Politics

[drayer54]

I’m told it was the worst 9/11 since Pearl Harbor. Odd that they would do this.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I’m old it was the worst 9/11 since Pearl Harbor. Odd that they would do this.

It was worse than 1812 when England conquered DC, burned the White House down and Dolly Madison was forced to run in and save the constitution.

The Civil War? Mere child's play.

Jan.6 was the darkest day in the nations history. Maybe even human history.

 

[bobbyok1]

It was worse than 1812 when England conquered DC, burned the White House down and Dolly Madison was forced to run in and save the constitution.

The Civil War? Mere child's play.

Jan.6 was the darkest day in the nations history. Maybe even human history.

Worst day in our history actually. The way that crowd of unarmed rebels stood around peacefully protesting until they had flash bangs and tear gas shot at them in a totally unnecessary fashion. Chilling.

The way the strolled along like a group of Chinese tourist in DC taking pictures inside those sacred halls. Terrifying.

The manner in which they tried to stop the mass of Antifa and Feds planted among from destroying property. Hard to watch.

How they peacefully exited after chumming it up with Capitol Police high fives and all. Gut wrenching.

A dark, dark day indeed.

 

[GATTACA!]

Worst day in our history actually. The way that crowd of unarmed rebels stood around peacefully protesting until they had flash bangs and tear gas shot at them in a totally unnecessary fashion. Chilling.

The way the strolled along like a group of Chinese tourist in DC taking pictures inside those sacred halls. Terrifying.

The manner in which they tried to stop the mass of Antifa and Feds planted among from destroying property. Hard to watch.

How they peacefully exited after chumming it up with Capitol Police high fives and all. Gut wrenching.

A dark, dark day indeed.

Completely disconnected from reality.

 

[drayer54]

Completely disconnected from reality.

Reality was deleted by the democrats to protect a narrative.

 

[Irish#1]

I can not believe that supporters of small government and deregulation, are *shocked* that the healthcare industry has institutional issues that having profit motives impeding quality of care. Therefore, I have concluded that the handful of trans kids must suffer and I know better.

Let me ask a simple question. Please do not answer it with something from the vortex, a question, "I'll let the doctors decide", or an "it depends". A simple A or B will suffice.

What is worse?
A) Going ahead with a sex change for an adolescent, then they realize it was a mistake and spend the rest of their life (40-60 years) as that choice, or B) making them wait until they're 18 (1-12 years) when they are better prepared to make this decision?

 

[TorontoGold]

Let me ask a simple question. Please do not answer it with something from the vortex, a question, "I'll let the doctors decide", or an "it depends". A simple A or B will suffice.

What is worse?
A) Going ahead with a sex change for an adolescent, then they realize it was a mistake and spend the rest of their life (40-60 years) as that choice, or B) making them wait until they're 18 (1-12 years) when they are better prepared to make this decision?

You’ve set the conditions so that B is the obviously correct answer.

Please answer my question, no “omg vortex” or “silly question”. Simple A or B will suffice.
A) Your child is suicidal and you’ve taken them to multiple health professionals and they’ve all said that gender affirming treatment is needed. Do you let them proceed?
B) You don’t go ahead with it and take the chance that they won’t commit suicide.

 

[Irish#1]

You’ve set the conditions so that B is the obviously correct answer.

Please answer my question, no “omg vortex” or “silly question”. Simple A or B will suffice.
A) Your child is suicidal and you’ve taken them to multiple health professionals and they’ve all said that gender affirming treatment is needed. Do you let them proceed?
B) You don’t go ahead with it and take the chance that they won’t commit suicide.

Why is B the obvious answer? Because you agree?

To answer your question. There are too many unknown variables to give you an answer. How old is the child? When did they first bring this to my attention? Why do they think they want to be a male or female? What type of gender affirming treatment? How do I know they're suicidal? What kind of suicidal tendencies do they display? How often are they displaying these tendencies? What type of health care professional? Are they part of the woke crowd, staunch conservative or somewhere in between? Can they genuinely keep their personal beliefs out of their analysis?

 

[TorontoGold]

Why is B the obvious answer? Because you agree?

To answer your question. There are too many unknown variables to give you an answer. How old is the child? When did they first bring this to my attention? Why do they think they want to be a male or female? What type of gender affirming treatment? How do I know they're suicidal? What kind of suicidal tendencies do they display? How often are they displaying these tendencies? What type of health care professional? Are they part of the woke crowd, staunch conservative or somewhere in between? Can they genuinely keep their personal beliefs out of their analysis?

It's obvious based on your framing. You've stated the child is going to realize it is a mistake, if it's going to be a mistake then it's going to be wrong.

I said based on the parameters given. Just A or B. Same as you asked me.

 

[GATTACA!]

Why is B the obvious answer? Because you agree?

To answer your question. There are too many unknown variables to give you an answer. How old is the child? When did they first bring this to my attention? Why do they think they want to be a male or female? What type of gender affirming treatment? How do I know they're suicidal? What kind of suicidal tendencies do they display? How often are they displaying these tendencies? What type of health care professional? Are they part of the woke crowd, staunch conservative or somewhere in between? Can they genuinely keep their personal beliefs out of their analysis?

Asking qualifiers means there's presumably some set of circumstances that would make you feel it was appropriate, no?

 

[bobbyok1]

Yeah, its all on the up and up isn't it? "There's no election interference."

"It's Republican politicians that said there wasn't any cheating in 2020!"

Nah, no cheating. Only attempted bribes by the AZ GOP Chairman to keep Kari Lake from running for Senate and both expressing fears of being murdered. Her for refusing to go along and him if people found out he was told to bribe Kari Lake.

 

[GATTACA!]

Yeah, its all on the up and up isn't it? "There's no election interference."

"It's Republican politicians that said there wasn't any cheating in 2020!"

Nah, no cheating. Only attempted bribes by the AZ GOP Chairman to keep Kari Lake from running for Senate and both expressing fears of being murdered. Her for refusing to go along and him if people found out he was told to bribe Kari Lake.

Last I had checked they had lost what 88 lawsuits over election interference? This “evidence” would have been some good stuff to bring up during those trials lmao.

Guy gets called on his bullshit and cites Tim Pool tweets and Kari Lake to defend himself 😂

 

[TorontoGold]

Asking qualifiers means there's presumably some set of circumstances that would make you feel it was appropriate, no?

I still want to know the logistics of doctors pushing gender affirming surgeries. Like do they really think doctors want to push this so some alt right freaks will dox them on Libs of TikTok?

“Hey kids sign up for a life of torment and be ostracized by a portion of the community! Come get transed today!”

Absolute brain melting stuff. I guess science is a liar, sometimes.

 

[ulukinatme]

I still want to know the logistics of doctors pushing gender affirming surgeries. Like do they really think doctors want to push this so some alt right freaks will dox them on Libs of TikTok?

“Hey kids sign up for a life of torment and be ostracized by a portion of the community! Come get transed today!”

Absolute brain melting stuff. I guess science is a liar, sometimes.

Yeah, these doctors do it out of the goodness of their hearts. Ethics go out the window when money is involved, just look at some plastic surgery horror stories, or gender affirming nightmares. The alternative is not doing the surgery and getting drug by the community, a group that already has a past of bad interactions with doctors. There was a piece a few years ago by NBC how half of trans people have had bad interactions with doctors and don't trust them. Refusal to follow through, failure to disclose side effects, inexperience handling trans situations. One patient told a doctor "It's too bad they don't teach you more about trans people in medical school" and the doctor replied "Well, there aren't that many of you" (Sounds like someone we know). The patient raised a stink, and all the doctors then got sent to trans sensitivity training. Ultimately it comes down to money, that's why you've got some doctors pushing parents, making ultimatums "Do you want a trans daughter, or a dead son?"

 

[PerthDomer]

Yeah, these doctors do it out of the goodness of their hearts. Ethics go out the window when money is involved, just look at some plastic surgery horror stories, or gender affirming nightmares. The alternative is not doing the surgery and getting drug by the community, a group that already has a past of bad interactions with doctors. There was a piece a few years ago by NBC how half of trans people have had bad interactions with doctors and don't trust them. Refusal to follow through, failure to disclose side effects, inexperience handling trans situations. One patient told a doctor "It's too bad they don't teach you more about trans people in medical school" and the doctor replied "Well, there aren't that many of you" (Sounds like someone we know). The patient raised a stink, and all the doctors then got sent to trans sensitivity training. Ultimately it comes down to money, that's why you've got some doctors pushing parents, making ultimatums "Do you want a trans daughter, or a dead son?"

By the time a trans kid gets to a transition team, they've generally made up their mind and have been seeking care for over a year. The physicians who prescribe meds are generally endocrinologists. Pediateic endocrinologist don't make much money whatever they do (less than poorly paid general pediatricians). Most trans kids don't get hormones. Most trans kids who get hormones don't get surgery. And the number of genital surgeries kids nationally is single digits. The surgeons don't act as the gatekeepers for gender transition teams.

In terms of Most medical things, this is less exposed to financial incentives than most.

 

[TorontoGold]

Yeah, these doctors do it out of the goodness of their hearts. Ethics go out the window when money is involved, just look at some plastic surgery horror stories, or gender affirming nightmares. The alternative is not doing the surgery and getting drug by the community, a group that already has a past of bad interactions with doctors. There was a piece a few years ago by NBC how half of trans people have had bad interactions with doctors and don't trust them. Refusal to follow through, failure to disclose side effects, inexperience handling trans situations. One patient told a doctor "It's too bad they don't teach you more about trans people in medical school" and the doctor replied "Well, there aren't that many of you" (Sounds like someone we know). The patient raised a stink, and all the doctors then got sent to trans sensitivity training. Ultimately it comes down to money, that's why you've got some doctors pushing parents, making ultimatums "Do you want a trans daughter, or a dead son?"

Can you explain how doctors make money off going forward with gender affirming surgeries?

I’m not as in the weeds as you are with the financial details of this. Please do share the actual numbers, that would really help to highlight your point. But, to a simple person like myself, it would seem to be more logical for a doctor - because you can’t just get a surgery like this done without a doctor rec - to have this patient on multiple prescription pills to treat the anxiety and depression instead of a one time surgery.

It’s all about the money right? Or is it about the morality? I can’t keep up!

Let’s say in your storey you wrote, you would say it’s a good thing these doctors took classes to better understand their patients, correct? You also mentioned that ethics go out the window when money is involved, presumably this would mean that these surgeries should be taxpayer funded to remove that profit motive for these big bad doctors? These negative points you mentioned, you wish these things were changed right, for the morality of the whole situation? You know, human beings?

I really didn’t think I’d see a conservative argue for tighter regulations and better educated doctors on LGBTQ people but it’s always nice to see!

 

[ulukinatme]

Can you explain how doctors make money off going forward with gender affirming surgeries?

I’m not as in the weeds as you are with the financial details of this. Please do share the actual numbers, that would really help to highlight your point. But, to a simple person like myself, it would seem to be more logical for a doctor - because you can’t just get a surgery like this done without a doctor rec - to have this patient on multiple prescription pills to treat the anxiety and depression instead of a one time surgery.

It’s all about the money right? Or is it about the morality? I can’t keep up!

Let’s say in your storey you wrote, you would say it’s a good thing these doctors took classes to better understand their patients, correct? You also mentioned that ethics go out the window when money is involved, presumably this would mean that these surgeries should be taxpayer funded to remove that profit motive for these big bad doctors? These negative points you mentioned, you wish these things were changed right, for the morality of the whole situation? You know, human beings?

I really didn’t think I’d see a conservative argue for tighter regulations and better educated doctors on LGBTQ people but it’s always nice to see!

So if they're not making money they're just eating the cost of the surgery then? Seems like a bad business model. I know over 40% of the country is in some form of medical debt, but hospitals seem to be doing quite well, at least in this area. The Dayton Kettering network has expanded by quite a few new buildings in the last 10 years, and every other high school field is funded by a hospital here. That's not really related, just an observation.

The financial numbers don't concern me, so I'm not in the weeds over that part, you can put that strawman away. I just pointed out that some of these doctors aren't concerned about the morality of the issue when money is involved. I've linked them in the past, but watch some videos where some doctors and former patients are interviewed. Parents and patients have been manipulated in the past for a payday. Like I said, it's not out of the question for a doctor to push treatments that aren't necessary so they can have a payoff, that's how the opioid problems first started. If doctors always did the right thing then malpractice wouldn't be a thing. I'm not trying to give doctors as a whole a bad name, the vast majority work long hours for their patients, but like any profession there are bad apples.

Where are you getting this garbage that tax payers should fund these surgeries? I think I've made it pretty clear kids shouldn't be mutilated, period. Tax payers shouldn't be footing the bill for adults either, why would that change anything? The doctor still gets paid regardless. Is it the tax payers fault an individual feels like they have dysphoria? As far as the story about the trans patient and the doctor, yeah, I don't see classes as being an issue. That wasn't the point. Money aside, there's pressure by the community to follow through and cover up transition regret and medical complications. There's no accurate numbers on it because researchers get threatened when they try to dig it up. All we have are stories that come out from patients that didn't get the full story on side effects by their doctors. "A piece of my brain screams alarm constantly at the wound unhealed." What do I know though. There's an awful lot of stories like this.

 

[Irish#1]

It's obvious based on your framing. You've stated the child is going to realize it is a mistake, if it's going to be a mistake then it's going to be wrong.

I said based on the parameters given. Just A or B. Same as you asked me.

I can assure you I did not frame the question to elicit a specific answer. Given your previous posts, it wouldn't have surprised me for you to select A and suggest they could look into options to reverse and take advantage of health care professionals to work through the decision. You did your best to avoid answering which tells me you feel B is more appropriate.

The difference between your question and mine, is I gave you parameters and you don't like the parameters. Like you, I responded in my best Toronto impersonation.

When did doctors have an agenda get inserted into the conversation? Overall, I don't think doctors have an agenda. Just like there is a small percentage of bad cops out of the 700K, I think there is a small percentage of doctors out of the million practicing in the US that we have to be cautious about. As an example, when I found out I had prostate cancer, I went and spoke to four different doctors. Each had a particular preference for how to treat. I then met with the head of Urology at IU hospital who would not be taking me on as a patient, so he didn't have a horse in the race. Interesting that one of the doctors I met with who recommended radiation failed to mention the scarring that occurs. If the cancer came back, I was out of luck because the scarring would prevent the removal of the prostate without having to butcher the bladder.

 

[TorontoGold]

So is it A or B? No vortex, no spin, just an answer like you had asked of me.

 

[Irish#1]

So is it A or B? No vortex, no spin, just an answer like you had asked of me.

When you answer mine, I'll answer yours.

 

[GATTACA!]

When you answer mine, I'll answer yours.

 

[TorontoGold]

When you answer mine, I'll answer yours.

I said B. Simple ask for you to answer mine.

I know I'm the vortex master and ultimate question twister, but surely you can respond to Gattaca's?

 

[Irish#1]

I appreciate the compliment, but the Matrix is child's play compared to the Vortex.

 

[Irish#1]

I said B. Simple ask for you to answer mine.

I know I'm the vortex master and ultimate question twister, but surely you can respond to Gattaca's?

Now that we're clear on that, my answer is B. See, it's not that hard.

 

[TorontoGold]

Now that we're clear on that, my answer is B. See, it's not that hard.

Just to confirm, you've answered B that you would take the risk that your child will not commit suicide against the guidance given from the medical team?

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

New Hampshire exit polls showed 70% of Haley voters were not registered Republicans.

 

[GATTACA!]

New Hampshire exit polls showed 70% of Haley voters were not registered Republicans.

Can’t be. Bobbyok’s twitter feed has me absolutely convinced Donald is the best with non republicans.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Can’t be. Bobbyok’s twitter feed has me absolutely convinced Donald is the best with non republicans.

Cost of the blue checkmark gets you a lot these days.

 

[Irish#1]

New Hampshire exit polls showed 70% of Haley voters were not registered Republicans.

Our political system is so screwed up. We'd be better off throwing everyone into one bucket with no parties and whomever gets the most votes is the winner.

 

[Bishop2b5]

https://ssnews.page.link/cTre3E1eRBPwp2ar7

Ohio has restricted gender reassignment surgery, puberty blockers, and hormone treatment for minors, required parental permission to diagnose and treat gender dysphoria, and banned genetic males from playing on female sports teams in high school and college. The pendulum is starting to swing back towards reality and sanity.