Stanford postgame and post-2023 regular reason thread

[Sea Turtle]

I think it’s both possible that Parker knows more about football than all of us combined but also not nearly as much about football as you’d think the OC of a team with Notre Dame’s aspirations should know…

Maybe. And maybe he gets things figured out. It sounds like he might be back.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Team needs to focus on starting fast and not shitting the bed on the road next year. Not sure what it was but we played like crap on the road.

 

[NDPhilly]

Despite our offensive struggles, ND ends the season tied at 9th in FPI with FSU and LSU.

This is a NY6 caliber team. Disappointing we’ll be playing for a Pop Tarts trophy or whatever.

 

[ColinKSU]

Hey Pete, apologize for telling your subscribers that we were wrong about play action being successful for the offense!

The ND beat is preferable to the fanboy geeks covering Oklahoma and Michigan, but the smugness and disdain for their readers from that crew is at an all-time high.

 

[FWIrish4]

The ND beat is preferable to the fanboy geeks covering Oklahoma and Michigan, but the smugness and disdain for their readers from that crew is at an all-time high.

Agreed. I’ve never submitted questions for a pod before, but I’m really tempted to for Monday.

“From the Wake Forest preview pod (Nov 16th), can we review the pod’s comments about play action and that it wasn’t working nor a cure all? With the play action design intentionally designed to mirror ND’s actual run plays the last two games, it sure seems pretty effective now.”

I know damn well Prister would get his panties in a wad and refuse to say they were wrong and the coaches know more haha.

 

[irishff1014]

So can we finally say Sam Hartman was a giant waste of money and shouldnt play the bowl game?

I would say the this is false. The positive off the field Sam helped us a ton. His press conferences that he can’t wait til he has kids to bring them to ND. That’s a huge positive vibe for us.

His play was good, just wasn’t outstanding like we were sold. Some of that was his ability and some of that was the failure of our offensive game planning.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Despite our offensive struggles, ND ends the season tied at 9th in FPI with FSU and LSU.

This is a NY6 caliber team. Disappointing we’ll be playing for a Pop Tarts trophy or whatever.

Well, its a NY6 caliber Defense, not team...the O just blows.

 

[spoonidentity]

“From the Wake Forest preview pod (Nov 16th), can we review the pod’s comments about play action and that it wasn’t working nor a cure all? With the play action design intentionally designed to mirror ND’s actual run plays the last two games, it sure seems pretty effective now.”

Exactly the point. Jamie at ISD was all over this after the Louisville game. The play action didn't mirror anything ND used for a running play so there was no reason for defenders to bite. So of course the play action numbers look terrible. Context matters and not providing that context is not only disingenuous but also extremely unprofessional via a vis their jobs as journalists. I don't need them to be doom and gloom but also saying that play action wouldn't matter was baffling to me when I heard that on the II pod. Pete and O'Malley were pushing that line, and it was crazy.

For a good example, look at Faison's TD catch, the play action run with the lineman down blocking left froze the safety in the box, #31, just enough that he had no chance to drop back and help the corner who was beaten. Beautiful route but also good play design.

 

[IrishLax]

Well, its a NY6 caliber Defense, not team...the O just blows.

Yup, finished #1 pass efficiency defense and they somehow lost two games to offense malpractice (Louisville and Clemson). In retrospect, especially knowing that they had the Ohio State game "won" for all intents and purposes, this was an 11-1/12-0 style team.

 

[ThePiombino]

Well, its a NY6 caliber Defense, not team...the O just blows.

To be fair, it was the coordinator who blew. Waiting til game #11 before introducing steady PA, pre-snap motion, or any semblance of creativity? Absurd. Even a seasoned, but only "ok" OC would have had us at 11-1 or better. But no, we had to choose the one guy who couldn't cut it a whole season at WVU.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Reaper97]

Well, its a NY6 caliber Defense, not team...the O just blows.

The offense finished top 10 in the nation.
That’s not the definition of “blows.”

The offense let us down at times, but doesn’t blow.
Watch the Iowa vs Nebraska game?
Lowest O/U (24.5) in the history of college over/unders.
And they still went under (13-10).
Those offenses “blow.”

 

[irishtrain]

Ultimately, can't lie and say this season is anything but a disappointment.

ND played 6 teams with a winning record, and went 3-3 against them.

1-2 against the "Big Three" and of the Big Three, two of them ended up 7-5 and 8-4 respectively. This was a very beatable schedule and you still ended up with three losses? Unacceptable.

Freeman needs to get his ass in gear and turn things around.

(Reminds me of Penn State) total waste of a season with New Years day talent-poor game day management-coaches results very similar with both programs. Both guys in over their heads both guys learning on the job (see Franklin first few seasons) -both schools sports philosophy similar-winnings great but not the ultimate goal-join the Ivy League, and I dont like Penn State. We are Penn State- oops I mean Notre Dame. This team was really good!

 

[irishandy]

Stanford Post Game Thoughts:
ND got their revenge from last season.

Regular Season Thoughts:
For the poster(s) who want to complain about Hartman- we beat Duke because of his 4th down conversion, he didn't play his best vs Clemson- but he had a nice rushing TD. He was great for this program and without Hartman ND doesn't win 9 games.

Estime should be the Doak Walker winner

Overall I expected more out of our offense- we've all hashed out the problems

The defense surpassed my expectations- if Golden stays for 2024 that is a huge win

The last few games our defense really got to the QB, the only game they didn't was vs Ohio St., one has to wonder was there offensive holding that wasn't called?

ND ruined Caleb Williams' chance at back-back Heisman

With MF being young, he is still learning, but he gets ND and is the right coach to lead this program.

 

[bumpdaddy]

Agreed. I’ve never submitted questions for a pod before, but I’m really tempted to for Monday.

“From the Wake Forest preview pod (Nov 16th), can we review the pod’s comments about play action and that it wasn’t working nor a cure all? With the play action design intentionally designed to mirror ND’s actual run plays the last two games, it sure seems pretty effective now.”

I know damn well Prister would get his panties in a wad and refuse to say they were wrong and the coaches know more haha.

The II guys and Sampson were in agreement about PA not working for ND but I don't think they were in agreement as to why. Sampson seemed to be putting the failure on Hartman and, therefore, agreed ND was probably wise not to use it as much. O'Malley seemed to be putting the blame on the coaching staff. I don't have the exact quote, but in one of the recent podcasts O'Malley said something like, "Yeah, ND isn't very effective with play action, but every metric shows that PA helps the passing game and every other OC in America from high school to the NFL has figured out a way to use it and make it work in their favor," so he was taking a direct shot at the coaching staff.

 

[FWIrish4]

The II guys and Sampson were in agreement about PA not working for ND but I don't think they were in agreement as to why. Sampson seemed to be putting the failure on Hartman and, therefore, agreed ND was probably wise not to use it as much. O'Malley seemed to be putting the blame on the coaching staff. I don't have the exact quote, but in one of the recent podcasts O'Malley said something like, "Yeah, ND isn't very effective with play action, but every metric shows that PA helps the passing game and every other OC in America from high school to the NFL has figured out a way to use it and make it work in their favor," so he was taking a direct shot at the coaching staff.

Yep. I’m curious of their take of what/who changed.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Yeah it’s sad to think that with basic passing concepts and well design play action ND would’ve been 11-1 at worst.

And willingness to play the best player over someone else…. Craig and faison are clearly top players and were the second they took game action, also it’s never been dj brown. You had all fall camp to get someone else ready to take over knowing you have him in a pinch

 

[PutuporShutup]

Yup, finished #1 pass efficiency defense and they somehow lost two games to offense malpractice (Louisville and Clemson). In retrospect, especially knowing that they had the Ohio State game "won" for all intents and purposes, this was an 11-1/12-0 style team.

I said this pre season(11-1 or better should happen) but never expected the OC to be that bad and freeman maybe taking a step back

 

[goldandblue]

Anywhere I can watch the game?

 

[Terry Jillery]

 

[DillonHall]

LOL who is this?

 

[SeekNDestroy]

LOL who is this?

Former head coach from ‘64-‘74.

 

[DillonHall]

Former head coach from ‘64-‘74.

LOL he passed away a few years ago. So I don't know who's posting under his name. I just think it's kind of weird to use someone else's name like this

 

[SeekNDestroy]

LOL he passed away a few years ago. So I don't know who's posting under his name. I just think it's kind of weird to use someone else's name like this

They have Twixter in the afterlife, bro.

 

[Grahambo]

The II guys and Sampson were in agreement about PA not working for ND but I don't think they were in agreement as to why. Sampson seemed to be putting the failure on Hartman and, therefore, agreed ND was probably wise not to use it as much. O'Malley seemed to be putting the blame on the coaching staff. I don't have the exact quote, but in one of the recent podcasts O'Malley said something like, "Yeah, ND isn't very effective with play action, but every metric shows that PA helps the passing game and every other OC in America from high school to the NFL has figured out a way to use it and make it work in their favor," so he was taking a direct shot at the coaching staff.

And O’Malley would be correct. It takes 5 minutes of research to know the mountain of evidence exists. The best offensive minds in the game utilize PA a lot (motion too).

It’s not just the play call, it’s also how it’s designed. GP’s greatest failure was his play designs. Watch McDaniel, Shanahan, and McVay then watch GP.

 

[DillonHall]

They have Twixter in the afterlife, bro.

Isn't that only if you go to hell?

 

[SeekNDestroy]

Isn't that only if you go to hell?

Good point.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Agreed. I’ve never submitted questions for a pod before, but I’m really tempted to for Monday.

“From the Wake Forest preview pod (Nov 16th), can we review the pod’s comments about play action and that it wasn’t working nor a cure all? With the play action design intentionally designed to mirror ND’s actual run plays the last two games, it sure seems pretty effective now.”

I know damn well Prister would get his panties in a wad and refuse to say they were wrong and the coaches know more haha.

yes he would. Plus, they seem to only take questions from II subscribers for the most part. With rare exception, it’s the same people who get cited as asking questions.

 

[Irish#1]

It was a joy to see Sam under center allowing Estime the opportunity to hit the hole with a full head of steam.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

The turnovers and penalties in Game 12 left me a tad disappointed.

I choose to, however, focus on Estime's performance.

 

[NDohio]

Chris Wilson report on Stanford...​

​

1) If there’s one thing you can say about the Marcus Freeman Era as its second regular season concludes, his teams have been pretty good at bouncing back from adversity in both the micro and macro. Now, again, I’d prefer there to generally just be less adversity to bounce back from but after being loose with the football and finding themselves trailing a bad Stanford team late into the second quarter (another poor start on the road), nobody panicked, leaning on the massive advantages in the trenches to stretch out the lead before the half and then put it well without of reach following the break.

Weird game to cap off a weird season. We’ll try to process the big picture below but I’m really glad that everyone playing their final game for the Irish got a celebratory sendoff like this, a comfortable blowout in an evil place that brings the Legends Trophy back home after last year’s serious misstep. The page is going to immediately turn to the transfer portal and NFL decisions and eventually a bowl, but let’s spend a little bit of time reflecting on the final regular season contest. As always, cannot believe it’s over so fast – feels like we were just in Dublin.

2) Audric Estime. The poor Cardinal back seven, which had to contend with their defensive line being blown to hell, leaving them trying to tackle a runaway bank safe with ballerina feet in space. If that was Estime’s final game in blue and gold, he ends his career setting the single-season rushing touchdown record with 18. I would have very much liked to see Estime get one more series, which would have potentially broken Julius Jones’ single-game record (he finished 24 yards short of tying it) and pushed him into the top 10 on the all-time career rushing list (he finished 20 yards back of George Gipp, which is such a funny thing to write. We’ve been at this for a while, huh?). I also would have liked to have seen him in at the end of the first half when the ball was almost fumbled at the goal line, but let’s focus on celebrating a stellar game, a stellar season and a stellar career from the big guy. Credit to the line, tight ends and receivers for doing such a stellar job blocking.

How lucky are we to have just spent four seasons with Estime and Kyren Williams as the lead backs? There are numerous exciting guys on this roster and in the recruiting pipeline who will end up doing great work but a blessing to see these two backs with different styles and different skillsets flourish.

​

The game plan was pretty much Hand The Ball To Estime, which isn’t a complaint but did leave few touches to go around elsewhere. Both of Chris Tyree’s catches were awesome and I really hope the staff can convince him to come back next year. Tobias Merriweather made a tough third down conversion while Jaden Greathouse and Jordan Faison had fun touchdowns (both off play action, for whatever that is worth at this point). Sam Hartman did not have a clean game — the fumble, the pick and another almost pick in the second quarter — but did enough, particularly on the throw to Greathouse, which brought things full circle to the opener.

Check-plus for going for it on 4th and 1 from the Stanford 38 in the second quarter, particularly after the Cardinal had hit a 56-yarder. The Irish scored on that drive to take a 21-16 lead they would not relinquish.

3) I was annoyed when Stanford hired Troy Taylor because he’s an innovative coach who won a ton at Sacramento State, and you could see flashes of why when he manufactured a few big plays that when combined with Irish errors kept his squad in the game for longer than it should have based on pure talent level. Eventually the lack of horses caught up with him and the Irish front seven terrorized all four quarterbacks who took snaps, totaling nine tackles for loss and 4.5 sacks.

The hyphenated duo at strongside defensive end showed out, with Nana Osafa-Mensah and Javonte Jean-Baptiste making a living in the backfield, while Rylie Mills and Howard Cross continued their recent run of terror. Marist Liufau was active again and J.D. Bertrand had a tackle for loss as well, in addition to the hurry that forced the bad throw on his compatriot Jack Kiser’s interception that flipped the game with Stanford in Irish territory down only five. Jaylen Sneed annihilated a guy for a forced fumble. If memory serves, Thomas Harper tackled a guy by dragging him down by his arms, which was very cool.

Elic Ayomanor was the biggest threat on the Stanford offense, after putting up nearly 300 yards receiving during their USC Eve comeback against Colorado and performing well against both Oregon State and Washington. The Cardinal targeted him 16 times, but he came down with just seven completions for 58 yards, the lid kept on and the efficiency kept low.

While technically a special teams play, Jean-Baptiste’s blocked field goal return was a wonderful cherry on his season, the joy of his teammates celebrating reminding me of MTA’s fumble return against Georgia Tech two years ago. Jean-Baptiste is such a big dude and we had a great angle for his footwork along the sideline, which was really astonishing athleticism, as well as the nasty stiff arm that sent the valiant holder into another universe. It’s sad we only got this one year of him and Harper and we can only pray the portal hit rate on defenders is as good as it was this year going forward because they were such crucial parts of this defense.

​

4) I would say the crowd breakdown in the first quarter was around the 55/45 mark tilted toward Notre Dame. By the middle of the third, many of the Cardinal faithful had departed, leaving it closer to 80/20 or 85/15 as we celebrated Estime and the blocked kick return. My loathing for that stupid marching band knows no limit, but overall there wasn’t much to note about the in-stadium experience. They did play Limp Bizkit’s “Rollin’” at one point, and there was a fun video segment where players tried to blindly guess which Thanksgiving items were in a box.

5) Winning Is Hard Round Up: We take no pleasure in Michigan success but after Ryan Day’s antics surrounding the Notre Dame game earlier this year it’s nice to know he’s in hell following the Buckeyes’ third straight defeat against the Wolverines. Speaking of brutal rivalry losses, Auburn managed to give up a touchdown on a 4th and goal from the 31 to allow Alabama to escape another Iron Bowl on the plains. And Louisville, with an outside shot at the playoff still in front of them, lost at home to a Kentucky team that had been recently leaking oil.

Florida State and Washington both struggled mightily against their in-state foes before prevailing late, while Georgia Tech hung around with the Dawgs all game long in a commendable effort. Oklahoma State needed (another) massive comeback at home against BYU to make the Big 12 title game. North Carolina was 6-0 and ranked No. 10 in the nation but lost four of their last five against FBS teams, getting handled by the 9-3, Top 25 NC State Wolfpack (!!). Kansas State lost a snowy home contest against Iowa State as a touchdown-plus favorite. Indiana blew a fourth quarter lead to Purdue and Tom Allen got fired.

Nebraska intercepted Iowa in a tie game with 31 seconds left and lost in regulation – do you know how hard that is? The Huskers were 5-3 and needed one more win to get to a bowl but lost out. Pitt lost at Duke to finish 3-9. Baylor lost at home to (8-4!) West Virginia to finish 3-9. One week after laying out the Trojans, UCLA got blown out at home by Cal in the final PAC-12 regular season game.

6) We’ve got plenty of time to reflect on the season and the bowl result will add some color to how we feel about it, but I’m a bit flummoxed on how to process what went down. Every win total projection had Notre Dame right around nine, which they hit, but every loss was so annoying and painful, although at least they all came to good teams and there was nothing even approaching the Marshall or Stanford results from last year, a marked improvement. Of the nine wins, only one was close late — the coaching staff should remain very thankful Estime bailed them out of a kick attempt in Durham, because if that had sailed wide it would have raised serious questions — and only two were within a score going into the fourth quarter (Duke and N.C. State).

Was this defense wasted? I lean no, but I’d listen to the argument. The latest SP+ has it as 11th in the nation, so quite good but not the elite of the elite. How many players off of it will be taken before the third day of the coming NFL Draft in April? Any?* (Benjamin Morrison obviously a big exception down the road.) While Al Golden did a good job scheming up cumulative pressure, there was not an elite edge rusher that you tend to find on the best defenses, nor a switchblade linebacker. It was a very good unit that had lapses at tough times (the final drive against Ohio State and in the early going against Clemson), did quite well against good passing games and dominated inferior opponents. I don’t know if it will go down in the history books like we debated earlier this year but it was a delight to watch most of the time.

* I don’t know how accurate this mock draft composite is and obviously things can change via the combine and workouts, but it has Cam Hart going in the fourth as the highest defender.

The offense has moved up to 17th in SP+, which is impressive considering the various issues that have plagued it. With better receiver health, you could make the case it might have approached elite status, but when you combine the injuries on the outside with Hartman’s difficulties on the road and the overall line play being a level below where we thought it might hit, that's a lot of weaknesses to overcome. Would a more experienced offensive coordinator have been able to scheme around those and help elevate Hartman? I think so, and combined with some game management question marks you potentially steal back at least one if not two or all three of the losses, but like the defense this is not a unit dripping with obvious high-round picks outside of the left tackle.

Overall, I would mark the 2023 campaign as a minor disappointment and slightly missed opportunity that had plenty of fun, entertaining high notes along the way. Not anything approaching a disaster, but if you played this season out a hundred times this probably clocks in as a result right around the median or a little below it. As far as Freeman long-term, he’s going to need to iron out whatever issues led to the slow starts on the road and figure out what he wants to do at offensive coordinator, because a poor effort on the road at College Station with a new starting quarterback is going to put the entire 2024 season behind the eight ball.

Curious how you all feel about this particular 9-3. Looking forward to discussing this over the coming weeks as we see just how much roster turnover there is going to be and who the Irish will be facing in a bowl. Really appreciate you all reading over the course of the season.