Terrible Referees

[irishnickname]

I have really taken exception to the quality of refereeing this season. There are so many inconsistencies between crews and replay officals that it seems almost a crap-shoot as to what will transpire during the game. I am not being a homer either, the bad calls and inconsistencies have gone both ways.

For instance, the last play of the first half at today's game. Here is what I found in the NCAA Offical Rule Book:

g. Fouls during or after a touchdown, field goal or try:
1. Personal-foul penalties for fouls by opponents of the scoring team
during a down that ends in a touchdown are penalized on the try or
the succeeding kickoff. The captain of the offended team has the
choice (A.R. 10-2-2-XLIII).

Football at Refs.Org
download the rule book and go to pg. 137

According to my interpretation of this rule and the interpretation I have seen called in a real football game a thousand times before, the touchdown should have counted with the penalty coming on either the point after try or the ensuing kickoff. It also makes intrinsic sense, if a personal foul that occurs during a play is supposed to negate the rest of the play, then the play should be blown dead at that point - ala an offensive false-start call that we see all too often. In my mind this rule makes sense because a personal foul has no effect on the play.

Perhaps one of you out there who is wiser than me can clear this up.

Also, why can't Notre Dame get their own referees to work our home games? I couldn't stand getting homer calls go against us at our own place for my four years at ND and I can't believe that nothing is being done about this obvious disadvantage.

 

[wallym]

I'm definitely in the dark regarding the explanation of Grimes' catch. That was 6 and the catch of the year.

Regarding ND and "their refs", I do not think we have refs as we are independent. Most of the time the home team uses their conference refs against us, and for ND home games it's usually the visiting teams conference refs. It's just part of being independent.

To say that we have a disadvantage and are getting homered is horrible, and please don't be that guy. They refs in the Stanford game were pretty bad, but they were consistently bad for bot teams. Overall, though, I have had no issues with refs.

 

[KamaraPolice]

That Grimes catch was Malcolm Johnson against Air Force all over again. Except Notre Dame lost that game in overtime. Same thing though, touchdown that was called incomplete and then missed field goal.

 

[FrankMA]

I disagree with the equally bad for both teams. They cost ND 14 points directly. They did not cost Stanford any points.
If you are refering to the non-late hit call on the quarterback, that was not that bad a call. It was not a deliberate helmet to helmet hit, the ND d-back was trying to tackle low-and the quarterback slide down late.

 

[Ant4NDIrish]

I have really taken exception to the quality of refereeing this season. There are so many inconsistencies between crews and replay officals that it seems almost a crap-shoot as to what will transpire during the game. I am not being a homer either, the bad calls and inconsistencies have gone both ways.

For instance, the last play of the first half at today's game. Here is what I found in the NCAA Offical Rule Book:

g. Fouls during or after a touchdown, field goal or try:
1. Personal-foul penalties for fouls by opponents of the scoring team
during a down that ends in a touchdown are penalized on the try or
the succeeding kickoff. The captain of the offended team has the
choice (A.R. 10-2-2-XLIII).

Football at Refs.Org
download the rule book and go to pg. 137

According to my interpretation of this rule and the interpretation I have seen called in a real football game a thousand times before, the touchdown should have counted with the penalty coming on either the point after try or the ensuing kickoff. It also makes intrinsic sense, if a personal foul that occurs during a play is supposed to negate the rest of the play, then the play should be blown dead at that point - ala an offensive false-start call that we see all too often. In my mind this rule makes sense because a personal foul has no effect on the play.

Perhaps one of you out there who is wiser than me can clear this up.

Also, why can't Notre Dame get their own referees to work our home games? I couldn't stand getting homer calls go against us at our own place for my four years at ND and I can't believe that nothing is being done about this obvious disadvantage.

The penalty was on Notre Dame.

 

[KamaraPolice]

How about JC getting an off-setting 15 yarder after being headbutted? I guess the ref felt he got what he deserved for talking trash.

 

[kmoose]

The only issue I had with the refereeing was the overturned TD catch by Grimes. Even the announcers, who initially asked the ESPN production booth for multiple replays because they thought the ball might have hit the ground, both agreed that it was without question a good catch. The PAC-10 replay officiating is horrible. See the Oklahoma v. Oregon game, and the non reviewed fumble recovery in the Oregon State v. Washington game a couple of weeks ago. If the PAC-10 isn't careful, they are going to find teams refusing to play in their stadiums, for fear of getting jobbed by the replay officials in a manner that costs them the game.

 

[KamaraPolice]

The only issue I had with the refereeing was the overturned TD catch by Grimes. Even the announcers, who initially asked the ESPN production booth for multiple replays because they thought the ball might have hit the ground, both agreed that it was without question a good catch. The PAC-10 replay officiating is horrible. See the Oklahoma v. Oregon game, and the non reviewed fumble recovery in the Oregon State v. Washington game a couple of weeks ago. If the PAC-10 isn't careful, they are going to find teams refusing to play in their stadiums, for fear of getting jobbed by the replay officials in a manner that costs them the game.

That reminds me of a call they made against ASU when Cal came to visit. The Cal punt returner fumbled the ball, and while the ball was on the ground, the ref blew the play dead. ASU picked up the fumble and returned it for a touchdown. Due to thethe "inadvertent" whistle it should have meant ASU got the ball at the spot of recovery. Instead, they gave the ball back to Cal, even though the whistle came AFTER the fumble. Ignorant.

 

[johnnd05]

Okay - I was looking for confirmation of this, since we were at the game and didn't have TV analysis. The personal foul on Laws looked like an AWFUL call to me - he was at the QB when he was throwing it, and the flag took several seconds to come out. Same for the overruled TD catch by Grimes, which we saw on instant replay and looked like there shouldn't even have been any question.

WAS there any question that these were bad calls? Are we just being homers?

I'm looking for honest analysis here ... let me know your thoughts.

 

[NDOM]

Okay - I was looking for confirmation of this, since we were at the game and didn't have TV analysis. The personal foul on Laws looked like an AWFUL call to me - he was at the QB when he was throwing it, and the flag took several seconds to come out. Same for the overruled TD catch by Grimes, which we saw on instant replay and looked like there shouldn't even have been any question.

WAS there any question that these were bad calls? Are we just being homers?

I'm looking for honest analysis here ... let me know your thoughts.

TERRIBLE CALLS MY FRIEND. THEY WERE HORRIBLE.

 

[Junkhead]

TERRIBLE CALLS MY FRIEND. THEY WERE HORRIBLE.

Agreed. All bad. I'm not sure why but the huge font is amusing.

 

[notredomer23]

wheres buckeyebacker/ant/napoleanbuck when you need em to ask em something

 

[kmoose]

Okay - I was looking for confirmation of this, since we were at the game and didn't have TV analysis. The personal foul on Laws looked like an AWFUL call to me - he was at the QB when he was throwing it, and the flag took several seconds to come out. Same for the overruled TD catch by Grimes, which we saw on instant replay and looked like there shouldn't even have been any question.

WAS there any question that these were bad calls? Are we just being homers?

I'm looking for honest analysis here ... let me know your thoughts.

ESPN only showed ONE replay of the personal foul on Laws. And on that ONE replay, you couldn't really tell how egregious it was. But it did look like Laws pushed the offensive lineman's face into the ground, by kind of "punching" him in the back of the head with his palm. Without any other angle, I can't really say if that was a bad call or not. But the catch by Grimes was an all out jobbing by the replay crew.

 

[GoshenGipper]

TERRIBLE CALLS MY FRIEND. THEY WERE HORRIBLE.

So much so that all the ESPN guys agreed with us, even Mark May!

 

[IrishRamMan10]

i was there...they were even worse in person..... Whole staium booed em on the way to lockerroom at half

 

[NDOM]

Was it just me or did that crowd sound more like an ND crowd? I think we kinda had a bit of an advantage. Way to go west coast DOMERS!

 

[SoCalDomer]

Okay - I was looking for confirmation of this, since we were at the game and didn't have TV analysis. The personal foul on Laws looked like an AWFUL call to me - he was at the QB when he was throwing it, and the flag took several seconds to come out.

During the game discussion, we were all wondering the same thing about the supposed personal foul. The camera showed Laws getting to the QB right as he let go.

But someone said that wasn't the foul they called though. I kept waiting for the announcers or replay to explain/show what the PF call was, but they never did.

So... my analysis isn't very helpful. Sorry.

 

[NDOM]

Agreed. All bad. I'm not sure why but the huge font is amusing.

Sorry junkhead. I have TORRETS SYNDROM

 

[KamaraPolice]

Does this ball look like it doesnt have hands underneath it?

 

[NDOM]

Does this ball look like it doesnt have hands underneath it?

WOW! What a shot! Great find.

 

[johnnd05]

So much so that all the ESPN guys agreed with us, even Mark May!

Wow, really? That's the kind of thing I was looking to hear. I read the AP account on ESPN.com but didn't see any mention of it. At the game we really could not believe our eyes; it was simply unfathomable. My wife almost slapped some woman after the Grimes TD was overturned.

If the PF on Laws wasn't for roughing the passer, then maybe - MAYBE - it was reasonable. The Grimes catch just blows my mind ...

 

[IrishRamMan10]

Wow, really? That's the kind of thing I was looking to hear. I read the AP account on ESPN.com but didn't see any mention of it. At the game we really could not believe our eyes; it was simply unfathomable. My wife almost slapped some woman after the Grimes TD was overturned.

If the PF on Laws wasn't for roughing the passer, then maybe - MAYBE - it was reasonable. The Grimes catch just blows my mind ...

I know John... when they showed the Grimes catch on the Jumbotron I didnt even know why it was being reviewed... I am still clueless on the Lateral play.... Care to fill me in Goshen?? I forgot to DVR the game...

 

[NDOM]

Wow, really? That's the kind of thing I was looking to hear. I read the AP account on ESPN.com but didn't see any mention of it. At the game we really could not believe our eyes; it was simply unfathomable. My wife almost slapped some woman after the Grimes TD was overturned.

If the PF on Laws wasn't for roughing the passer, then maybe - MAYBE - it was reasonable. The Grimes catch just blows my mind ...

I think that Grimes catch that was called back blows all of our minds. How could they overturn that? Helen Keller could even see that catch.

 

[GoshenGipper]

If the PF on Laws wasn't for roughing the passer, then maybe - MAYBE - it was reasonable.

That's the one that May told the refs to keep the flag in their pockets. He said he was all set to make that play his play of the week.

The Grimes catch was the biggest blown replay call I've ever seen. If there is anything that tops it, then the only thin I could think of would be the onside kick at Oregon a few years ago.

 

[SoCalDomer]

If the PF on Laws wasn't for roughing the passer, then maybe - MAYBE - it was reasonable. The Grimes catch just blows my mind ...

Even if it was on another player, personal fouls don't usually have the play called back. Has anyone confirmed whether the refs made the proper call on that one according to the rulebook?

Even if the PF occurred during the run back, it seems to me only holding or illegal blocking should warrant bringing the play back.

 

[GoshenGipper]

I am still clueless on the Lateral play.... Care to fill me in Goshen?? I forgot to DVR the game...

They actually did a very bad job of explaining what happend or even showing replays. As soon as the play happened they started talking about the lateral between Cal and Stanford and broke into clips of that play and at one point started breaking that play down.

 

[NDOM]

Even if it was on another player, personal fouls don't usually have the play called back. Has anyone confirmed whether the refs made the proper call on that one according to the rulebook?

Even if the PF occurred during the run back, it seems to me only holding or illegal blocking should warrant bringing the play back.

They blew the call SoCalDomer! They should NOT have brought that back. That AND the Grimes catch were touchdowns.

 

[GoshenGipper]

Even if it was on another player, personal fouls don't usually have the play called back. Has anyone confirmed whether the refs made the proper call on that one according to the rulebook?

I belive they do. It just usually happens after the play so that's why we don't see it that often. I know leaping into the endzone, or taunting doesn't get called back, but I'm not sure if that's in the same category.

 

[SoCalDomer]

They blew the call SoCalDomer! They should NOT have brought that back. That AND the Grimes catch were touchdowns.

Ok, so I'm not crazy. Well at least not on that point.

I just don't know the rulebook that well, so I wasn't sure if my belief about what fouls can bring plays back was accurate.

 

[NDOM]

Ok, so I'm not crazy. Well at least not on that point.

I just don't know the rulebook that well, so I wasn't sure if my belief about what fouls can bring plays back was accurate.

NO! Youre not crazy. but the damn refs are.