Should we be satisfied?

johnnd05

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I’d been planning on writing a post like this for a while, and now I finally have a moment, so here goes.

With recruiting having slowed down a bit, it’s worth taking stock of where we’d stand if our current group of verbal commitments made up the entirety of the ’08 class. Obviously this would be pretty disappointing, and there are several recruits (primarily Jason Baldwin, Jeremy Brown, Michael Floyd, Cyrus Gray, Kenneth Page, Trevor Robinson, Carlton Thomas, and Ryan Williams, though there are others as well) with whom we still have a good shot, but let’s just consider it as a POSSIBILITY.

As the attached chart shows, we actually wouldn’t do too badly if we stood pat. Obviously we’re not going to have as many commitments as the banner year of ’06, when the “recruiting” efforts of one Tyrone Willingham left us with loads of empty scholarships and we maxed things out (together with several early enrollments), but the fact is that we’re ahead of both ’06 and ’07 in terms of average star rating and total number of four- and five-star prospects, and we already have more verbal commitments than we did signees last year (a statistic that is of course complicated by a certain trio of defectors).

Moreover, take a look at the total number of “points” given to our respective recruiting classes: clearly this is a somewhat mysterious statistic, but it is the number used to determine overall rankings, and so it’s worth noting that we already have MORE points from both services than we did in either ’06 or ’07. And consider this: a total of 3,550 points would have been good for the #1-ranked Scout class in ’06 and their #7-ranked class in ’07, and 2,226 points would have put us at #8 in Rivals for ’06 and #6 for ’07. Obviously the number of “points” handed out may well vary some from year to year (just consider the divergence in the ’06 and ’07 Scout rankings), so there’s no GUARANTEE that our current crop of commitments would even be good enough to land us in, say, the top ten. That said, such a measure is clearly worth SOMETHING.

Suppose, though, that we DO manage to do well with our remaining prospects. (Note: this is where it gets complicated.) A (reasonably) best-case scenario, so far as I can tell, would be to get one of Baldwin and Floyd, one of Robinson and Page, one of Gray, Thomas, and Williams, and maybe Jeremy Brown. Supposing that we maxed out on that group (and keeping the current star-ratings unchanged), we would end up with 23 total commitments, with either four or five five-star commitments on Scout and one on Rivals, 13 or 14 four-stars on Scout and 18 on Rivals, and five three-stars on Scout and four on Rivals. Averaging those numbers out, you have average star-ratings of 3.978 on Scout and 3.870 on Rivals: compare this to averages of 4.17 and 4.22 for the top Scout classes in ’06 and ’07 respectively, and 3.96 and 3.89 respectively for the top Rivals classes in those years. One last statistic in this regard: the top Scout classes had eight 5*, 12 4*, and four 3* in ’06 and ten 5*, 13 4*, and four 3* in ‘07, and the top Rivals classes had five 5*, 14 4*, and six 3* in ’06 and four 5*, 16 4*, and seven 3* on ’07. (Whew.) Against those measures, these hypothetical best-case classes I’m considering here would DEFINITELY be enough to put us right up near the top.

So there’s a little perspective for you. What do you think? Are you satisfied with this class as it stands, or would you be disappointed if we strike out across the board on our remaining prospects?
 
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Sureal

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I'm mostly a reader when it comes to recruiting threads but I have a burden for this topic.

No. I'm not satisfied with how it is now. Don't get me wrong we've done well so far but...

We need some receivers still. No matter what I read with some of the posts regarding the current WR's I still would like to see some guys coming in. I like Baldwin and Floyd (recent developments are scaring me with Floyd). I want to see at least one of them on board. I got all my hopes on one these WR's. You can include Walker also.


I won't ever be satisfied until we get number one classes year in and year out. I know that is unrealistic but that is the standard this staff has and so I am going to follow in the same vein.
 

johnnd05

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I'm mostly a reader when it comes to recruiting threads but I have a burden for this topic.

No. I'm not satisfied with how it is now. Don't get me wrong we've done well so far but...

We need some receivers still. No matter what I read with some of the posts regarding the current WR's I still would like to see some guys coming in. I like Baldwin and Floyd (recent developments are scaring me with Floyd). I want to see at least one of them on board. I got all my hopes on one these WR's. You can include Walker also.

I won't ever be satisfied until we get number one classes year in and year out. I know that is unrealistic but that is the standard this staff has and so I am going to follow in the same vein.

I agree with the first part - WR is definitely a big "need". Do we need NUMBER ONE classes every year, though? Not really, IMO - and we may not be able to, given location, academic standards, the fact that we don't drop kids, etc. But top five would be nice!
 
S

southbendkid

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Charlie seems pretty loyal to the fifth year seniors. I don't see him preventing more than one or two from returning so I think our recruiting class will stop soon. Him not stoping now shows that he does want at least one more recruit to top it off. What did he say? Something like he owes it to the fifth year seniors to have a good season.
 

Sureal

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I see your point.

I see us like a sort of Duke (basketball). I know I can't stand them either but as far as college sports are concerned I think we compare greatly to them in respect of team expectations, academic standards. I think if they can do it we can. I know it's a different beast football recruiting and b-ball recruiting but I know there are high quality kids out there that are remarkable athletes as evident of this years bunch. I believe we are on our way to getting the type of kids that would make us proud to be ND fans on and off the field. With this staff that we have we can expect top five type classes year in and year out. This makes you wonder how really bad it was Pre-Weis?
 
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Zorro50

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"This makes you wonder how really bad was it Pre-Weis?"


It was horrendous. Remember Urbie turned us down because the perception everywhere was that you can't recruit top guys at ND. The academics are too tough. BS! Every one of us should thank the Lord for what Charlie has done for the football program. Look at Nebraska, Alabama. Miami et al. Every program runs in cycles and some never get back to where ND is under CW and it's just starting to roll. I am so fired up for thus season!!
GO IRISH!
 

johnnd05

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P.S. Here's one more chart to help with that (massively confusing) last paragraph.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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We don't have room for more than another 5-6 guys...so we need a couple more, but let's choose carefully.

WRs please!!!
 

grantphilly

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I see your point.

I see us like a sort of Duke (basketball). I know I can't stand them either but as far as college sports are concerned I think we compare greatly to them in respect of team expectations, academic standards. I think if they can do it we can. I know it's a different beast football recruiting and b-ball recruiting but I know there are high quality kids out there that are remarkable athletes as evident of this years bunch. I believe we are on our way to getting the type of kids that would make us proud to be ND fans on and off the field. With this staff that we have we can expect top five type classes year in and year out. This makes you wonder how really bad it was Pre-Weis?

I get what your saying but in basketball its a little easier to do b/c you only have 5 guys on the court at a time and dress some where around 10. Where in football which I'm sure you know you have to have 22 people that start and depth to give the studs a break every once and a while. Kind of like comparing apples and oranges.
 

goldandblue

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I would be satisfied if N.D. can have a top five recruiting class with what we have now. Although I think a couple of WR's would be a good addition to this class. So what have our class rankings been since C.W. came on board and when was the last time We had the #1 recruiting class??
 

KamaraPolice

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The basketball comparison falls short on the fact that one great player can make a team, and two great players can create a championship team [See: Texas (Durant) and Ohio State (Oden and Connelly, Jr.), respectively]. However, this is were I find validity; Coach K is an excellent coach that coaches up talent. Yes, Duke recruits well; however I would argue their viability as a national championship contender and repeated #1 seed falls on the coaching ability of Coach K and his fabulous assistants.

Being an assistant at Duke is like being an intern for Warren Buffett; you are damn near gauranteed a head coaching spot. I like what Charlie Weis has done with bringing in Corwin Brown, and I think the biggest news surrounding this is the fact Charlie Weis wanted Corwin from day one. Guys like Rick Minter are career assistants for a reason. Not to slam what what Minter did at Cinci or as a head coach in general, but it's obvious that he wasn't cut out as a head coach. Bring in the young guys, the guys who want to make a name for themselves, they guys that are destined to be great young head coaches one day.

Everytime Coach K loses an assistant to a head coaching position elsewhere, he replaces him with another guy just as talented and just as likely to have head hunters swoon in and sign him away. That's the subtle nuances many times not talked about; recruiting player talent is key, but you can't ignore the fact that the truly great coaches recruit great coaching talent as well. I hate USC too, but there is no denying the young talent that Pete Carroll has on his staff... Hell, he had TWO assistants (Kiffin and Sarkisian) in the running for the same NFL head coaching job, ASTOUNDING!

As Notre Dame wins games this season and surprises people, I have a good feeling about some of these top prospects giving CW and company their word. However, what I am happy about, and content with, is the fact that the coaching staff is impressive. Players are starting to live up to potential, guys who were lost in the Willingham days are emerging once again; guys like Anothy Vernaglia. You have to credit the players hard work, but don't forget about the other part of the equation, the coaching element.
 

OCIrish

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Should we ever be satisfied? No, never, but we can handle some dissapointments if they're minor ones. While we need some more depth at WR, having Goodman in the fold already eases things a little here. Now, we're in a position to add depth to our already talented young team. Look at USC, they have talent everywhere, including the depth chart. They can run in AA after AA after... well, you get the point. To be able to compete at the highest level, we're going to need to add to that depth. If someone goes down, say, on the D-line, we're in some serious trouble. I know we have Nwankwo and Nuss over there now, but as Frosh, I don't know if they're physically ready to handle the rigors of everydown football in College. I failed to put Ian Williams in that equation, just for the fact that he looks like a beast and ready to contribute right away. He may need to!! But, to answer your question, no, we should never be satisfied, if we win the NC, we get ready to repeat it next year, no excuses, no satisfaction. Man up and do it again.
 

johnnd05

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Via the Roundup, this builds on my original post:

How good is ND's 2008 recruiting class?

As most people know, Notre Dame's current group of 19 committed players for their 2008 recruiting class is ranked #1 overall by both Scout and Rivals. As anyone who follows recruiting will be quick to remind you, though, the programs that have been the best at recruiting in recent years - Florida and USC in particular, with just 8 and 14 total commitments respectively - are just getting started, so it's hard to say where ND's class will be ranked overall when National Signing Day rolls around.

Nevertheless, we can get some sense of how to answer this question by comparing ND's class as it currently stands to Charlie Weis's recruiting classes from the past two years. At present, four of ND's committed players have received five stars from Scout.com, eleven have received four stars, and four others have received three stars. Meanwhile, Rivals has given five stars to just one ND commit, but fourteen others have four stars and the final three have three stars. As the following table shows, those numbers stack up pretty well against ND's classes from the past two years:


One thing this chart makes clear is that according to both recruiting services, the average star rating of an ND recruit has gone up each year under Charlie Weis, to the point where now our average recruit is just about a four-star player. (For comparison's sake, the average star rating in Tyrone Willingham's banner year of 2003 was 3.52 from Scout and 3.41 from Rivals, though inter-year variability in how points are assigned is probably even more extreme here.) And while our number of genuinely elite, five-star players still hasn't reached the level of a Florida or a USC, our overall player quality is more than respectable.

What's in a way even more interesting, though, is that the total number of "points" given to this recruiting class by both services is already higher than the number of points received by either of our previous two classes, including the group from 2006 which was nearly half again as large as our current class. Obviously there might be a bit of inconsistency in terms of how points are assigned from year to year, but it's instructive to compare the current class to the very top overall classes from previous years in this respect: in 2007, a total of 3,685 points would have been good for the #7-ranked class from Scout, and in 2006 this total would have been good for the #1 overall ranking. Meanwhile, Rivals would have given a class that received 2,226 points their #6 ranking in 2007 and their #8 ranking in 2006. (For comparison's sake, it's perhaps also worth mentioning that Willingham's 2003 class earned 2,338 points from Scout and 1,756 points from Rivals.) Once again, the possibility of year-to-year inconsistency in the assignment of points makes these statistics a bit hard to interpret, but they do give us good reason to believe that even if Notre Dame doesn't manage to land ANY more commitments for this year, the present group of 19 will be good enough for a top ten ranking from both services.

This last remark - that ND's current recruiting class is probably "top ten" caliber even as it stands - raises obvious questions about how good it will be if the class grows larger. But that's a post for another day.
 
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irish4ever

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I agree with the first part - WR is definitely a big "need". Do we need NUMBER ONE classes every year, though? Not really, IMO - and we may not be able to, given location, academic standards, the fact that we don't drop kids, etc. But top five would be nice!

Couldn't have said it better myself!
 

Irish52

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I would like to see us recruit 2 top WR, 1 speedy RB, 2 OL, 1DL or LB. Then, we would truly be in the top 3 recruiting classes but more importantly, will have taken a giant step toward the NC. What do you think?
 
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