Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

PerthDomer

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What happened to Baby Indi is the new trend as governments push to eliminate the drainers from society. Medically assisted death (MAID) was the #4 cause of death in 2022 for Canada. They are now pushing, I mean, offering these programs to addicts and other downtrodden individuals. Where will this end? Heck, Bloomberg ran for President in the United States and stated in a debate about his plan to rid of US of its drainers and no one batted an eye. Truly sickening.


This is separate from what's going on in Canada. There are a number of awful and incurable diseases that afflict kids and different countries deal with them differently.

In the UK generally avoiding pain/futile care when something incurable and progressive afflicts a kid takes precedence.

In the US they usually ignore the kids interest in that scenario and default to the parent.

In Italy they generally make withdrawl/redirection of care very difficult and hard to do.

This kid has a mitochondrial disorder. That means every organ, but especially the metabolically active ones are impacted. These disorders as a rule get worse. The cutting edge treatments don't make you better, but generally slow the decline.

The kids frequently have exaggerated responses to pain. They get a lot of seizures. They slowly lose control of their bodies and need a tracheostomy/gtube. Eventually the seizures burn their brain away which fortunately solves the pain problem, but takes away their ability to interact with the world.

Generally in these circumstances the family fixated on how their kid used to be when healthy. Those are the pictures/videos you see from them. The hospital can't say much in the press due to privacy laws. You'll frequently get an outside center that says they have some cool experimental protocol they think the kid is perfect for and then once they see the records they say nope. Never mind.

In the US or Italy this kids fate would be hanging out in a long term care facility and getting periodic admission to the ICU with lung infections until they inevitably die. In Britain they say it's in the kids interest not to pursue more interventions to get to that point and they withdraw care.

If you look at these cases in the UK they aren't getting more common and generally follow the same script.
 

yankeehater

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This is separate from what's going on in Canada. There are a number of awful and incurable diseases that afflict kids and different countries deal with them differently.

In the UK generally avoiding pain/futile care when something incurable and progressive afflicts a kid takes precedence.

In the US they usually ignore the kids interest in that scenario and default to the parent.

In Italy they generally make withdrawl/redirection of care very difficult and hard to do.

This kid has a mitochondrial disorder. That means every organ, but especially the metabolically active ones are impacted. These disorders as a rule get worse. The cutting edge treatments don't make you better, but generally slow the decline.

The kids frequently have exaggerated responses to pain. They get a lot of seizures. They slowly lose control of their bodies and need a tracheostomy/gtube. Eventually the seizures burn their brain away which fortunately solves the pain problem, but takes away their ability to interact with the world.

Generally in these circumstances the family fixated on how their kid used to be when healthy. Those are the pictures/videos you see from them. The hospital can't say much in the press due to privacy laws. You'll frequently get an outside center that says they have some cool experimental protocol they think the kid is perfect for and then once they see the records they say nope. Never mind.

In the US or Italy this kids fate would be hanging out in a long term care facility and getting periodic admission to the ICU with lung infections until they inevitably die. In Britain they say it's in the kids interest not to pursue more interventions to get to that point and they withdraw care.

If you look at these cases in the UK they aren't getting more common and generally follow the same script.
That is where most see the problem. The gov't made the decision and not the child's parents. Moving the child for care to Italy would have been at no cost to the UK either.
 

PerthDomer

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That is where most see the problem. The gov't made the decision and not the child's parents. Moving the child for care to Italy would have been at no cost to the UK either.

We have a threshold to overrule parents as well, it's generally if they refuse an obvious advantageous procedure (chemo for low risk cancer). In my experience with this patient population, I'd rather we went the UK's route on the other side of the coin.

For a kid like this many centers would also refuse the at home stuff the parents were asking for. These kids are so resource intensive that home hospice just doesn't work.

My point though is more that this doesn't represent a change in standards. This has been where they've been at for a long time, and honestly our do whatever approach is more of a modern approach. The old guys who trained me would often look around the unit and say "20 years ago we weren't fooling around and doing this crap."

It's not a question of money, it's where they land on the ethics of futile care. These cases are so rare in pediatrics that the impact on overall medical budgets is relatively small.
 

Irish#1

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We have a threshold to overrule parents as well, it's generally if they refuse an obvious advantageous procedure (chemo for low risk cancer). In my experience with this patient population, I'd rather we went the UK's route on the other side of the coin.

For a kid like this many centers would also refuse the at home stuff the parents were asking for. These kids are so resource intensive that home hospice just doesn't work.

My point though is more that this doesn't represent a change in standards. This has been where they've been at for a long time, and honestly our do whatever approach is more of a modern approach. The old guys who trained me would often look around the unit and say "20 years ago we weren't fooling around and doing this crap."

It's not a question of money, it's where they land on the ethics of futile care. These cases are so rare in pediatrics that the impact on overall medical budgets is relatively small.
I thought the parents just wanted to take her home for her final day(s) knowing she was going tp pass quickly, so hospice care really isn't an issue. Did I misread the article?
 

PerthDomer

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I thought the parents just wanted to take her home for her final day(s) knowing she was going tp pass quickly, so hospice care really isn't an issue. Did I misread the article?

These kids generally don't die suddenly. They slowly suffocate and die of air hunger, frequently over the course of several days. In the hospital they get palliative sedation to ease that pain.

You basically need to transport over a whole ICU to make that happen in a humane way.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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These kids generally don't die suddenly. They slowly suffocate and die of air hunger, frequently over the course of several days. In the hospital they get palliative sedation to ease that pain.

You basically need to transport over a whole ICU to make that happen in a humane way.
I can’t imagine having to make that call but I’d have to think slowly suffocating to death with zero prognosis of a return to health is what I’d choose as a state of being for my child. Anything but a release would be inhumane imo. Such a terrible thing for the child to go through and for the parents to deal with.
 

PerthDomer

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I can’t imagine having to make that call but I’d have to think slowly suffocating to death with zero prognosis of a return to health is what I’d choose as a state of being for my child. Anything but a release would be inhumane imo. Such a terrible thing for the child to go through and for the parents to deal with.

Yea it's not a fun part of the job. You can see why a lot of parents whose kids die get divorced. You frequently see different family members grieve differently, want to make different calls etc. I had a kid with terminal cancer have her last words to her mom be something to the effect of Stop it! No more! Then she lost consciousness and the mom demanded we intubTe her and place chest tubes. The dad blew up at her and basically said "can't you see, she's dead?". It took several days to show her things were terminal and I think every doc and nurse taking care of her felt gross about what they were doing.

But that's where I'm coming from when I read complaints about the British system. Generally if the medical team and family have come to loggerheads after working together for months something is up with the family.
 

Irish#1

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Yea it's not a fun part of the job. You can see why a lot of parents whose kids die get divorced. You frequently see different family members grieve differently, want to make different calls etc. I had a kid with terminal cancer have her last words to her mom be something to the effect of Stop it! No more! Then she lost consciousness and the mom demanded we intubTe her and place chest tubes. The dad blew up at her and basically said "can't you see, she's dead?". It took several days to show her things were terminal and I think every doc and nurse taking care of her felt gross about what they were doing.

But that's where I'm coming from when I read complaints about the British system. Generally if the medical team and family have come to loggerheads after working together for months something is up with the family.
Appreciate the insight.
 

Irish#1

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Listening to Clay Travis today. He said he was being audited by the IRS. Said he paid over $10 million in taxes last year and the IRS says he owes $39 and change. lol

He's never been audited before, but they want to look at his laptop and any other devices just to make sure he had all the proper documentation. lol
 

drayer54

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Listening to Clay Travis today. He said he was being audited by the IRS. Said he paid over $10 million in taxes last year and the IRS says he owes $39 and change. lol

He's never been audited before, but they want to look at his laptop and any other devices just to make sure he had all the proper documentation. lol
Lots of conservative groups are getting audited. Even as the Abrams election project has financial issues arising, we've seen this before.

On the plus side- Dems are finally divided, and I'm glad they are getting to see their people up close.


Waiting for the dems to come down on this one...

 

Sea Turtle

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Lots of conservative groups are getting audited. Even as the Abrams election project has financial issues arising, we've seen this before.

On the plus side- Dems are finally divided, and I'm glad they are getting to see their people up close.


Waiting for the dems to come down on this one...



Oh my.
 

Irish#1

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Lots of conservative groups are getting audited. Even as the Abrams election project has financial issues arising, we've seen this before.

On the plus side- Dems are finally divided, and I'm glad they are getting to see their people up close.


Waiting for the dems to come down on this one...


Mayhem? lol
 

ab2cmiller

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There's no chance he could get reelected. Right? Right?
You would think, but given the history of voters, no guarantees. I assumed he would run for reelection regardless so that he could syphon off contributions for his own personal gain.
 

Irish#1

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Could be opening themselves up for a lawsuit if a regular guy tried to enroll.
 
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