Post Game Thoughts

[notredomer23]

I just dont see why everyone is blaming weis. You can blame about ten different people besides him. For 1, Sharpley not holding on to the damn ball.

CW was good the past two years was because we had SOME good players. They became GOOD because they had EXPERIENCE. We are getting to the stage next year that if we dont win atleast 8 games(ill accept 7-5 and a bowl victory nothing less), then i will officially be off the CW bandwagon but thats the only damn way because I have seen what he can do. It sure seems like a lot of you have a short memory.

Oh, yeah. And start Jimmy next week

 

[GoshenGipper]

What does ND do when they need two yards or what is our money play?
ND does not have a clue at what to do and that to me as a fan is the worst part of the season.
Can anyone tell me why the bigger team could not move the smaller team?

The only way that happens is if the much samller team has better technique and works harder.

 

[GoshenGipper]

I just dont see why everyone is blaming weis. You can blame about ten different people besides him. For 1, Sharpley not holding on to the damn ball.

My real complaint are the two long fourth down call when they were already in FG range. it's not like it wsa 4th and one, or even 2. It was 4th and 15 and 4th and 8. If either one of them goes in then you win the game in regulation by three. Then the other one would be using a cold TTon the goalline, and especially on that play on the final 2pt conversion. Who didn't know that was comming? Obviously not Navy.

I just hope he learns from those calls in this loss and doesn't do it again when one lost game could blow the season. It would have been great if they had made it on either of those 4th downs, but even if they had I still wouldn't have liked the call.

I also agree that it's time to go back to Clausen and stick with him. He's the future, let him grow against AFA, Duke, and Stanford.

 

[Timugen]

I just dont see why everyone is blaming weis. You can blame about ten different people besides him. For 1, Sharpley not holding on to the damn ball.

CW was good the past two years was because we had SOME good players. They became GOOD because they had EXPERIENCE. We are getting to the stage next year that if we dont win atleast 8 games(ill accept 7-5 and a bowl victory nothing less), then i will officially be off the CW bandwagon but thats the only damn way because I have seen what he can do. It sure seems like a lot of you have a short memory.

Oh, yeah. And start Jimmy next week

1. My criticisms of [NAME REDACTED] aren't based solely on this game. Refer to my multiple posts over the last few weeks on this topic. Simply put, people need to stop the pin-hole vision of looking at one game and manufacturing excuses for it. Look at the season as a whole and where this team is, what they have (not) done, and how they stack up against other Div I-A teams (both those they have played and should have beaten, and how they have performed against common opponents of horrendous teams.)

2. I don't have a short memory. [NAME REDACTED] has shown me in the past 2 years that he is a very good X's and O's coach. The thing is..... he was fielding players that had already been developed from HS talent to college talent (and not by him). Did he take BQ to the next level? Maybe. But maybe his offensive system allowed BQ to put on display the ability that he had all along.
What [NAME REDACTED] hasn't shown me is the ability to develop HS talent into college talent. In the Navy game we had 21 players that were participants in the Army AA game in HS. How many did Navy have? Our lines outsized them by 40 lbs and our RBs were as big as their LBs. Our 6ft+ WRs were going against DBs that were giving up almost 6'' to them. Freaking DELAWARE put up 59pts on that Defense and we can't get a single point out of a fumble recovery on their 25 yd line?
And all that is before you even start to look at the play calling and decisions made by [NAME REDACTED].

Stop making excuses. Put the kool-aid down. You can say "we all saw this year coming" all you want, but it still doesn't make it true. NOBODY (not even Mark Gay) imagined us being this bad.

What should be the biggest indication to you that this is a coaching problem (not a talent/experience problem) is the absolute lack of improvement over 9 games this year. And if you want to point to the Navy game as some sort of improvement, then you're really stretching it. We struggled to sustain drives against one of the worst defenses in CFB, and not just Div I-A.


EDIT: Just for clarification before I get flamed, I was not implying BQ was a "system" QB, just that there is the possibility that what made him absolutely explode onto the scene his last two years was getting out of Ty's impotent offense, not necessarily [NAME REDACTED] "coaching him up."

 

[Timugen]

Oh, yeah. And start Jimmy next week

Why? The kid's been beaten to a bloody pulp and nobody still knows for sure if his elbow is truly 100%. Let him heal, learn some more from the sidelines, and hit the weight room this off-season....then start him.

I agree that he's the better QB, but you have to look at what is best for both him and the team further than one game out. This season is long gone. Get him healthy and ready (physically) for next year. Any "experience" he may gain by losing to the dregs of CFB in these last 3 games is worthless.

 

[notredomer23]

1. My criticisms of [NAME REDACTED] aren't based solely on this game. Refer to my multiple posts over the last few weeks on this topic. Simply put, people need to stop the pin-hole vision of looking at one game and manufacturing excuses for it. Look at the season as a whole and where this team is, what they have (not) done, and how they stack up against other Div I-A teams (both those they have played and should have beaten, and how they have performed against common opponents of horrendous teams.)

fair enough, but i thought we saw improvement and regression today. offence progressed. the defense regressed.

2. I don't have a short memory. [NAME REDACTED] has shown me in the past 2 years that he is a very good X's and O's coach. The thing is..... he was fielding players that had already been developed from HS talent to college talent (and not by him). Did he take BQ to the next level? Maybe. But maybe his offensive system allowed BQ to put on display the ability that he had all along.

He hasnt really had a chance to develop high school talent. Like i have stated in past threads. Im looking for a breakout year for the now sophomores and much of the freshman have showed improvement. IF we dont have a winning record and we dont win our bowl(say if we go 7-5, lose our bowl, I want him gone) that would be the only way i want him gone.

Stop making excuses. Put the kool-aid down. You can say "we all saw this year coming" all you want, but it still doesn't make it true. NOBODY (not even Mark Gay) imagined us being this bad.

I drink Kool-Aid and im proud. I knew it could get bad though. Did I think it would get this bad? Not even close. Did i expect to atleast go 6-6. Yes.

What should be the biggest indication to you that this is a coaching problem (not a talent/experience problem) is the absolute lack of improvement over 9 games this year. And if you want to point to the Navy game as some sort of improvement, then you're really stretching it. We struggled to sustain drives against one of the worst defenses in CFB, and not just Div I-A.

I think we have shown signs of improvement in every single game except for SC. thats the only game we regressed. We played decent yesterday. are we the better team? At this point NO.Do we have more talent? Hell yes. It just needs to develop. One thing this team lacks was upper classmen leadership that the teams of the past two years had.

EDIT: Just for clarification before I get flamed, I was not implying BQ was a "system" QB, just that there is the possibility that what made him absolutely explode onto the scene his last two years was getting out of Ty's impotent offense

 

[notredomer23]

Why? The kid's been beaten to a bloody pulp and nobody still knows for sure if his elbow is truly 100%. Let him heal, learn some more from the sidelines, and hit the weight room this off-season....then start him.

I agree that he's the better QB, but you have to look at what is best for both him and the team further than one game out. This season is long gone. Get him healthy and ready (physically) for next year. Any "experience" he may gain by losing to the dregs of CFB in these last 3 games is worthless.

Start him because these are 3 great chances at victories. give him confidence going into next year.

 

[Timugen]

fair enough, but i thought we saw improvement and regression today. offence progressed. the defense regressed.

This could possibly be the single most ridiculous statement I've ever read on here. Our offense came up short against a sieve of a defense. Our defense held one of the most efficient (and #1 rushing) offenses in CFB in check. You don't go into a game against a ball-controlling disciplined triple-option offense and expect to shut them down - it just doesn't happen. You need to win the ball-control battle and out-score them, plain and simple.

Our defense played alright. Great? No. A regression?

 

[notredomer23]

This could possibly be the single most ridiculous statement I've ever read on here. Our offense came up short against a sieve of a defense. Our defense held one of the most efficient (and #1 rushing) offenses in CFB in check. You don't go into a game against a ball-controlling disciplined triple-option offense and expect to shut them down - it just doesn't happen. You need to win the ball-control battle and out-score them, plain and simple.

Our defense played alright. Great? No. A regression?

your right the defense didnt regress. Im just pissed at two certain players in our secondary the whole season and the reason they got the touchdown in 3 OT was because one of them(wooden) was greatly out of position.

 

[Timugen]

Start him because these are 3 great chances at victories. give him confidence going into next year.

You seriously think these last 3 games are "3 great chances at victories?" Are you watching the same team I am?

Oh wait....I get it now.....nevermind.....you probably also thought the Navy game was a "great chance" at a victory.

 

[notredomer23]

You seriously think these last 3 games are "3 great chances at victories?" Are you watching the same team I am?

Oh wait....I get it now.....nevermind.....you probably also thought the Navy game was a "great chance" at a victory.

yeah because it was a great chance for victory. losing by two points means a game can go either way. hence there is a chance.


Come on I thought you knew i was blinded by Faith

 

[Timugen]

your right the defense didnt regress. Im just pissed at two certain players in our secondary the whole season and the reason they got the touchdown in 3 OT was because one of them(wooden) was greatly out of position.

LOL...finally some common ground re: Wooden.

Too bad we can't trade him for a draft pick.

 

[notredomer23]

LOL...finally some common ground re: Wooden.

Too bad we can't trade him for a draft pick.

Lol.

 

[Timugen]

yeah because it was a great chance for victory. losing by two points means a game can go either way. hence there is a chance

There was never a chance in that game. Navy was going to score almost (if not every) time they got the ball. We needed to match that. In order to do that we needed to play mistake-free football on offense and special teams. We didn't. It was no big surprise to me.

I actually told my wife (believe me or not) how stupid [NAME REDACTED] was for not at least trying that field goal, because if we went into OT against an option offense with the ball on the 25 we would struggle to match their scores and when/if it came down to the 3rd OT Navy would be able to make the 2pt conv and it would be hit-or-miss for us. I said this to her as our offense came out on the field in the 4th quarter instead of kicking it, and wow, what a surprise.

 

[notredomer23]

We should run the option. Armando Allen QB. Aldrdidge and Hughes and thomas in the wishbone.

 

[Timugen]

We should run the option. Armando Allen QB. Aldrdidge and Hughes and thomas in the wishbone.

Sadly enough, one cannot discredit your (obviously facetious) suggestion at this point, assuming we could get them to execute it properly in short order (which we couldn't.)

And as for the implication that I think the option is a great offense....I don't. It's just that Navy is extremely good at it and it is very frustrating and hard to stop. You will never be as frustrated as when trying to defend a team running a disciplined, efficient option attack.

 

[SteveM]

Comments:

JC versus ES: So Sharpley proves to be an inaccurate QB who has little field sense. But remember he replaced Clausen because he was inaccurate with little field sense. The announcers were talking up Clausen’s potential when he was playing I think because they felt sorry for ND and just wanted to put a positive spin on something. Frankly, while admitting that JC is a true freshman, I just don’t see a lot of there there.

ND’s lack of talent at the skill positions: Navy’s CB’s have proven to be slow. The teams with good speed on the outside merely blow right by Navy’s DB’s. The fact that ND could not do that is amazing. Moreover, quick screens are run to isolate a WR with superior speed on the DB who he is supposed to beat man up. We could not do that yesterday. Darius Walker was a step slow as a freshman and he never got a step faster. And unfortunately, those are the sorts of guys we have right now. (Although AA has the quickness, he is small.) And we could really use a classic fullback (e.g., Mark Edwards type.) You recruit those guys for situations like that last 2 point conversion.

Coaching: Plenty of guys have said it before. Now with [Name Redacted] it’s a trajectory thing. It’s not their record per se, but are they getting any better? And more importantly, what is the players’ evolving assessment of and relationship with the coaching staff. If the coaches lose the locker room, it’s finished. For better or worse, a head coach sets the tone and has to maintain it. It is really hard to get a good vibe back once it’s been lost. Not because it can’t happen, but because the coach who allowed it to happen it the first place probably does not possess the inherent leadership skills to recover the situation. It’s why some generals are commanders and others are logisticians. What kind of general is [Name Redacted]?

 

[Epitome]

Comments:

JC versus ES: So Sharpley proves to be an inaccurate QB who has little field sense. But remember he replaced Clausen because he was inaccurate with little field sense. The announcers were talking up Clausen’s potential when he was playing I think because they felt sorry for ND and just wanted to put a positive spin on something. Frankly, while admitting that JC is a true freshman, I just don’t see a lot of there there.

ND’s lack of talent at the skill positions: Navy’s CB’s have proven to be slow. The teams with good speed on the outside merely blow right by Navy’s DB’s. The fact that ND could not do that is amazing. Moreover, quick screens are run to isolate a WR with superior speed on the DB who he is supposed to beat man up. We could not do that yesterday. Darius Walker was a step slow as a freshman and he never got a step faster. And unfortunately, those are the sorts of guys we have right now. (Although AA has the quickness, he is small.) And we could really use a classic fullback (e.g., Mark Edwards type.) You recruit those guys for situations like that last 2 point conversion.

Coaching: Plenty of guys have said it before. Now with [Name Redacted] it’s a trajectory thing. It’s not their record per se, but are they getting any better? And more importantly, what is the players’ evolving assessment of and relationship with the coaching staff. If the coaches lose the locker room, it’s finished. For better or worse, a head coach sets the tone and has to maintain it. It is really hard to get a good vibe back once it’s been lost. Not because it can’t happen, but because the coach who allowed it to happen it the first place probably does not possess the inherent leadership skills to recover the situation. It’s why some generals are commanders and others are logisticians. What kind of general is [Name Redacted]?

Then why start Sharpley? Clausen has way more upside and will be the next great ND QB. There is a reason Clausen was so hyped, because he's good. By letting him get the starts in close games it will only make him a better QB in the future.

 

[SteveM]

Re: Then why start Sharpley? Clausen has way more upside and will be the next great ND QB. There is a reason Clausen was so hyped, because he's good. By letting him get the starts in close games it will only make him a better QB in the future.

I have no problem with starting Clausen. I'm just saying that at this point, ND's future at QB is still an open ended question.

SteveM

 

[wallym]

CW - Sideline Skills

CW - Sideline Skills

Charlie took this game away from the players. The decision not to kick a field gaol, and the fake on 4th and 15 were the worst decisions I've ever seen from a coach. I'm not impressed with his sideline skills, and he constantly struggles with decisions on how to manage a game.

The players played their butts off, but they did make some mistakes. Regardless, we were in a position to win and coaching decisions failed them.

 

[NDOM]

Charlie took this game away from the players. The decision not to kick a field gaol, and the fake on 4th and 15 were the worst decisions I've ever seen from a coach. I'm not impressed with his sideline skills, and he constantly struggles with decisions on how to manage a game.

The players played their butts off, but they did make some mistakes. Regardless, we were in a position to win and coaching decisions failed them.

Youre not impressed with his sideline skills???? What sideline skills? He has none!

 

[wallym]

He's show he can recruit, and he's show he can win with veteran players (both college and NFL), but what happens between the hashes is what really matters, isn't it?

 

[NDOM]

He's show he can recruit, and he's show he can win with veteran players (both college and NFL), but what happens between the hashes is what really matters, isn't it?

Thats right. Youre 100% right. I dont care if he can recruit. if he cant win like he's doing now, he's no good to me and honestly he's no better than Willingam.

 

[wallym]

I think Ty had much better game day and sideline skills. Players responded to him, he had a lot of energy/enthusiasm, and he didn't lose the game for the players (they did that themselves).

 

[GoshenGipper]

I think Ty had much better game day and sideline skills. Players responded to him, he had a lot of energy/enthusiasm, and he didn't lose the game for the players (they did that themselves).

Willingham was an idot and I've heard players that played for both him and Davie, or him and Weis say as much.

 

[Epitome]

The university was absolutely justified in firing Ty. He was a wild horse from the beginning. They took a chance on a young upcoming coach that didn't pan out. I give the university credit for seeing that early and cutting him loose when they did.

 

[GoshenGipper]

The university was absolutely justified in firing Ty. He was a wild horse from the beginning. They took a chance on a young upcoming coach that didn't pan out. I give the university credit for seeing that early and cutting him loose when they did.

Yeah, if he's so great why are people at UW ready to fire him after poor recruiting only winning two games, and giving up huge 2nd half and 4th quarter leads to teams like Arizona who are barley staying afloat as it is? Mabe you need to read the quote of the week thread.

 

[goldenlid]

I wonder how many guys on this site that have played football. CW gets some blame but players still have to make plays. No one is talking about the missed FG that ND could have won with well before the 4and 8 call. I just think people need to lay off of CW a bit because this is crazy.

 

[GoshenGipper]

I wonder how many guys on this site that have played football. CW gets some blame but players still have to make plays. No one is talking about the missed FG that ND could have won with well before the 4and 8 call. I just think people need to lay off of CW a bit because this is crazy.

I have, and yes the players do need to play a lot better, and some need to play harder too, but that still doesn't excuse going for it on 4th and 8. Yes I know Walker missed a FG, but what are the chances that he misses all three if you make the attempt. All he has to do is hit one of them and ND would have won the game in regulation. While I don't think Weis should be fired I think it might be a good idea to make a few staff changes during the off season.

 

[Timugen]

I wonder how many guys on this site that have played football. CW gets some blame but players still have to make plays. No one is talking about the missed FG that ND could have won with well before the 4and 8 call. I just think people need to lay off of CW a bit because this is crazy.

Really? Is it? He is responsible for recruiting the players. He is responsible for "developing" the players. He is responsible for the coaching (or lack-there-of) of the players. He is the one that calls the plays on game day. He is the one that makes the critical decisions on game day. So when something/everything goes wrong (and it's gone WAY PAST wrong this year) on the field he gets a pass? Sure.....makes sense to me.