Sorting Out The QBs

BGIF

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Rivals.com Football Recruiting - Whispers: Sorting out the top quarterbacks



According to Mike Farrell's 5/20 article:
  • Heaps (ND offer) BYU by a Mormon mile. UTN, LSU, CAL, UW trail
  • Hinder (ND offer) CAL is believed to lead UCLA and ND
  • Montana (ND offer) Short list of ALA, UGA, LSU, ND, OSU, SU, UW. Top 4 most likely UGA, ND, OSU, and SU. Decision early summer. Watch SU in the stretch.
  • Thomas favors ASU but a USC or UCLA could change that
  • Hendrix UTN offer competing with UVA's.
  • Scroggins UTN, LSU, UW
  • Bolden PSU, MSU, NW, ORE, LOU
No mention of Bennett, Brennan, Doughty, Kasdorf, Massa, Rees, or Rettig who have been mentioned as undergoing evaluation by ND.



I still think Montana is the most likely of those offered by ND to commit to ND. Some people have noted he might not want to walk in his father's shadow. They forget Joe was buried in ND depth charts. They also have an image of him in college that is not justified. Yes, he's known as "The Comeback Kid" coming off the bench early in his career and sparking 4th quarter rallies as an upperclassman starter.

What they neglect to remember is Joe was a 52% career passer.

His TD to INT ratio is 1:1, 25 TDs: 25 INTs.

If Clausen had those numbers the fans would be burning his dorm room.

Joe was fantastic as a Pro - Super Bowl QB, Pro Bowler, Hall of Fame. But he's not in the College Hall of Fame as he was never a College All-American. Joe's college shadow isn't that long.

Think about those comeback games where Joe was the starter. If he hit 7, 8, or a dozen passes on exciting 4th Q drives, what did he do for the first 3 quarters? Perhaps that explains the need for the comebacks. He was only a 52% CAREER passer. If he was so hot in the comebacks, how cold must he have been for the first 45 minutes of the game? And keep in mind he had guys like Heavens, and Feruson in the backfield, MacAfee and Haines to throw to, Huffman and Foley on the OLine, and a defense we can only dream of today.

Also keep in mind that kids like Clausen and Crist came to ND to play where Quinn, Theismann, Hanratty, Hornung, Guglielmi, and Montana played QB. They didn't shrink from the chance they wanted to walk in those shoes. The Golics weren't afraid to walk on the field where their dad was played. Ryan Leahy excelled on the same field his grandfather did for Rockne as a player and then as a head coach.

Nick may chose another school for early PT, South Bend winters, better coed selection, or some other reason but not because he's afraid to walk in his father's shoes.

If that's the case down the road he wouldn't be able to show up for the NFL Draft.
 
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JeremyND07

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Heaps is out. It is down to Hinder and Montana. I like Hinder's size a pro-style arm but think he is going to Cal. The main thing I remember about Montana is that 1977 National Championship and all of those Super Bowl rings. Greatness to me is defined by championships not by stats. Joe's shoes are to big for anyone to fill especially his sons so I would not blame him for not wanting to go through that. However, he will get those comparisions no matter where he goes to college so why not go to ND were he will be a god even when he screws up!
 

IrishAddiction

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I want Hinder to commit, and Montana to walk on. I love having great people walk onto ND. Have had Nate already, and that lineman last year. both had over 7 D-1 offers if i remember right.
 

GOLDENISTHYTATE

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I really wish Jesse Scroggins was more interested in us, but that feels like a ship we didn't jump on quickly enough, and it is only May for Christ's sake. I like what I have seen in Massa and think he has been looked over because of his injury during the junior season. This quarterback race should be fun.
 

NDinL.A.

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I want Hinder to commit, and Montana to walk on. I love having great people walk onto ND. Have had Nate already, and that lineman last year. both had over 7 D-1 offers if i remember right.

Kiss Hinder good-bye guys. He's going to commit in the next month or so, and he does have ND in his top 3, but he LOVES Cal. Loves, Tedford, the facilities, the education, the players, etc. Couldn't stop saying good things about that school. Wanted to commit last weekend but didn't want to make any rash decisions, and he wanted to visit a couple more schools just to make sure. But I haven't read anywhere where he has definite plans to visit ND in the next month, so I don't think we're that much of a player here, unfortunately...
 

BGIF

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Yup. Why the hell would he walk on?

Cause daddy can afford it.

Just as JW Jordan's daddy (Gear CEO, ND BOT donateda a building to ND) could have afforded ND tuition. Back then ND was penalized two scholarship slots resulting from the Dunbar affair. ND really could have used his scholarship to recruit better talent while JW walked on.

It's not going to happen. Actually it can't happen as according to NCAA recruiting rules as ND has "recruited" him. If Nick walked on now he'd still count against the 25/85 rules even with daddy paying full freight. Bear Bryant and several other coaches were very good at padding their recruitment classes with methods like that until the NCAA banned them.
 

jason_h537

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Kiss Hinder good-bye guys. He's going to commit in the next month or so, and he does have ND in his top 3, but he LOVES Cal. Loves, Tedford, the facilities, the education, the players, etc. Couldn't stop saying good things about that school. Wanted to commit last weekend but didn't want to make any rash decisions, and he wanted to visit a couple more schools just to make sure. But I haven't read anywhere where he has definite plans to visit ND in the next month, so I don't think we're that much of a player here, unfortunately...

That sucks. Hopefully if Hinder decides to go elswhere, that will make us that much more attractive to Montana
 

BGIF

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That sucks. Hopefully if Hinder decides to go elswhere, that will make us that much more attractive to Montana

I'd like to see Hinder stay in the hunt for ND but why should Hinder's choices impact Monatana's?

Rivals has Hinder #2 and Nick #12 but Scout has Hinder #28 and Nick #11. Hinder's taller but that seems to be his only measurable advantage at this point.

If Montana is really concerned about Hinder as competition than scratch ALA (Sims), UGA (Murray), LSU (Shepherd) and probably SU (Nunes, Luck) off his short list. They all got commitments this year or last year for QBs rated higher than Nick.

If competition is the concern than a Lockerless UW should be his first choice and OSU his second. At UW he might be able to compete as freshman, I'll bet their HC is telling him that regardless of his weight. At OSU Pryor would have a 2 years of eligibility left but will probably bolt to the NFL early. He pcould lay caddy to Pryor as a freshman and start his sophomore year. Crist has more eligibility left than Pryor does and is less likely to bolt early.
 

BGIF

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I really wish Jesse Scroggins was more interested in us, but that feels like a ship we didn't jump on quickly enough, and it is only May for Christ's sake. I like what I have seen in Massa and think he has been looked over because of his injury during the junior season. This quarterback race should be fun.


According to Scroggins coach (Biggins ESPN 5/21 article) ND visited his school for 3 hours this week. While ND evaluates, Carroll and Meyer jumped on the band wagon and issued offers as has Sarkisian and Kiffin. CAL, LSU, and NU have also offered.

As for fear of competition:

I've always liked USC, it's a great school. They're high on my list and it's cool to have the local school as an option. I know some players might be afraid to go there because they signed Matt Barkley last year but that's not me at all. I'm all about competing and may the best guy win the job
 

jason_h537

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Whats up with Pete Thomas. As high as he is ranked there has got to be something about this kid to not have alot more offers.
 

BGIF

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If we can't get Hinder I rather go after Thomas than Montana.

Why, because Thomas is 6-5 versus Montana's 6-3 (they're both slim), or mechanics, or fleeter feet, or stronger arm, or ?

Have you seen either or both play?
 

jason_h537

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Apparently OSU offered another Quarterback. Originally they had only planned on offering Montana, but this rumor has been heard before.
 

BGIF

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Response to jason's comment in the Henrix thread

Response to jason's comment in the Henrix thread

QB and WR seem interesting to me because it appears as if the staff might be worried about losing out on their top targets. ... but the staff wants and needs quarterbacks

Are they? The May Evaluation Period is closing and ND sent out a flurry of offers across the board including another QB AND they have one or two campers coming this month for evaluation.

ND's reported to be in good shape at CB but they added offers there. They may be scrambling for a fall back position. On the other how do we know who they're comfortable with.

N.B. NO INSIDE INFO HERE, just a hypothetical. Suppose one kid has already given a silent to ND. Perhaps the coaches wanted him to slow play his acceptance so they can bring in another higher caliber kid. It's happened before.


The Top Guys (Offered) - Gone or soon to be
#2 Hinder (CAL) - Grandpa's in the Hall of Fame
#3 Bell (OU) - He's stayed home in Big 12 land
#7 Wood (UTX) - Stayed Home Instate
#8 Heaps (BYU to be) Keepin the Faith and supposedly ND's interest waned
#2 Dual - Gardner (UM) Instate and Spread Offense

I don't see any real surprises there. ND had a shot but was really coming from the outside in each case.

Top Guy (NO Offer)
#6 Scroggins ND evaluated but ? Meyer's gonna scrape the spread for him after Tebow's gone. or UTN, or ... I don't think ND is really in contention

=============================

NEXT TIER - ND is likely to get ONE of the 4 Star QBs:
#12 Montana (Offered) - I think he's ND or OSU
#11 Hendrix (Offered) -See Montana only vice versa. ND and OSU split
#13 Thomas - IF I miss on the 2 above

3 Star QB w/4 Star Potential
#16 Massa is supposed to camp at ND. IF his injuries are healed I except to see him become a 4 Star QB and move in contention with the 3 above.

==============================================

#2 ND QB Material
#20 Bennett could rise to a 4th Star his Senior Season but Massa's more likely.
#35 Doughty
NR Kasdorf
NR Rettig
NR Rees

I'd like 2 QBs but it has to be a guy who isn't going to transfer. What's the point of another Demitrious or Zach so they can fill a slot take up time and then transfer.

I can live with 1 of the 4 Star types and Nate Montana as insurance.
 

DirtySecret

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Why, because Thomas is 6-5 versus Montana's 6-3 (they're both slim), or mechanics, or fleeter feet, or stronger arm, or ?

Have you seen either or both play?

Thomas is 201, you can hardly call that slim. He weight 22lbs more than Montana.
 

Irish52

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I agree with Dirty Secret. Hinder is gone and we sure missed the boat on him as he will be terrific in college. Lets go hard after Thomas as he is the sleeper in this class. Montana keeps the better qtrbks from being interested as they don't want to play 2nd fiddle to the name. Can you blame them when most are better than Nick.
 

jason_h537

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Nick can play. Have you seen him? Very smart and accurate quarterback, kinda like a Jeff Garcia type
 

DirtySecret

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I agree with Dirty Secret. Hinder is gone and we sure missed the boat on him as he will be terrific in college. Lets go hard after Thomas as he is the sleeper in this class. Montana keeps the better qtrbks from being interested as they don't want to play 2nd fiddle to the name. Can you blame them when most are better than Nick.

Agree Thomas is the sleeper of this QB class. Kind like this kid right here was..

Matt Ryan - Football Recruiting

GEE, look BGIF this kid was 6'5 200lbs also. What is he doing now? Sure isn't pump gas or bagging groceries. Take notice to who didn't offer him which he want to go play for. Can Thomas be another sure fire in a bottle just like him?
 
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NDinL.A.

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Agree Thomas is the sleeper of this QB class. Kind like this kid right here was..

Matt Ryan - Football Recruiting

GEE, look BGIF this kid was 6'5 200lbs also. What is he doing now? Sure isn't pump gas or bagging groceries. Take notice to who didn't offer him which he want to go play for. Can Thomas be another sure fire in a bottle just like him?

Yeah, Thomas could be the Matt Ryan of this year's class. But that's ONE example. Do you want me to list the hundreds, nay, thousands of guys with the same offer list of Thomas who DIDN'T make it?

The truth is, recruiting is an inexact science. There's no secret formula that gives us a 100% success rate. Guys with no offer sheets become 1st round draft picks, and guys with 5 star ratings never even see the field regularly in college. It's just the way it is.

But look at the recruiting classes of schools like USC, Ohio St, FL, etc, teams that are consistently in the top 5 in recruiting classes are also consistently in the top 5 at the end of the year. These guys know what they are doing. Are they always right? Of course not. But I'll defer to them when it comes to scouting and recruiting, because the numbers say those guys know a lot more than you and I.

Thomas might turn out to be great, he might turn out to be crap. Who knows? You and I sure don't. And since we don't, if CW and Poodle Carroll and Urban Liar and Nick Satan and Bob Stoops etc don't offer him, then I'll assume they just don't see in him what you guys do...
 

DirtySecret

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Thomas might turn out to be great, he might turn out to be crap. Who knows? You and I sure don't. And since we don't, if CW and Poodle Carroll and Urban Liar and Nick Satan and Bob Stoops etc don't offer him, then I'll assume they just don't see in him what you guys do...

So if Pete, Charlie, Stoop, and Saban give a recruit the thumbs up than he justify as the real deal!! Is that what your trying to tell me. How about Colt McCoy? He had only one top school offer him(Texas). None these other coaches(minus Saban wasn't in the league)gave him the thumbs up.
 

NeuteredDoomer

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So if Pete, Charlie, Stoop, and Saban give a recruit the thumbs up than he justify as the real deal!! Is that what your trying to tell me. How about Colt McCoy? He had only one top school offer him(Texas). None these other coaches(minus Saban wasn't in the league)gave him the thumbs up.
Colt is pound for pound the best QB in the country. Jimmy is the best QB in the country.
 

NDinL.A.

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So if Pete, Charlie, Stoop, and Saban give a recruit the thumbs up than he justify as the real deal!! Is that what your trying to tell me. How about Colt McCoy? He had only one top school offer him(Texas). None these other coaches(minus Saban wasn't in the league)gave him the thumbs up.

Again, these are isolated cases, which I already said there will be those types of cases. Butdo you really want me to go through the list of THOUSANDS that are contrary to that of Colt McCoy? C'mon man. Read my post again.

And do you really think you are a better judge of talent than those guys? Really?
 

BGIF

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Thomas is 201, you can hardly call that slim. He weight 22lbs more than Montana.

Interesting.

You posted you'd rather go after Thomas than Montana.

I asked "Why?" and got No response

Was it height 6-5 vs 6-3 and mentioned their both slim. You didn't respond to the height differential. Instead you went off on a tangent about weight and then abilities on various and sundry QBs one taller, one shorter but still haven't mentioned if you like Thomas because he's taller.

mechanics? No Response

fleeter feet? No Response

stronger arm? No Response

? asking if there was some other aspect that you liked better about Thomas. No Response


I asked if you had seen either or both play looking for your rationale. Again, no response.
 

Synoptico

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And do you really think you are a better judge of talent than those guys? Really?

And that is the thing. No one, I mean NO ONE, who writes on any message board without getting paid is better at recruiting than ANYONE of those guys. Not you, not me, NO ONE. Have trust in your staff. We can't offer everyone. If Thomas were offered people would be clammering about offering Hendrix. It is the same crap as last year thinking we should have offered Golden Tate's brother.

Do we honestly believe they didn't look at the tape of him. Guys it is only May. There are plenty of people who will get offers before all is said and done. No need to give them all out at once. Hoe many people who we eventually signed last year didn't even have an offer at this time last year? How many weren't on our recruiting screen?

Be patient. There is time.
 

BGIF

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Thomas is 201, you can hardly call that slim. He weight 22lbs more than Montana.

I believe the differential is more like 15 pounds but that's not important. If either signs with ND, at the end of the day as they review the list. Charlie is going to tell Mendoza get our QB on a diet and weight regime. "Beef hiim up, I'm not going to have a skinny kid get beat up like Clausen did as a freshman."

Funny thing about all those writeups about Jimmy being skinny at 6-3 and 200. Last spring Somogyi (among others) noted how Jimmy had spent the off season getting his weight up to 217. Almost up to Brady Quinn's playing weigth. Commentators raved about his upper body strength and his increased ability to shed tackles with his added bulk.

Yeah for their heights they're both slim. They're high school juniors and will grow. BUT right now they're both slim for a Charlie Weis QB.
 
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