Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

chicago51

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This isn't the federal government coming in and taking over. Speaking of which, were you okay with President Eisenhower sending federal troops into Little Rock in 1957? What about when Truman nationalized the Steel industry in 1952? What about when FDR signed the Emergency Banking Act that outlawed all banks not approved by the federal government?!

If you want serious overreaches of governmental power, you're going to need to look past a state government taking emergency control of city that has proven it cannot manage itself, and look at the federal government.

When the federal government steps in, then I'll be on your side in this scenario.

Were talking about the nullification of the right to vote. Those situations may or may not be overreaches but they are not in conflict with constitutional rights.

I guess you can make the case that Detriot is so awful that voting rights need be restricted in the same of public safety. Pro gun control arguements would make a similar arguement in terms of restricting the 2nd amendment. I think though using the financial ruin of Detriot as an endangerment of public safety is a strech.

Again the public overturned this and the lame duck state legistlature just slapped them in the face.
 

Redbar

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Detroit will be one of six cities under emergency managers, leaving nine percent of the state's population without democratically elected leadership. Most of the cities are majority African-American. With the Detroit appointment 49 percent of the state's African-American population is under emergency managers. The fact that the people overturned this law when given an opportunity to vote against it and the republican legislature brought it back against their will is bad enough. That they used that authority to nullify the votes of half of the African Americans in the state is incredibly disturbing, no matter how bad things are in Detroit. At best this looks terrible politically.

What is it at worst? Or even better, what do you think the real motivation is?
 

GoIrish41

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What is it at worst? Or even better, what do you think the real motivation is?

I don't know. Perhaps it is to break the spirit of African American voters by removing them from the Democratic process. Polling from the last election make it pretty clear that the majority of African Americans vote for Democrats and having them stay at home with the feeling that their vote isn't going to be counted could make a difference in future elections. It would likely have made a difference in the presidental election if it would have been done earlier. Seems like there are efforts afoot across the country where Republicans are in charge to stack the deck in coming elections, including the 14 Congressional races.

If I was a cynic, I might think that this practice and where it is applied in Michigan smacks of racism, demostrating to ignorant African Americans the need for the white majority to step in and save them from themselves. But, I wouldn't want to appear cynical.
 
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Buster Bluth

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If I was a cynic, I might think that this practice and where it is applied in Michigan smacks of racism, demostrating to ignorant African Americans the need for the white majority to step in and save them from themselves. But, I wouldn't want to appear cynical.

You're joking right?

Detroit has something like $15billion in unfunded liabilities and is staring apocalyptic bankruptcy and ruin right in the face. The threat of state takeover has been around for years and they did absolutely nothing to change course.

You know what disenfranchises black people in Detroit? Electing criminals to office who are only motivated to pay off particular Baptist ministers and get reelected on how black they are. I'm not joking. Look up the mayoral campaign for which the central issue was that one candidate was 100% black and the other was a "halfrican." That literally decided the election, the guy went from winning by a large margin to getting crushed.

What is the state to do? Let Detroit commit fiscal suicide and watch as major corporations decide to flee the city and seek more stable cities outside the state? That would not only put every Detroit citizen in harms way, but every citizen of Michigan.

The state is sending a bankruptcy lawyer in to manage the fiscal situation, otherwise it would go to the courts and....the same thing would happen.
 

Redbar

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You're joking right?

Detroit has something like $15billion in unfunded liabilities and is staring apocalyptic bankruptcy and ruin right in the face. The threat of state takeover has been around for years and they did absolutely nothing to change course.

You know what disenfranchises black people in Detroit? Electing criminals to office who are only motivated to pay off particular Baptist ministers and get reelected on how black they are. I'm not joking. Look up the mayoral campaign for which the central issue was that one candidate was 100% black and the other was a "halfrican." That literally decided the election, the guy went from winning by a large margin to getting crushed.

What is the state to do? Let Detroit commit fiscal suicide and watch as major corporations decide to flee the city and seek more stable cities outside the state? That would not only put every Detroit citizen in harms way, but every citizen of Michigan.

The state is sending a bankruptcy lawyer in to manage the fiscal situation, otherwise it would go to the courts and....the same thing would happen.

It sounds like you are agreeing, in a way, with the person that you asked, "if they were joking?"
 

GoIrish41

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You're joking right?

Detroit has something like $15billion in unfunded liabilities and is staring apocalyptic bankruptcy and ruin right in the face. The threat of state takeover has been around for years and they did absolutely nothing to change course.

You know what disenfranchises black people in Detroit? Electing criminals to office who are only motivated to pay off particular Baptist ministers and get reelected on how black they are. I'm not joking. Look up the mayoral campaign for which the central issue was that one candidate was 100% black and the other was a "halfrican." That literally decided the election, the guy went from winning by a large margin to getting crushed.

What is the state to do? Let Detroit commit fiscal suicide and watch as major corporations decide to flee the city and seek more stable cities outside the state? That would not only put every Detroit citizen in harms way, but every citizen of Michigan.

The state is sending a bankruptcy lawyer in to manage the fiscal situation, otherwise it would go to the courts and....the same thing would happen.

So, you are advocating for the removal of elected officials from public office when their city is in financial crisis? How about states? Heck, how about federal representatives from the states? Hard to argue that anybody is more screwed up than the federal government right now. The bafoons we have in office have certainly made quite a mess of things -- massive debt, high unemployment, unsustainable programs that will guarantee things will get worse in the future, a high percentage of people living below the poverty line. It goes on and on. Should the president step in and nullify the votes of state citizens who sent these bafoons to Congress? Where would he draw the line? Somewhere below Bachmann? Cruz? How bad to they have to be before someone replaces them? Who decides? Shouldn't the president send someone of his choosing to take their place so he can save the moronic citizens of Minnesota from themselves? Things would surely get done more quickly. That's what the country wants, right? We'd probably have a cohesive plan put swiftly into action. Nah, we can't do that. That would simply be an outrageous abuse of executive power. And so it is in Michigan.
 
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chicago51

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A financial transaction tax on wall street of 3 cents per $100 would raise $352 billion over 10 years. Rest of the country pays a sales tax on pretty much everything why should Wall Street be exempt? We are only talking 0.03 percent.

[OID-IDO]
 
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Buster Bluth

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So, you are advocating for the removal of elected officials from public office when their city is in financial crisis? How about states? Heck, how about federal representatives from the states? Hard to argue that anybody is more screwed up than the federal government right now. The bafoons we have in office have certainly made quite a mess of things -- massive debt, high unemployment, unsustainable programs that will guarantee things will get worse in the future, a high percentage of people living below the poverty line. It goes on and on. Should the president step in and nullify the votes of state citizens who sent these bafoons to Congress? Where would he draw the line? Somewhere below Bachmann? Cruz? How bad to they have to be before someone replaces them? Who decides? Shouldn't the president send someone of his choosing to take their place so he can save the moronic citizens of Minnesota from themselves? Things would surely get done more quickly. That's what the country wants, right? We'd probably have a cohesive plan put swiftly into action. Nah, we can't do that. That would simply be an outrageous abuse of executive power. And so it is in Michigan.

I'm normally more accepting of state's acting to get their state in order than the federal government stepping in to do anything. Simply put, I trust a state government 80 miles away acting over a federal government 450 miles away (in Detroit's case).

I'm not a big fan of what is happening in Detroit. It's a ****** situation. But if you had to give me two options, this or the course Detroit was on, this is the one I would pick. Detroit is in a desperate situation and the state feels that it has to take desperate measures. Detroit has had several years to fix its fiscal situation, and they didn't do it.

I think it's pretty difficult to make a judgment on this until one reads about the shocking corruption Detroit has had in recent years. In 2001 they elected a 31-year old Kwame Kilpatrick to run the show; he immediately tanked the city and ran up over $210,000 in personal entertainment, meals, and travel charges in less than three years. Yet somehow, he was reelected on that whole "half-black mayor" election. He used the race card against a black guy, and won. That's how messed up Detroit is. His family, I believe, once likened whistle-blowers at the Mayoral Mansion to Jewish lies about Germany in the 1930s (lol wut). To top it off, he dropped n-bombs in a State of the City speech in 2008 in a pathetic attempt to regain the people.

Detroit has some of the saddest race relations in the country. The suburbs and the city have populations that vehemently oppose one another, and the economic downfall of the situation has only exacerbated things. Whites blame the blacks for moving in and letting their old neighborhoods fall into disrepair, and blacks blame the whites for moving out and taking their investment with them.

When Ford tried to integrate their factories, they put just a handful of black guys on the line and 25,000 whites walked out that very day. The race relations haven't gotten much better. Couple that with backroom deals with public sector unions (some of the most corrupt in the country), and an ignorant mayor/council getting destroyed in negotiations for other bills...and you've got a situation that absolutely requires an outside authority.

This is, for all intents and purposes, the nuclear option. And it was started, for the record, by Democrat Gov. Granholm years ago. Hopefully the state will create a regional government with tax sharing so proper investment can flow into the city once again, but before that the governor's man (Kevyn Orr, who is a life-long Democrat and black) has to undo more than a decade of outright fiscal abuse. The kind of fiscal abuse that got Kwame Kilpatrick convicted of twenty federal felonies a week ago, after the FBI launched an investigation to prove that Kilpatrick was illegally awarding city contracts to relatives and friendly companies. That's the sort of stuff Michigan is undoing. It should be over in eighteen months, Kevyn Orr is the same guy who lead Chrysler's 2009 bankruptcy team that saved the corporation and, wait for it, helped Detroit in the process. He's a Michigan alumnus, son of a pastor, black, and a Democrat. Detroit will learn to love him, even if its has to go the hard way.

EDIT: Kwame Kilpatrick sure looks like he knows how to operate one of the largest cities in America:

kwame.jpg
 
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Buster Bluth

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A financial transaction tax on wall street of 3 cents per $100 would raise $352 billion over 10 years. Rest of the country pays a sales tax on pretty much everything why should Wall Street be exempt? We are only talking 0.03 percent.

[OID-IDO]

This is probably something I could get behind.
 

Ndaccountant

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What happened in Cyprus is why I am a libertarian. A government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take everything away. I still can't believe the EU and the IMF allowed this. This just proves nothing is safe from government.
 

Irish Houstonian

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What happened in Cyprus is why I am a libertarian. A government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take everything away. I still can't believe the EU and the IMF allowed this. This just proves nothing is safe from government.

^Agreed. Spain and Italy are next.

And it's not too far fetched to imagine such a tax on our own deposits.

Could The "Cyprus Fiasco" Occur In The United States? | Zero Hedge

Will Congress do this? Obviously, nobody can answer that question now. However, it was "absolutely certain" as recently as 48 hours ago that Cyprus too would see no depositor "bail in" either. Then things changed rapidly. What is known, is that according to the same BCG chart we showed last night, the necessary debt-reduction needed in the US to reach a sustainable debt level, was over $8.2 trillion using debt numbers as of 2009.

Since then consolidated US debt has risen by over $5 trillion.

Which means that if, indeed, the US proceeds with its own wealth tax, then deposits may well be one "wealth class" that gets impaired. Of course, since in the US other financial assets, namely the stock market, account for a far greater proportion of household net worth, it is quite possible that instead of impairing deposits at US banks, which already subsist solely due to the Fed's $2 trillion in excess reserves, the government may instead choose to generously tax simple 30% of all of your stock holdings, and achieve the same "wealth transfer" result.
 

Black Irish

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A financial transaction tax on wall street of 3 cents per $100 would raise $352 billion over 10 years. Rest of the country pays a sales tax on pretty much everything why should Wall Street be exempt? We are only talking 0.03 percent.

[OID-IDO]

So we should pay a tax just for the privilege of investing our money? And, of course, there's no guarantee that you actually make money on those transactions. Comparing the transaction tax to a sales tax is apples and oranges.
 
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enrico514

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What happened in Cyprus is why I am a libertarian. A government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take everything away. I still can't believe the EU and the IMF allowed this. This just proves nothing is safe from government.

I'm pretty sure the EU (French and Germans!) actually demanded it!
 
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enrico514

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So we should pay a tax just for the privilege of investing our money? And, of course, there's no guarantee that you actually make money on those transactions. Comparing the transaction tax to a sales tax is apples and oranges.

A transaction tax on short term trading and speculation would probably be healthy. Investments held over a certain time frame should be exempt.
 

enrico514

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Ndaccountant

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I'm pretty sure the EU (French and Germans!) actually demanded it!

I could be wrong on this (probably am), but I thought the EU demanded that they come up with a certain amount of funds on their end to "contribute" to the bailout. How they got those funds it was up to them.

IMO, this is all intentional. If this goes over without much fanfare, you better believe on the of the PIGS will try something similar.
 

chicago51

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What is the GOP's plan to reach out and get more minority votes?

Likely filibuster President Obama's Hispanic Labor Secretary appointment not because he is not qualified but to use this nominee as a hostage to get changes to his department.

Washington Post
 
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potownhero

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What is the GOP's plan to reach out and get more minority votes?

Likely filibuster President Obama's Hispanic not because he is not qualified but to use this nominee as a hostage to get changes to his department.

Washington Post

How about Opportunity and Growth. Maybe a job or shot at prosperity instead of shared misery.

Conservatives don't look at the color of one's skin but at their content. Why are democrats constantly pitching one group against another?

"Obama's Hispanic"?

Wow...we now can see how you liberals see people...
 
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How about Opportunity and Growth. Maybe a job or shot at prosperity instead of shared misery.

Conservatives don't look at the color of one's skin but at their content. Why are democrats constantly pitching one group against another?

"Obama's Hispanic"?

Wow...we now can see how you liberals see people...

Really?
 

chicago51

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How about Opportunity and Growth. Maybe a job or shot at prosperity instead of shared misery.

Conservatives don't look at the color of one's skin but at their content. Why are democrats constantly pitching one group against another?

"Obama's Hispanic"?

Wow...we now can see how you liberals see people...

I added in nominee for labor secretary in the edit. This phone is funny sometimes when I put stuff in.

Shared Misery? Have you seen the corporate profits and the stock market. If Obama is trying to be a socialist he is doing a bad job.

If we had passed the American Jobs Act and the didn't have all the government employee layoffs driven by GOP which the President to his failure agreed to unemployment would be under 6 percent. I know people are skeptical about CBO projections on Jobs Acts but even if you just took the math from the layoffs the unemployment would be at 7.
 
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enrico514

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I could be wrong on this (probably am), but I thought the EU demanded that they come up with a certain amount of funds on their end to "contribute" to the bailout. How they got those funds it was up to them.

IMO, this is all intentional. If this goes over without much fanfare, you better believe on the of the PIGS will try something similar.

You are right... that is how it was originally presented. But in this case it's really important to look behind the curtain.

As reported this afternoon by Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013...prus-stumbled-insight-idUSBRE92H0RH20130318):

Merkel's government and EU officials were determined to make depositors pay.

From the outset, the Cypriot delegation seems to have misunderstood the determination of Merkel and other leaders to force Cypriot depositors to pay.

According to three sources, European Central Bank board member Joerg Asmussen and euro zone finance ministers' representative Thomas Wieser had worked on a plan that would require just that - a high levy on only uninsured deposits.

And finally the icing on the cake from this evening (ekathimerini.com | Report: Anastasiades tells Rehn: 'I told you tax wouldn't pass. Regards to Mrs Merkel'

According to Mega TV, Anastasiades is reported to have said to Rehn and Brok: “When I warned you that there would not be a parliamentary majority to pass the agreement, you didn’t want to listen. Give my regards to Mrs Merkel.” The article does end with this: The Cypriot president’s reported comments have not been confirmed.
 
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DSully1995

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How about Opportunity and Growth. Maybe a job or shot at prosperity instead of shared misery.

Conservatives don't look at the color of one's skin but at their content. Why are democrats constantly pitching one group against another?

"Obama's Hispanic"?

Wow...we now can see how you liberals see people...

irony.jpg
 

DSully1995

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The proof is in the pudding my man; he said it and saw him only as a "Hispanic".


I love how liberals tug at peoples emotions instead of appealing to reason.

When do you make a better decision, when acting emotionally or logically...?
the irony is that you claimed liberals are always separating into groups and attacking, by separating people into liberal and attacking them...
 
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