Red Sox Offseason Thread

[ojo_223]

Well, thank God that Lowell is back. That was really the major thing that needed to get done in the off-season. This team is set to make another run, right now. If they can go out and get Santana, then great, but I'm happy with the team right now. Repeat?? It will be tough, but they have the talent by retaining what was there.

 

[Newc]

LOL!!!

I can't even think about baseball yet. I still haven't recovered...

No seriously. Good deal with Lowell. I have to search the minors to see who we have at 3rd for the future. He ain't no spring chicken...

Jed Lowery.

Still a good year and a half to two years from being ready to play with the big boys, but he does show some promise. However, I would be surprised to see him used as trade bait as he is more likely a second baseman at the big league level.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Come on BoSox, you better pony up to keep him from going to the Yankee$

The race for Johan Santana is about to begin - Rumors - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

The New York Daily News has installed the New York Yankees as a 3-1 favorite in the race to acquire Johan Santana of the Minnesota twins. The Boston Red Sox are 4-1, the Los Angeles Angels are 5-1 and the New York Mets 8-1.

It's no secret that the Yankees would love to add the lefthanded ace to their rotation, but at what price? They have made it clear that Joba Chamberlain is untouchable, although Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy can be had for the right price - and Santana, who will be 29 on March 13, could be that player.

Red Sox are in strong position to deal for Santana, since they possess two blue-chip pitching prospects in Clay Buchholz and Jon Lester, and a solid young center fielder in Jacoby Ellsbury. The Twins have no interest in Coco Crisp, who is guaranteed $11 million over the next two years. The Mets' biggest problem might be the lack of a big-time pitching prospect to counter Hughes or Buchholz. Mike Pelfrey, Philip Humber and Kevin Mulvey are nice arms, but they don't approach what the Yankees and Red Sox can offer.

 

[Newc]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Lester, Ellsbury, Masterson deal for Santana. With Hunter gone, the Twins need a centerfielder badly and I doubt they want to go after Andruw Jones with the money he will be requiring, therefore Ellsbury would be the perfect fit.

I don't know how I feel about that move though. I like Ellsbury from his postseason performance, but I know that he can't perform like that all season, so that is a hard one. With Lester you've got a kid who fought back from cancer to seal the World Series, thats a pretty big accomplishment there, and Masterson is a pretty good looking up and coming pitcher. However, Santana would do well in a Sox uni. With the offensive firepower behind him, his numbers could be better than with the Twins, though he is pitching in a hitter friendly ballpark.

I really don't know what I want the Sox to do here. I guess if I were the GM and the Twins came and said they were ready to pull the trigger on that deal I would go for it, Santana is a huge addition to any rotation and the Sox have the money to get him a deal to stick around for many more years. Just think about it...Beckett, Santana, Daisuke, Schilling, Bucholz. Thats a pretty nasty rotation, with Schilling being the only one that wouldn't be there long term. The Sox would become the Braves of the early and mid '90s except they have some bats as well.

 

[Sureal]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Lester, Ellsbury, Masterson deal for Santana. With Hunter gone, the Twins need a centerfielder badly and I doubt they want to go after Andruw Jones with the money he will be requiring, therefore Ellsbury would be the perfect fit.

I don't know how I feel about that move though. I like Ellsbury from his postseason performance, but I know that he can't perform like that all season, so that is a hard one. With Lester you've got a kid who fought back from cancer to seal the World Series, thats a pretty big accomplishment there, and Masterson is a pretty good looking up and coming pitcher. However, Santana would do well in a Sox uni. With the offensive firepower behind him, his numbers could be better than with the Twins, though he is pitching in a hitter friendly ballpark.

I really don't know what I want the Sox to do here. I guess if I were the GM and the Twins came and said they were ready to pull the trigger on that deal I would go for it, Santana is a huge addition to any rotation and the Sox have the money to get him a deal to stick around for many more years. Just think about it...Beckett, Santana, Daisuke, Schilling, Bucholz. Thats a pretty nasty rotation, with Schilling being the only one that wouldn't be there long term. The Sox would become the Braves of the early and mid '90s except they have some bats as well.

ELLSBURY!!! Trade Jacoby????

I will not say it but I will rent of my clothing in the action that the priest would do after they would proclaim it.

B_ _ _ _ _ _ _ Y!!!!


How about we get rid of Crisp and anybody else beside him? Murphy anyone. Just not Jacoby.

I'm shocked. Shocked!!! --Bob Ryan

 

[Irishknight1023]

The Yankees will get our man. We let you win the bidding war with Dice-K last year and he was a solid #3 guy but nothing for what you paid him. I just don't want to see any of the mentioned guys get traded for him (Melky, definently not Cano, and I'd be willing to trade Jaba the most because he was overrated last year as a setup guy and he's moving into the rotation so he's unproven and we can capitalize on it). The Sox have enough pitchers...we need them.

 

[SoCalDomer]

How about we get rid of Crisp and anybody else beside him? Murphy anyone. Just not Jacoby.

That won't work in a trade with the Twins, they said they're not interested in Crisp.

 

[SoCalDomer]

The Yankees will get our man. We let you win the bidding war with Dice-K last year and he was a solid #3 guy but nothing for what you paid him. I just don't want to see any of the mentioned guys get traded for him (Melky, definently not Cano, and I'd be willing to trade Jaba the most because he was overrated last year as a setup guy and he's moving into the rotation so he's unproven and we can capitalize on it). The Sox have enough pitchers...we need them.

The Yanks have said this is the one guy who is not an option in just about any trade. They still might be able to put a deal together though.

 

[Newc]

Haha Sureal...I'm sorry man, I would go ahead and trade Jacoby. Its much easier to replace a position player than it is to get a very solid 29 year old stud of a pitcher. And also, I haven't quite given up on Coco yet. He may be one the best defensive centerfielders in the bigs and is only getting better in a tricky center at Fenway. Also, he hit .300 with 15 homers his last year with Cleveland and I have no doubt that he can duplicate those kinds of stats in Boston. The kid is still very young, he just needs to get comfortable at the plate and get some confidence back and he will be a premier center fielder. And don't get me wrong, I love Jacoby, I really do, but if he were part of a trade that could get us Johan how can you say no?? Now I will say that I would only put that deal on the table contigent upon the Sox being able to extend Johan before the trigger is pulled.


As for the Yankees. There is no way that Joba is moved. He is the pride and joy of the Yankees after the overhyped Hughes came up and couldn't stay healthy. Hughes and Kennedy are the ones to move if you are the Yanks. In addition, if the Yanks are to put together a package for Santana I can't imagine it not including Cano...Melky isn't that great and he has proven that he is very shaky in center. I can't imagine the Twins settling for his defense after having a 7 time gold glove winner out there in that huge centerfield.

 

[KamaraPolice]

Here's what I know:

1) Santana isn't even the best pitcher on his team
2) Joba is definitely not overrated

Francisco Liriano is incredible, and if he comes back from injury, will have better stats than Santana; plus he's only 22 or 23.

Also, Joba is a stud. How can a guy with a 99 mile per hour fast ball and 92 mile per hour slider with all that movement be overrated?

 

[SoCalDomer]

Here's what I know:

1) Santana isn't even the best pitcher on his team
2) Joba is definitely not overrated

Francisco Liriano is incredible, and if he comes back from injury, will have better stats than Santana; plus he's only 22 or 23.

Also, Joba is a stud. How can a guy with a 99 mile per hour fast ball and 92 mile per hour slider with all that movement be overrated?

Mosquitos definitely like him.

 

[Sureal]

The twins are trying to get Delmon Young so an outfielder is out of the question. Somebody is going to have to give up the dough to get Santana...

 

[Newc]

KP, how can you say Santana isn't the best pitcher on his team when you go on to say "if" Liriano comes back from injury? I will agree that Santana had an off year last year and Liriano has looked very good, but pitchers coming back from an elbow injury is always iffy.

And you're right. Jaba is not overrated, that kid is going to be special, as long as he doesn't have to play during a bug invasion. Jaba is the best pitcher the Yanks have right now, which is even more reason for the Sox to grab Santana.

 

[Newc]

The twins are trying to get Delmon Young so an outfielder is out of the question. Somebody is going to have to give up the dough to get Santana...

Delmon Young isn't the answer to the Twins centerfield hole. Most likely the Twins will place him at a corner position which may mean the Twins have some more trades in mind. This year is going to prove to be one of the best in offseason baseball due to all the trades. I love trades, much more enjoyable that free agent bidding.

 

[IrishinTN]

I don't know about giving up the farm for even a guy like Santana. Bucky had a 2 hitter, a 3 hitter and a no hitter last year. Lester is just getting his strength back and will also be a big-time lefty. And do I even need to talk about the ability and talent of Jacoby? The Beckett trade was a special deal for the Sox, but that is the exception on stuff like this and not the rule. The Sox gave up one guy (Ramirez) who turned out to be worth a darn to the Marlins, and the Sox got two guys who were incredible this season and a third who was used to get Coco. Even though Coco didn't get it done at the plate, his glove was amazing. I say keep the young guys as it is just too much to give away.

 

[IrishinTN]

In a stunning new rumor I just read, Charlie Walters of the St. Paul Pioneer is reporting the Red Sox are suddenly the front runners for Santana by offering Crisp, Lester, Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie. The Sox need to get an extension negotiated which could hit the 6 years/$150 million dollar level. Yikes!

 

[Sureal]

WOOOHOOO!!!

The Empire Squared!!!

 

[Newc]

I don't know about giving up the farm for even a guy like Santana. Bucky had a 2 hitter, a 3 hitter and a no hitter last year. Lester is just getting his strength back and will also be a big-time lefty. And do I even need to talk about the ability and talent of Jacoby? The Beckett trade was a special deal for the Sox, but that is the exception on stuff like this and not the rule. The Sox gave up one guy (Ramirez) who turned out to be worth a darn to the Marlins, and the Sox got two guys who were incredible this season and a third who was used to get Coco. Even though Coco didn't get it done at the plate, his glove was amazing. I say keep the young guys as it is just too much to give away.

Yea but you have to remember, Anibal Sanchez was thought highly of as a prospect coming from Boston, just because he hasn't had the greatest run in Florida doesn't mean he wasn't a highly thought of guy at the time of the trade.

 

[IrishinTN]

Yea but you have to remember, Anibal Sanchez was thought highly of as a prospect coming from Boston, just because he hasn't had the greatest run in Florida doesn't mean he wasn't a highly thought of guy at the time of the trade.

I hated seeing Sanchez go at the time (I remember preferring they trade Lester) and you can't see an injury coming. That helps prove the point that trades like the Beckett trade are the exception instead of the rule. Although...the trade that is now on the table for Santana might just be acceptable to me (not that anyone cares).

 

[Newc]

In a stunning new rumor I just read, Charlie Walters of the St. Paul Pioneer is reporting the Red Sox are suddenly the front runners for Santana by offering Crisp, Lester, Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie. The Sox need to get an extension negotiated which could hit the 6 years/$150 million dollar level. Yikes!

I heard on XM the four for Johan are Lester, Crisp, Lowery and one unnamed "power bat" minors player. I would say pull the trigger on this deal right away, but I am sure the Twins are going to want to hold out to see what else they can get. If I were Theo, I would offer up Hansen who is also highly though of in hopes that they could seal the deal quickly.

This does leave the Sox with a problem at third since we really have no one in our system to fill in after Mike, not that Lowery was a prototypical third basemen, but I'm sure he could have filled in if we were to develop someone else or go after a free agent. This pretty much means that once Lowell's contract runs up in three years the Sox will have to overpay whichever decent third baseman becomes a free agent that year....not too sure how I feel about that one. But you cross that bridge when you get there, getting Johan would almost gaurentee a repeat World Series. I can't imagine how nasty that rotation would be. Beckett, Santana, Dice-K, Schilling, Bucholz....NASTY. Can you imagine going into a postseason and Schilling being your number 4?

If those 4 or maybe 5 guys can lock down Santana you've got to pull the trigger.

 

[IrishinTN]

I can't imagine how nasty that rotation would be. Beckett, Santana, Dice-K, Schilling, Bucholz....NASTY. Can you imagine going into a postseason and Schilling being your number 4?

That is the kind of rotation dynasties are made of.

 

[Newc]

On a side note, I was just thinking about all the trades and got to wonderings. Orlando Cabrera for Jon Garland. I'm under tha assumption that the Angels picked up Garland to spin him back off to the Marlins in a Cabrera deal so I was wondering, what if the Sox could have offered a hurler for the Angels to turn around and deal. I know the Angels would have asked for a guy like Lester there, but would a straight deal having Lester going for Cabrera be worth it? Ofcourse you couldn't have seen anything that has just happened recently, but now you would have Lugo that you could offer with Coco, Masterson and Lowery to fill in the holes in Minn for relatively low cost.

Now I'm sure the Twins would ask for Bucholz in that deal to make up for the loss of Santana, but I doubt they will be getting more than Kennedy from the Yanks and Masterson is head and shoulders above Kennedy. In addition, now with Bartlett gone from the Twins, Lugo would fill a huge hole, Coco would add an amazing glove to that vast centerfield, you could move Delmon Young to right, which he is better suited for anyway with his arm, trade Cuddeyer to fill in some more holes or bolster the farm system, plug Masterson into the rotation right away and have Lowery develop down on the farm.

Ofcourse hind sight is always 20/20, but man I wish would could get Orlando back. I absolutely loved him in Boston and I have to say I honestly believe he is the best shortstop in the AL. Talk about the most underrated player in the bigs! I would be pissed if I were an Angels fan.

 

[Irishknight1023]

Here's what I know:

1) Santana isn't even the best pitcher on his team
2) Joba is definitely not overrated

Francisco Liriano is incredible, and if he comes back from injury, will have better stats than Santana; plus he's only 22 or 23.

Also, Joba is a stud. How can a guy with a 99 mile per hour fast ball and 92 mile per hour slider with all that movement be overrated?

-----He's good and I watched every appearence of him this year. He got lucky on his 0.00 ERA streak a lot when alot of balls would hit the warning track. He's overhyped because he was just a setup guy and you cannot know what to expect from him as a starter.

 

[Newc]

IrishKnight, that is a very valid point, especially with Joba not coming up till midseason. Expecting this kid to be the same after going from being a pullpen guy, with the ever so famous Joba Rule, to throwing 175-200 innings would be asking a ton. I do however still think that Joba is the best pitcher the Yanks have, especially with Petite unsure about coming back. However, being the best pitcher and being a quality starter are not one in the same. The Yanks need Wang to be a very good mentor to Joba if they want him to be successful quickly. Wang does speak english right??

 

[Newc]

Ok...this is coming from multiple sources now, that doesn't mean it isn't just recycled, but I tend to believe rumors that are picked up by multiple sources rather than the ones that are pushed for a few days then dropped.

The deal would have the Sox sending Lester, Crisp, Lowery and Masterson to the Twins for Santana. From the sounds of things, this is the best deal on the table because the Yanks have their deal anchored by Kennedy and Melky.

Lester ofcourse blows Kennedy out of the water and even Masterson is on the same level as Ian. As far as a Coco v. Melky debate. Coco definitely has the defensive side of that debate won and I really think that Coco is about even on the offensive side. He hit well in Cleveland and with the large outfield in Minn., Coco could pick up a bunch of two baggers hitting the gaps there.

I am sure if the Yanks really want Johan and I can't see why not, especially if the Sox are in the hunt they will have to deal Hughes in addition to Kennedy. If that is the case, then the Yanks will be in a bind for pitching this year as their rotation would most likely be Johan, Wang, Mussina, Jaba, and who ever they can find for that last spot. Maybe Petitte comes back if they get Johan but maybe not.

This offseason is one of the most exciting I can remember in some time.

 

[Sureal]

Ok.

That sounds a little better than trading Jacoby. Mercy. I was on pins and needles yesterday after you gave that scenerio.

Mind me. It's that Red Sock Paronoia...

I'll be checking SOSH today for any more updates...

 

[daytonirish]

Just watched a tape of some baseball guy on espn.com that now is saying the Twins are starting toplay hardball for Santana and might now be asking for way to much in young talent. But I will never put anything past the Sox or even the Yanks. When it comes to someone they want these two teams don't let anything stand in their way.

 

[Newc]

Just watched a tape of some baseball guy on espn.com that now is saying the Twins are starting toplay hardball for Santana and might now be asking for way to much in young talent. But I will never put anything past the Sox or even the Yanks. When it comes to someone they want these two teams don't let anything stand in their way.

Haha, very true. When the paranoia sets in on both sides there the trades can get out of control. The Twins could really play both sides against each other in hopes of getting the absolute most for Santana.

However, like many others have said, Santana isn't the end all be all in this market. Dan Haren could come to the Sox or even the Yanks and be a dominante force as well, and the trade demands would be significantly less for Haren.

If the Sox nab Haren, I wouldn't doubt the Yanks giving up Kennedy and a prospect for Haren or maybe even Hughes. While Haren will demand a quality pitcher or player he won't bring with him the demand for multiple players, that could ultimately end up more beneficial for whichever team may get him.

 

[Newc]

Ok.

That sounds a little better than trading Jacoby. Mercy. I was on pins and needles yesterday after you gave that scenerio.

Mind me. It's that Red Sock Paronoia...

I'll be checking SOSH today for any more updates...

Haha, I agree Sureal. I love Jacoby, he really is a Red Sox type player. But you wouldn't offer him if it meant getting Santana??

We would have a team ERA of 2.70 with him in the rotation....and win another 3 or 4 World Series Rings over the next 5-7 years.

 

[daytonirish]

Hey Newc, stop being so greedy. You and the Yanks just keep battleling it out for Santana and leave Haren for my Tigers. You know we need some love every now and then.