

 

[WabashFalcon]

He only benches 350? Longo will have some work to do if he comes here. That's not a great benchpress for a giant like him at all.

Guys with long arms have problems with the bench press. Anthony Munoz was a lifetime 300 bencher. You telling me bench is a huge problem?

If you want an accurate football lift for upper body strength, measure the kid in a hammer press.

 

[mbeckha]

Guys with long arms have problems with the bench press. Anthony Munoz was a lifetime 300 bencher. You telling me bench is a huge problem?

If you want an accurate football lift for upper body strength, measure the kid in a hammer press.

Why is that?

 

[HawaiianIrish]

Clean deadlift and squat those are crucial football lifts. We do a lot of incline press as well.

 

[WabashFalcon]

Why is that?

Ground Based Hammer is a full body explosion. Generates both leg, hip, chest, and arm drive while making the lift. Also, it comes from a good football position. Name one time in a game, other than when you are embarrased, that you are on your back pushing upwards?

As for arms, as you lock out the lift, it puts a lot more strain on the triceps, biceps, and delts. The longer the arms, the longer the lift. Doesn't hurt if one has a massive chest in addition to short, stubby arms.

 

[BGIF]

The Bench Press Discussion

Put it here people NOT in Recruit Profiles.

 

[mbeckha]

Ground Based Hammer is a full body explosion. Generates both leg, hip, chest, and arm drive while making the lift. Also, it comes from a good football position. Name one time in a game, other than when you are embarrased, that you are on your back pushing upwards?

As for arms, as you lock out the lift, it puts a lot more strain on the triceps, biceps, and delts. The longer the arms, the longer the lift. Doesn't hurt if one has a massive chest in addition to short, stubby arms.

Does this lift translate on the field as a football specific motor skill?

 

[Ben E.]

kids with long arms almost always struggle with bench press. why?(fyi,im gator armed lol) from a physics standpoint weight becomes more difficult to control the farther it is from your core giving the individual the sensation that is heavier.

power cleans are by far more effective as it translates into football, especialy with kids thats are mentally weak(most kids today) imo!

 

[mbeckha]

kids with long arms almost always struggle with bench press. why?(fyi,im gator armed lol) from a physics standpoint weight becomes more difficult to control the farther it is from your core giving the individual the sensation that is heavier.

power cleans are by far more effective as it translates into football, especialy with kids thats are mentally weak or that come from upper class back grounds!

Under what law or research study?

 

[Ben E.]

Under what law or research study?

as it pertains to my own experiance as a hs coach in ohio. i understand that some people dont feel the same way and i will add "imo" to my previous post. that said i cant understand how anybody would say that the bench translates more into football than the clean. i am aware there is some muscle recruitment in the bench but not in any way as total body as the clean is. the clean is a total body explosive movemant and most football movemant(blocking/tackling) are total body explosive movemants. there is no spring football in ohio for hs so the clean helps the "video game generation" become a better football player from both a physical and mental toughness aspect(it is more difficult than holding a xbox360 controler) ...imo, of course.

 

[OchoShayneO]

i throw up mad weight

 

[johnnykillz]

Under what law or research study?

You are such a self-proclaimed expert.

What are your qualifications?

May I see a resume'?

How about just a photo with a sign on it saying "Look at how sexy and qualified I am for the ladies Johnnykillz," or maybe "I could make Shawne Merriman cry like a baby Johnnykillz.":ttiwwop: This, of course, can only be imagined with you sounding like an austrian with slightly atrophied juevitos (testicles)...

Then I'd be impressed...

I never played college football. Anyone with any football knowledge knows squats, power cleans, and incline press articulate perfectly to on the field play in football. Power cleans develop explosive movements under strenuous conditions, incline press is the hunched over, not-standing-straight-up pushing movement for first contact between blockers and defenders, and squats strengthen the base all while seasoning the tendons and ligaments to prevent tears and strains.

This is football, not romanian dance movements for the light in the loafer varieties.

Here's a scholarly source for you mbeckha:

Physical Performance Characteristics of American Collegiate... : The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research

A strong correlation through research proved different player abilites based on exercise results given rep and max results. Here is the writer's abstract for the article:

Nineteen American collegiate football programs (NCAA Division I, n = 6; II, n = 7; III, n = 6) were surveyed for athlete (n = 981) performance on 1 RM bench press, 1 RM back squat, 1 RM power clean, vertical jump, and 36.6-meter (40-yard) sprint. Performances were evaluated with regard to NCAA division, position and plying ability (starter or non-starter). Performances (X +/- SD) for the entire sample included: bench press = 136.9 +/- 25.8 kilograms; back squat = 185.2 +/- 35.7 kilograms; power clean = 118.1 +/- 17.7 kilograms; vertical jump = 70.2 +/- 9.1 centimeters; 36.6-meter sprint = 4.92 +/- 0.27 seconds. Significant correlations were observed for most performance tests when compared to division of play (I, II and III) or playing ability. In general, bench press, power clean, 36.6-meter sprint, and vertical jump effectively differentiated between division of play as well as playing abilities, but the back squat was a relatively poor differentiator. The data provides helpful norms for strength and conditioning professionals.

Enjoy.

 

[mbeckha]

as it pertains to my own experiance as a hs coach in ohio. i understand that some people dont feel the same way and i will add "imo" to my previous post. that said i cant understand how anybody would say that the bench translates more into football than the clean. i am aware there is some muscle recruitment in the bench but not in any way as total body as the clean is. the clean is a total body explosive movemant and most football movemant(blocking/tackling) are total body explosive movemants. there is no spring football in ohio for hs so the clean helps the "video game generation" become a better football player from both a physical and mental toughness aspect(it is more difficult than holding a xbox360 controler) ...imo, of course.

Please look up muscle recruitment order, If your intensity is high enough all muscle fibers will be recruited and fatigued. Resulting in a physological adaptation.

Think about maximizing your strength in a limited amount of time, such as a high intensity training that utilizes the overload principle. This will leave you more time to practice real sport specific "total body explosives" than practicing becoming an olympic style lifter that has no correlation with the motor skills utilized on the football field. This is not in my opinion, this is real proven science. I am done posting on these sites about training. I have been disrespected because of my knowledge and I will provide no additional comments. Some will be happy. I will promise you though, no one on here has a grasp of exercise science like I do, and all you could of used me to further your knowledge or ask questions from a professional. You are all Notre Dame fans and that seems like the only thing we have in common. Good luck with your teams.

 

[mbeckha]

You are such a self-proclaimed expert.

What are your qualifications?

May I see a resume'?

How about just a photo with a sign on it saying "Look at how sexy and qualified I am for the ladies Johnnykillz," or maybe "I could make Shawne Merriman cry like a baby Johnnykillz.":ttiwwop: This, of course, can only be imagined with you sounding like an austrian with slightly atrophied juevitos (testicles)...

Then I'd be impressed...

I never played college football. Anyone with any football knowledge knows squats, power cleans, and incline press articulate perfectly to on the field play in football.

Power cleans develop explosive movements under strenuous conditions, incline press is the hunched over, not-standing-straight-up pushing movement for first contact between blockers and defenders, and squats strengthen the base all while seasoning the tendons and ligaments to prevent tears and strains.

This is football, not romanian dance movements for the light in the loafer varieties.

Here's a scholarly source for you mbeckha:

Physical Performance Characteristics of American Collegiate... : The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research

A strong correlation through research proved different player abilites based on exercise results given rep and max results. Here is the writer's abstract for the article:

Nineteen American collegiate football programs (NCAA Division I, n = 6; II, n = 7; III, n = 6) were surveyed for athlete (n = 981) performance on 1 RM bench press, 1 RM back squat, 1 RM power clean, vertical jump, and 36.6-meter (40-yard) sprint. Performances were evaluated with regard to NCAA division, position and plying ability (starter or non-starter). Performances (X +/- SD) for the entire sample included: bench press = 136.9 +/- 25.8 kilograms; back squat = 185.2 +/- 35.7 kilograms; power clean = 118.1 +/- 17.7 kilograms; vertical jump = 70.2 +/- 9.1 centimeters; 36.6-meter sprint = 4.92 +/- 0.27 seconds. Significant correlations were observed for most performance tests when compared to division of play (I, II and III) or playing ability. In general, bench press, power clean, 36.6-meter sprint, and vertical jump effectively differentiated between division of play as well as playing abilities, but the back squat was a relatively poor differentiator. The data provides helpful norms for strength and conditioning professionals.

Enjoy.

Do you really need my qualifications? What I am saying comes from books with proven research. I do not post anything that has not been researched and proven. I might come off arrogant, but read what I'm writing not how i'm writing it.

It does not correlate

Stenuous conditions such as dodging cars while power lifting?

I do appricate the fact that someone did actually go out and find an article to prove their point. I was completely finished with these discussions up until I seen your post. There is a definitly a correlation between the results of the test and the levels of play and playing time. But what does that really prove that we already don't know. All other variables being equal of course they are going to play at a higher level or get more playing time. It have nothing defining the corrlation of actual skill.

 

[Junkhead]

I will promise you though, no one on here has a grasp of exercise science like I do, and all you could of used me to further your knowledge or ask questions from a professional.

Seriously, give it a rest. You don't act like you want to do anything other than talk about how much of an expert you are.

 

[Ben E.]

Please look up muscle recruitment order, If your intensity is high enough all muscle fibers will be recruited and fatigued. Resulting in a physological adaptation.

Think about maximizing your strength in a limited amount of time, such as a high intensity training that utilizes the overload principle. This will leave you more time to practice real sport specific "total body explosives" than practicing becoming an olympic style lifter that has no correlation with the motor skills utilized on the football field. This is not in my opinion, this is real proven science. I am done posting on these sites about training. I have been disrespected because of my knowledge and I will provide no additional comments. Some will be happy. I will promise you though, no one on here has a grasp of exercise science like I do, and all you could of used me to further your knowledge or ask questions from a professional. You are all Notre Dame fans and that seems like the only thing we have in common. Good luck with your teams.

all i can point to is how much more physicaly and mentaly tougher the teams i have coached that cleaned were than those that didnt. some times professional students like you should try stepping out of the class room and into the real world. now take your ball and run off like a child.

 

[mbeckha]

all i can point to is how much more physicaly and mentaly tougher the teams i have coached that cleaned were than those that didnt. some times professional students like you should try stepping out of the class room and into the real world. now take your ball and run off like a child.

Im not sure you have ever brought any meaningful info on the subject. Your the type of guy we tell at a clinic to stand on your head for a couple of hours to be the best, and you would do it cause you are uneducated and never actually been through any real training programs to know any difference.

 

[mbeckha]

Seriously, give it a rest. You don't act like you want to do anything other than talk about how much of an expert you are.

Once again all you are focused on is what I think of me instead of just reading the valueable information that you shouold be discussioning with top professionals in the industry.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

.

 

[Ben E.]

Im not sure you have ever brought any meaningful info on the subject. Your the type of guy we tell at a clinic to stand on your head for a couple of hours to be the best, and you would do it cause you are uneducated and never actually been through any real training programs to know any difference.

and your the type of guy that gets laughed out of a room with REAL football people in it. i am not sure that you have ever done or really known any of the crap that you act like you know. you probably never played the game or you werent very good and this your way of trying to get even for not fitting in. hurry up internet dweeb and search the web for some more work that somebody else did that you can piggy back on.

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

The only time I do a flat bench is with dumbbells. I've always found that using a bar I have problems with my shoulders. I will do incline and some decline though. I feel that the Bench press means absolutely nothing.

 

[mbeckha]

and your the type of guy that gets laughed out of a room with REAL football people in it. i am not sure that you have ever done or really known any of the crap that you act like you know. you probably never played the game or you werent very good and this your way of trying to get even for not fitting in. hurry up internet dweeb and search the web for some more work that somebody else did that you can piggy back on.

You have wasted over two minutes of my life that I will never get back. All future posts by you will be ignored. Great post though, way to add to the topic.

 

[mbeckha]

The only time I do a flat bench is with dumbbells. I've always found that using a bar I have problems with my shoulders. I will do incline and some decline though. I feel that the Bench press means absolutely nothing.

Is it in your front deltoids that is bothering you? Are you doing full range of movement? Where are you gripping the bar?
Do you have complete control of the barbell when during the eccentric phase?

 

[NDinL.A.]

You have wasted over two minutes of my life that I will never get back.

Good, you are now about 153 minutes behind the rest of us who have had to endure your posts...

 

[Ben E.]

Good, you are now about 153 minutes behind the rest of us who have had to endure your posts...

LOL!!!

 

[WabashFalcon]

Good, you are now about 153 minutes behind the rest of us who have had to endure your posts...

Tried to give you reps but I gotta spread it around.

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

Is it in your front deltoids that is bothering you? Are you doing full range of movement? Where are you gripping the bar?
Do you have complete control of the barbell when during the eccentric phase?

No. I don't use the exercise anymore so I don't grip the bar anywhere. I used both wide and smaller grips. My workout schedule is 5 days a week working a different body part each day. Monday Chest and Abs. Tuesday is Back. Wednesday Legs and Abs. Thursday Shoulders. Friday Bi and Tri and Abs.

 

[IrishAddiction]

Any added muscle is not going to hurt, including that from bench press. The type of muscle counts as well, are we building both fast twitch and slow twitch fibers..... in lamines terms, endurance and strength fibers in the muscle itself? Longo has made good points in his article, which someone put in another thread, if we build the front, we must also build the back.

All that being said, as much as weight lifting does play a huge role into the game itself today, nothing, and i mean nothing, can replace mental training. Some kid might bench 500 and squat 800, but if they cant mentally handle the game, they are generally not worth a damn on the field.

BFS..... thats what i was taught. Doesnt mean it transfers mentally though. If a guy is a soft, weak minded individual before a hardcore training program, he will likely still have those weak soft attributes unless they are addressed and corrected. The only difference is he will be a HUGE RIPPED soft and weak individual. The same applys, if the guy is mentally strong and has a hitter mentality, he will just be a bigger faster and stronger hitter, though he had the attributes of hitting before.

 

[bigedefense]

I agree with you beneboy. I coach HS football in MS and our most important lift is the Power Clean. It has helped our players over the past 5 seasons tremendously. I am truly sorry mbecka, I do not have any research paper to show you how much it helped our team, but we went from 8 losing seasons in a row to 5-5 the first year I was there and 36-4 over the next 4 regular seasons. Also, I just got home from a coaching clinic in Biloxi, MS where Alabama's strength coach spoke Thursday night. (It was from 7pm til 7:55pm, thats as specific as I can be). Guess what he said the most important lift HS coaches should focus on????? XXXXXX wrong mbecka! It was the........POwer clean. According to him, this lift is essential. This lift is paramount, according to him, to alabama football. Now, I am just a dumb HS football coach that only has a masters in Health and PE, but please feel free to call and set up a time to tell the very large man how dumb he is and how you can make the team that he works with better. He told everyone at the clinic that they could call or come by and he would talk to them any time that they wanted. Please post when you are going to Tuscaloosa because I am taking a personal day from school and heading to Tuscalossa to see you put this dumb, uneducated man in his proper place. Hell, Saban will probably hire you so he might get over the hump and win a NC. I want to be there to remind him that I was the one that got you there, so maybe he could come off of some of the money that he slides recruits under the table for me, since I, in a way helped him by getting you to go see him. Just dont tell my 2 ex-wives that I got some money because they would want their %14 percent of it. Back to the real world, beneboy, I am sure that you have seen the results from power cleans like me, so, we should write a paper and mbecka could use it like it was all his idea.

 

[BGIF]

I agree with you beneboy. I coach HS football in MS and our most important lift is the Power Clean. It has helped our players over the past 5 seasons tremendously. I am truly sorry mbecka, I do not have any research paper to show you how much it helped our team, but we went from 8 losing seasons in a row to 5-5 the first year I was there and 36-4 over the next 4 regular seasons. Also, I just got home from a coaching clinic in Biloxi, MS where Alabama's strength coach spoke Thursday night. (It was from 7pm til 7:55pm, thats as specific as I can be). Guess what he said the most important lift HS coaches should focus on????? XXXXXX wrong mbecka! It was the........POwer clean. According to him, this lift is essential. This lift is paramount, according to him, to alabama football. Now, I am just a dumb HS football coach that only has a masters in Health and PE, but please feel free to call and set up a time to tell the very large man how dumb he is and how you can make the team that he works with better. He told everyone at the clinic that they could call or come by and he would talk to them any time that they wanted. Please post when you are going to Tuscaloosa because I am taking a personal day from school and heading to Tuscalossa to see you put this dumb, uneducated man in his proper place. Hell, Saban will probably hire you so he might get over the hump and win a NC. I want to be there to remind him that I was the one that got you there, so maybe he could come off of some of the money that he slides recruits under the table for me, since I, in a way helped him by getting you to go see him. Just dont tell my 2 ex-wives that I got some money because they would want their %14 percent of it. Back to the real world, beneboy, I am sure that you have seen the results from power cleans like me, so, we should write a paper and mbecka could use it like it was all his idea.

"ALL IN!"