Should BVG Be Fired?

[loomis41973]

Manti Teo was soft?

Harrison Smith was soft?

Stephon Tuitt was soft?

Sheldon Day is soft?

Much softer when they left than when they arrived. Harry may be the exception

It's just the culture at ND...nothing wrong with developing gentlemen. Proud we do

 

[brewdog_14527]

This is comical. Let me start by saying that I don't know whether BVG should stay. I don't think that we got everything possible out of this year's unit. But, this idea that "Next man in" applies when 6 DB's from the 2 deep at the end of the spring ball did not play today is ridiculous. Tillery-out, J. Jones limited due to his absence all year, Day hobbled with a foot injury, Jaylon and his backup go out, meaning that Jarrett Grace was playing out of position. Not to mention that fact that this is the second year, meaning his recruits are finishing their soph and frosh seasons, and he runs a 4-3, instead of the 3-4 that the players were recruited to play before (Deeb?). It seems that part of this whole argument stems from the fact that Joe Schmidt played in place of Nyles Morgan for the year.

 

[goldandblue]

I think BVG sucks and should be replaced

 

[GoIrish41]

This is comical. Let me start by saying that I don't know whether BVG should stay. I don't think that we got everything possible out of this year's unit. But, this idea that "Next man in" applies when 6 DB's from the 2 deep at the end of the spring ball did not play today is ridiculous. Tillery-out, J. Jones limited due to his absence all year, Day hobbled with a foot injury, Jaylon and his backup go out, meaning that Jarrett Grace was playing out of position. Not to mention that fact that this is the second year, meaning his recruits are finishing their soph and frosh seasons, and he runs a 4-3, instead of the 3-4 that the players were recruited to play before (Deeb?). It seems that part of this whole argument stems from the fact that Joe Schmidt played in place of Nyles Morgan for the year.

That is exactly it for me. He played an inferior player so he could run his complex scheme that regularly had DLs covering skill players in space, DBs regularly blowing coverages, and two of 3 lbs that produce little on the field. If he would have coached up the better athlete and started playing checkers instead of chess with his scheme, I suspect the defense would have played better as a unit in a simpler scheme.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Remember when we wanted to get rid of diaco.

 

[brewdog_14527]

That is exactly it for me. He played an inferior player so he could run his complex scheme that regularly had DLs covering skill players in space, DBs regularly blowing coverages, and two of 3 lbs that produce little on the field. If he would have coached up the better athlete and started playing checkers instead of chess with his scheme, I suspect the defense would have played better as a unit in a simpler scheme.

What are you basing your opinion on that Morgan should have played? He may be great next year, but he certainly would not be the first 5 star player that did not develop as we HOPE when he gets to college or that has the light come on later than we would have hoped.

 

[stlnd01]

Been on the fence about BVG all year. Jumped off it today. Tons of injuries, I know, but he's not putting our guys in the best position to win and his schemes are apparently so complex that we have to play inferior athletes like Schmidt and Onwualu. Against middling teams that's OK but when we're up against the big boys we need our best athletes out there.

 

[GoIrish41]

What are you basing your opinion on that Morgan should have played? He may be great next year, but he certainly would not be the first 5 star player that did not develop as we HOPE when he gets to college or that has the light come on later than we would have hoped.

Every time he did play -- mostly last year -- he played well. Schmidt did not play well this year. There was never an attempt to get him any playing time. Schmidt had to be on the field because he was the only one who could get everyone line up. And yet, our biggest deficiency on defense this year was having players out of position. Morgan has already shown on the field that he is a better football player. He was better last year than Schmidt is this year. Am basing my opinion on watching them both play football.

 

[kmoose]

He played an inferior player so he could run his complex scheme that regularly had DLs covering skill players in space

You see? Every time I read this fallacy, I am tempted to completely dismiss anything else the person has to say about the scheme. Because they obviously don't understand the zone blitz scheme. In the zone blitz scheme, the dropping Linemen are NOT "covering" anyone. They are simply occupying space so that there is not an open throwing lane for the QB to exploit. They may move around a little, as they read the QB's eyes, but they are not covering anyone. So I wish people would stop saying they are.

 

[NDRock]

What are you basing your opinion on that Morgan should have played? He may be great next year, but he certainly would not be the first 5 star player that did not develop as we HOPE when he gets to college or that has the light come on later than we would have hoped.

My issue is that he never got to play. How could we not get him in a couple of series a game> Joe, at best, was an average LB. It's not like we are talking about taking Jaylon off the field. Maybe Morgan is bad and will never make it but I'll be more pissed if Morgan is our starter next year and we never gave him any reps this year.

 

[dang227]

You see? Every time I read this fallacy, I am tempted to completely dismiss anything else the person has to say about the scheme. Because they obviously don't understand the zone blitz scheme. In the zone blitz scheme, the dropping Linemen are NOT "covering" anyone. They are simply occupying space so that there is not an open throwing lane for the QB to exploit. They may move around a little, as they read the QB's eyes, but they are not covering anyone. So I wish people would stop saying they are.

True but they do have a zone such as the hook, curl or flat and it seemed the opposition always knew where that was. Zone blitzes are also not effective on 3and 5 or less yet he continued to run them.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Every time he did play -- mostly last year -- he played well. Schmidt did not play well this year. There was never an attempt to get him any playing time. Schmidt had to be on the field because he was the only one who could get everyone line up. And yet, our biggest deficiency on defense this year was having players out of position. Morgan has already shown on the field that he is a better football player. He was better last year than Schmidt is this year. Am basing my opinion on watching them both play football.

He played reasonably well....for a true freshman who hadn't a clue what he was doing. Made some plays but was also out of position A LOT.

 

[GoIrish41]

You see? Every time I read this fallacy, I am tempted to completely dismiss anything else the person has to say about the scheme. Because they obviously don't understand the zone blitz scheme. In the zone blitz scheme, the dropping Linemen are NOT "covering" anyone. They are simply occupying space so that there is not an open throwing lane for the QB to exploit. They may move around a little, as they read the QB's eyes, but they are not covering anyone. So I wish people would stop saying they are.

If you drop into coverage you are covering -- you may not be covering a guy one on one, but you are covering a zone and skill players are coming into that zone and your job is to keep them from making a play. That is covering. I'm not sure there is much space between what I am saying and what you are saying.

 

[kmoose]

True but they do have a zone such as the hook, curl or flat and it seemed the opposition always knew where that was. Zone blitzes are also not effective on 3and 5 or less yet he continued to run them.

I'm not defending VanGorder's use of them. I was only correcting the misconception that VanGorder's defense has DL trying to cover WRs. So he certainly isn't playing an incompetent MLB so that he can have a Defensive Lineman cover a Wide Receiver.

 

[kmoose]

If you drop into coverage you are covering -- you may not be covering a guy one on one, but you are covering a zone and skill players are coming into that zone and your job is to keep them from making a play. That is covering. I'm not sure there is much space between what I am saying and what you are saying.

No, you aren't covering. No more than a guy stepping into the lane to take a charging foul is guarding the guy going to the basket. You are simply putting a body into a space, so that the QB cannot just chuck it past the blitzer into the space that he was previously occupying.

 

[GoIrish41]

He played reasonably well....for a true freshman who hadn't a clue what he was doing. Made some plays but was also out of position A LOT.

On the other hand Scmidt made few plays and was often taken out of plays because he can't get off blocks. Point is that BVGs job is to coach him to play his defense, and if he put an inferior athlete on the field because his defense is too complex for the better athlete to play, that is a coaching failure.

 

[dad4aa]

No, you aren't covering. No more than a guy stepping into the lane to take a charging foul is guarding the guy going to the basket. You are simply putting a body into a space, so that the QB cannot just chuck it past the blitzer into the space that he was previously occupying.

Great analogy to explain your point

 

[EifertPower]

Before today, i was hopeful it might be as easy as us graduating Joe Schmidt and having someone new in that position next year. After today i think it's more of a scheme that we are destined to fail on defense. The dropping of Day, Rochell, Cage, and Okwara into coverage consistently has forced me to give up on BVG. It never works.

 

[Woneone]

lol at people complaining about the zone blitzes today. They were some of the more effective calls against OSU.

With our injuries, if you think lining up and playing some base defense to make it "simple" is the best way to go, you're out of your mind. We had to confuse them, trick them, make Barrett make bad reads, because we were outclassed on a man to man basis. Barrett was something like 19-31. We didn't really get beat over the top. We made them dink and dunk us down the field (other than the long Elliott run). I would have loved to make them go up-top with even more exotic pressures, but we had guys playing out of position all game, so I understand what we did.

If we're playing Iowa right now, the point is moot. We played a top 4 team, with a ton of injuries, and got beat. Our guys, ESPECIALLY our defense, even out manned, played hard the entire game.

Sometimes, you're just not the better team.

 

[GATTACA!]

lol at people complaining about the zone blitzes today. They were some of the more effective calls against OSU.

With our injuries, if you think lining up and playing some base defense to make it "simple" is the best way to go, you're out of your mind. We had to confuse them, trick them, make Barrett make bad reads, because we were outclassed on a man to man basis.

If we're playing Iowa right now, the point is moot. We played a top 4 team, with a ton of injuries, and got beat. Our guys, ESPECIALLY our defense, even out manned, played hard the entire game.

Sometimes, you're just not the better team.

I like your mentality, let's just settle for mediocrity! Then BVG will be perfect.

 

[Woneone]

I like your mentality, let's just settle for mediocrity! Then BVG will be perfect.

Because the unrealistic and uninformed is much better. Keep preaching, brother!

 

[TheChosen1]

44 Points scored by Ohio State, the most ever against Notre Dame in the 35 bowl games it has played. The previous mark was Alabama’s 42-14-victory in the 2013 BCS Championship.

 

[Fbolt]

Agree with the disappointment sentiment. There has to be a better answer because over the last few years, the ND Defense has not been showing up. Lack of turnovers, lack of consistent pass rush, lack of kicking butt.

I also understand that the ND Defense needs to be able to handle several different styles of Offenses: Triple option, Pro, Spread, etc. based on the opponents, however, there has to be a better (read: more effective) and simpler way to do this. BTW, I do not have the answer.

 

[rtrn2glory]

44 Points scored by Ohio State, the most ever against Notre Dame in the 35 bowl games it has played. The previous mark was Alabama’s 42-14-victory in the 2013 BCS Championship.

So basically every time we have a chance to turn the program around for the better we get our shit handed to us.

Love the team to death but we have been out manned the past 10 times we've played in a big time bowl.

When will it ever end

 

[loomis41973]

So basically every time we have a chance to turn the program around for the better we get our shit handed to us.

Love the team to death but we have been out manned the past 10 times we've played in a big time bowl.

When will it ever end

likely never for many reasons

 

[Fbolt]

I even look at last year's LSU game where the Irish won-by outscoring them. Sigh...

 

[GATTACA!]

Because the unrealistic and uninformed is much better. Keep preaching, brother!

Unrealistic to want a competent defense? Mk

 

[pkt77242]

You see? Every time I read this fallacy, I am tempted to completely dismiss anything else the person has to say about the scheme. Because they obviously don't understand the zone blitz scheme. In the zone blitz scheme, the dropping Linemen are NOT "covering" anyone. They are simply occupying space so that there is not an open throwing lane for the QB to exploit. They may move around a little, as they read the QB's eyes, but they are not covering anyone. So I wish people would stop saying they are.

They are dropping into coverage, and have a specific area (zone) to cover. So yes they are covering. What else would you call it?

No, you aren't covering. No more than a guy stepping into the lane to take a charging foul is guarding the guy going to the basket. You are simply putting a body into a space, so that the QB cannot just chuck it past the blitzer into the space that he was previously occupying.

Wrong again. more like playing zone in basketball and they are suppose to cover someone who comes into their zone.

 

[KizerRolls]

How in the hell did he limit Christian McCaffrey to under 100 yards rushing?

 

[kmoose]

They are dropping into coverage, and have a specific area (zone) to cover. So yes they are covering. What else would you call it?



Wrong again. more like playing zone in basketball and they are suppose to cover someone who comes into their zone.

No. It's NOT. They are not assigned a zone to cover. WTF is so hard to understand about that? They are merely dropping off so that the QB cannot float a duck right over the head of the blitzing CB. They simply occupy space.