Secondary - Critical Issues!

[NYMIKE6]

It looked to me as if Zeke played a lot of spy. If he didn't, then he was out of position on nearly every defensive play. Let's see what Farley can do or remove that redshirt from Hardy.

Wasn't really "spy" it he was "sky force alley" meaning he had #3 all the way. ILB-FB dive, OLB-Pitchman, S-#3 Alley.

 

[RallySon]

So i guess we should consider VT a joke also considering GT was throwing the ball around last night?

Reality is "checked".

Offensive play calling vs Navy very very bland.

Defensive play calling vs Navy very very bland.

we won 50-10... yes beat a inferior team but still beat them big.

You guys are funny and love to point out 1-2 bad plays but saying nothing about the positives of the game. Motta big read on outside option, check, Russell read route very well and almost picked it, check... Don't let 1-2 bad plays put panic blinders on you.

You're talking about plays that they are supposed to make simple, easy reads on. Russell getting beat could've been an anomaly. I just don't think any of our elite recruits should get torched that bad unless they fell down or pulled their hamstring. Especially against that particular WR.

 

[NYMIKE6]

Nobody said we're a "joke"....we just looked awful. And you guys are funny and love to make excuses for poor play. It wasn't "1-2" bad plays...Did you watch the game?!?! Coverage was freaking terrible from start to finish.

I watched it twice thank you. How the hell did we look awful only giving up 10 points? now thats a joke.

Awful would be losing to Navy, those days are over.

 

[NYMIKE6]

You're talking about plays that they are supposed to make simple, easy reads on. Russell getting beat could've been an anomaly. I just don't think any of our elite recruits should get torched that bad unless they fell down or pulled their hamstring. Especially against that particular WR.

The one pass play Russell did slip and fall.

 

[RallySon]

He actually played great catchup on the one he fell down on the left side.

Notre Dame vs Navy 2012 Second Half Condensed - YouTube

True freshman, new position, whatever.. that is scary. Why would he lock his hips to the outside. Did this guy play any CB in high school?

 

[RallySon]

Take note that about 1 or 2 plays before the time I linked in that video, Bennett Jackson got lost as well.

Our pass rush will be our savior this year.

 

[NYMIKE6]

It was a double-move(no excuses) he will need to learn how to play it.

 

[NYMIKE6]

Take note that about 1 or 2 plays before the time I linked in that video, Bennett Jackson got lost as well.

Our pass rush will be our savior this year.

Glad you brought that up, I actually think that Russell looked much more comfortable and fluid then Jackson.

 

[RallySon]

It was a double-move(no excuses) he will need to learn how to play it.

Very true, I just noticed that, for some reason I had been thinking he just missed his jam.

I'm still clueless on why he locked outside, there wasn't really anywhere for the WR to go. I definitely think he'll come around though. I don't remember what site it was but it predicted that Russell could be a top 3 star sleeper of the year.

 

[RallySon]

Glad you brought that up, I actually think that Russell looked much more comfortable and fluid then Jackson.

I can only speculate that Jackson expected to release or something on that particular play. It was strange.

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

Young football players exist in a vacuum and never improve, right? Err...

Why are we talking about Lee and Woods? Who knows what this team will look like 10 games and three months from now? Let's wait and see if there is an improvement against Purdue on Saturday. Russell is a true freshman. He'll be learning new things and improving every week. The same can be said of first-time starter Jackson.

I have nothing to say about Motta. He just isn't very good.

 

[georgia irish]

Zeke's lateral movement and speed scare me,I mean we are talking NC.

 

[irishpat183]

I watched it twice thank you. How the hell did we look awful only giving up 10 points? now thats a joke.

Awful would be losing to Navy, those days are over.

You can look awful in certain aspects of the game. Don't let the victory fool you. The secondary was awful. And if you watched it twice, you'd see that they were bad

How can you have watched the game and not see that?

 

[Old Man Mike]

I was astonished at how well Russell stood up in the first game that he ever played at that position [for sure the first against grown-up competition]. If Keivaree is that good an athlete, and that fast a learner, I have a lot of hope that we are going to see one darned good corner evolve quickly.

I have a very strong intuition that Diaco and the DBackfield coaches are not football imbeciles nor rookies. They had other choices for this spot. They have seen something in Keivaree which has to have wowed them. They must think that if we are just a LITTLE patient with him, [and we should have some schedule time to allow that] that he will be special. I am looking forward to the blooming of a very good corner as the season progresses.

 

[phgreek]

Can't dismiss the issues or the scheme of the team we played...its both.

what I saw is Russel can't be asked to come up and play physical. He needs his cushion to make up for some issues in technique right now. I don't think we'll ask him to do alot of press beyond this Navy game....at least until he gets better. But, be honest, 1on1 he got smoked by a 2nd team navy receiver. That shouldn't happen.

Motta ...really hard to tell. Didn't recognize quick enough, and contributed to the toasting over the top. But that will happen to 10 more safeties that play Navy...sorry but these guys are human, and that scheme leads to safeties giving up big plays because they lose depth and perspective after 25 running plays in a row. Especially if those plays are chewing up yards. Some super athletic guys can recover on that play...but thats not who we have back there. I think what folks are saying is...cheat to beat the run, or play straight up and risk Navy chewing you up. On that play, If I'm Zeke, I'm saying no frekin way they throw it again...they did, he's shallow, doesn't reccognize fast enough...we lose that one. Fluke...way better than letting themmarch it down the field in Navy style.

 

[irishpat183]

Young football players exist in a vacuum and never improve, right? Err...

Why are we talking about Lee and Woods? Who knows what this team will look like 10 games and three months from now? Let's wait and see if there is an improvement against Purdue on Saturday. Russell is a true freshman. He'll be learning new things and improving every week. The same can be said of first-time starter Jackson.

I have nothing to say about Motta. He just isn't very good.

That's not what was said. I was stating what I thought of the play of the secondary in response to those that say "it's not a big deal, it's only navy" and other BS like that.

The comparasion was made to woods and lee to show that if Navy WR's (not even the starters) I shutter to think what acutal D1 stars would've done to us on Saturday.

And even if they improve, honestly, you think they'll be able to keep up with possibly the nations top recieving tandem??

 

[NYMIKE6]

You can look awful in certain aspects of the game. Don't let the victory fool you. The secondary was awful. And if you watched it twice, you'd see that they were bad

How can you have watched the game and not see that?

Theres room for improvement but far from awful, awful would have been 300 yards passing 4 tds from an "Option" team.

We were sub-par on some plays but over all played really well on defense. Hence the 10 points scored by Navy.

 

[irishpat183]

I was astonished at how well Russell stood up in the first game that he ever played at that position [for sure the first against grown-up competition]. If Keivaree is that good an athlete, and that fast a learner, I have a lot of hope that we are going to see one darned good corner evolve quickly.

I have a very strong intuition that Diaco and the DBackfield coaches are not football imbeciles nor rookies. They had other choices for this spot. They have seen something in Keivaree which has to have wowed them. They must think that if we are just a LITTLE patient with him, [and we should have some schedule time to allow that] that he will be special. I am looking forward to the blooming of a very good corner as the season progresses.

I agree. He showed some flash as a good athlete. But he's got a ton to learn about playing the position and it scares me that he's going to be doing it against a schedule like this one. On that play where we lost the guy, he's not gonna recover so easily against elite talent. I'm not saying he won't be "better" by the end of the year...but he won't be where we need him to be when taking the field against elite talent. That comes with experience, not just a few games, but seasons. He should be very good in a couple of seasons, maybe even as soon as next year. He's got the talent.

Let's just hope we are as good in the other facets of the game as I think we are (offense, Dline). I'll give the secondary a pass this year a chalk it up to new guys and injuries and try to hold my frustration level down. It will be "better" in following weeks (hopefully)...but considering what Navy, yes Navy, did to us...it can't get much worse back there.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I think everyone needs to calm down and enjoy the 40 point victory. I don't get this 'sky is falling' crap. You can't expect the D to force a 3-and-out every time they step on the field. Is it a good goal to have? Sure. But even the great Alabama defense gives up some big plays now and then. The bottom line....50-10 ND. This team will be fine barring any major injuries and keeping the TOs to a minimum.

 

[NYMIKE6]

And even if they improve, honestly, you think they'll be able to keep up with possibly the nations top recieving tandem??

Of coarse not but neither could the nations top DB's. But stating that is a improper equation, Pass defense has multiple factors. Pass rush being a big factor, arguably the "nations top receiving tandem" could struggle with a big pass rush.

 

[RallySon]

Forgive my boredom and over analyzing irrelevant film.

This is pre-snap and a little in to the play of the double move Bennett got beat on.

Post snap movement.

You'll notice that Zeke immediately turns towards Slaughters side of the field, I assume that was what was required when the motion man came over along with a power look to that side. Either way, why does he drop there? Cover 1 then adjust?

Did they assume that Jackson wouldn't need any help on that side of the field. Manti released to Slaughter, and the other LB (poor quality hard to tell numbers played the flat).

There were a few unorthodox looks like this that made no sense to me. I'll look for more later but this one stood out.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Watched the replay on youtube and they have a loong way to go... hope they are quick learners

 

[irishpat183]

Of coarse not but neither could the nations top DB's. But stating that is a improper equation, Pass defense has multiple factors. Pass rush being a big factor, arguably the "nations top receiving tandem" could struggle with a big pass rush.

You can't sack the QB everytime. And you also have to consider that you're playing against some pretty damn good QB's with a ton of experience.

And yes, a good secondary (overall) can hold it's own against top WR talent and limit the big play. We cannot do that at this point.

 

[NYMIKE6]

You can't sack the QB everytime. And you also have to consider that you're playing against some pretty damn good QB's with a ton of experience.

And yes, a good secondary (overall) can hold it's own against top WR talent and limit the big play. We cannot do that at this point.

Once again, i didn't say sack the QB on every play. Sacks are only part of the equation pressure is key forces turnovers and timing issues between QB and WR.

It is more often that big time WR get their stats then good secondary's shutting them down. But only if there isn't adequate pressure.

 

[NYMIKE6]

Mods can we re-name this thread to "ND fans a step away from suicide"

 

[irishpat183]

Mods can we re-name this thread to "ND fans a step away from suicide"

No suicide. And please don't confuse my criticism of one group on the field with the entire team.

I think the rest of the team looked very good. And it's nice to see some big plays/turnovers go OUR way for once. Also, it feels like that we finally have guys that are truly, playmakers on BOTH sides of the ball. The running game was exceptional.

But the secondary, there is nothing good to say about them other than "well Russell recovered nicely on that play"...LOL.

And there is logical reason for concern. I think our secondary takes us out of games this year. Big passing plays will kill us. No matter the grade of athete, you can't compensate for lack of experience. And I don't know of many exceptional CB's that make a huge jump in their true freshman years, much less when learning the position on the fly. Russell can be faster than lightning...but it won't matter if he bites on the fake against other lightining fast guys that run routes far better than Navy's 2nd team WR's.

 

[Patulski]

Agreed. But thats not part of the response I had to his statement. Had he said something to the effect of " I worry the db's will get burnt by the playaction or precise route running in the pro set", my answer wouldve been different.

And since thats not what he said, you get my response

Fair enough. Sorry I took it out of context.

 

[NDhoosier]

40 point victory??? pfft, this team sucks...

I was more disappointed in Koyack's hands than I was the secondary... No one seems to be talking about that.

This defense is not even close to a typical ND defensive scheme, I think people are jumping the gun here a little too quickly. Lets see how they do against Purdue, a traditional offense and a 3-4 defense run by ND.

 

[georgia irish]

I wish Neal would practice at cb and see how he does, didn't he play there in highscool.

 

[RallySon]

Yes, most elite players play both sides of the ball in HS.

We haven't seen much in a game from him but offensively he was considered one of the most electric ATH recruits in the country.

I'd rather have a mediocre secondary than waste a player who is a potential home run every time he gets the ball in his hands.