Politics

[irishpat183]

That makes no sense at all. If something can be saved and it will help people, then it should be saved.

If your heart quits, you don't want the doctor to resuscitate you? Just chalk it up to a poor diet or something and you'll wait for reincarnation?

Making sense??? You want to save a failed business model by screwing over tax payers down the line?


Good lord. No wonder CA is in an economic cesspool.


Sometimes, in order to save something...it must know failure first.

 

[irishpat183]

lol.

But...You have to admit, she looks pretty good for 75...I think she sleeps in Michael Jackson's hyperbaric chamber. She's basically Joan Rivers of the House.

She looks like Skeletor.

Better than Debbie Wasserman Schultz AKA Dee Snyder from Twisted Sister

 

[BobD]

Sometimes, in order to save something...it must know failure first.

Ok when do you start to improve?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Ok when do you start to improve?

IE ToughGuy of the Year Darkhorse!

Now that woolybug is gone BobD sees his chance.

 

[BobD]

IE ToughGuy of the Year Darkhorse!

Now that woolybug is gone BobD sees his chance.

Haha, nah it's just a slow day here at work. 70 and sunny outside, so those of us still at work have lots of spare time to ruffle feathers on the internet.

 

[Black Irish]

And...wait for it......What else was in that bill?

Sadly, people like Nazi Pelosi dont' like to read bills before they pass them. I'm betting there was a fair amount of pork in that one.

Every single penny in a bill should be voted on seperately.

Typical politican will try and say republicans are greedy and want all our jobs to go to china because they won't vote for that bill....(yet it's full of other garbage that they fail to mention)

+1. This is why there should be a line item veto for the President. Congress gets away with too much pork dealing with riders and add-ons to bills. A bill gets titles "Save American Jobs and be Nice to Moms and Puppies." But the bill contains a bunch of unrelated pork and special interest giveaways. So a congressman votes against it because of all the garbage and he gets crucified for voting against jobs, moms, and puppies. We don't just need to toss the bums out of Congress, we really need to change the shady, dishonest way that they do business.

 

[chicago51]

What's the name of the bill?

Creating American Jobs and Ending Offshoring Act.

 

[Downinthebend]

+1. This is why there should be a line item veto for the President. Congress gets away with too much pork dealing with riders and add-ons to bills. A bill gets titles "Save American Jobs and be Nice to Moms and Puppies." But the bill contains a bunch of unrelated pork and special interest giveaways. So a congressman votes against it because of all the garbage and he gets crucified for voting against jobs, moms, and puppies. We don't just need to toss the bums out of Congress, we really need to change the shady, dishonest way that they do business.

I think involving the president more in legislative actions would be an attack on the separation of powers.

 

[chicago51]

I think involving the president more in legislative actions would be an attack on the separation of powers.

I agree 100 percent.

Congress stinks but that is what elections are for.

The president has enough power. With unlimited media access he already can use the bully pulpit to pressure Congress. The president can already propose and veto bills. Plus he can attack anyone and just say it was a police action.

The fact is regardless of the individual the office itself has too much power.

 

[Black Irish]

I think involving the president more in legislative actions would be an attack on the separation of powers.

The president already has veto power. Line item would simply make that power more surgical and specific rather than the all or nothing approach we currently have. I'd like to think that the mere threat of a line item veto would spur Congress to create more targeted, pork-free bills. But I may just be having one of my rare bouts of optimistic wishful thinking. Maybe it's the whiskey.

 

[connor_in]

YouTube

Skeet Surfin'

 

[NDFan4Life]

National debt up $6 trillion since Obama took office

Less than two months into President Obama's second term, new numbers show the national debt increased by more than $6 trillion since he took office.

It's the largest increase to date under any U.S. president. During the eight-year presidency of George W. Bush, the debt soared by $4.9 trillion.

Without fanfare, the Bureau of Public Debt at the Treasury Department quietly posted its daily debt report showing the total public debt of the U.S. government topped $16.687 trillion. (To be exact: $16,687,289,180,215.37)

On January 20, 2009, the day Mr. Obama took office, the debt stood at $10.626 trillion. The latest posting reflects an increase of over $6 trillion.

The dubious fiscal milestone came on same day as Mr. Obama and congressional leaders met to discuss the $85 billion in automatic indiscriminate spending cuts that start to take effect today.

The president wanted a package of targeted spending cuts and elimination of tax breaks to avert the mandatory reductions in spending that he says will adversely effect people nationwide. No deal was reached.

"I told them these cuts will hurt our economy. They will cost us jobs," the president said of his meeting.

But the struggle to come up with just $85 billion in spending reductions or tax hikes is a big part of the reason why the national debt continues to expand.

Contributing to the National Debt, the federal deficit has topped $1 trillion four years running. Mr. Obama has routinely blamed his predecessor for policies that has sent the debt soaring on his watch.

"A debt that has grown over the last decade, primarily as a result of two wars, two massive tax cuts, and an unprecedented financial crisis, will have to be paid down," he said in a speech last year.

The White House says Mr. Obama is working with Congress to complete work on a $4 trillion reduction in deficits.

Nevertheless, the Office of Management and Budget projects the national debt will continue to increase by over $800 billion this year and by amounts in the range of $500 billion to $800 billion in the out years - all of which will add to the national debt.

National debt up $6 trillion since Obama took office - CBS News

 

[BobD]

It cracks me up that some people actually believe our financial mess is a republican or democratic thing. Our problem is an "all of us" thing. We wouldn't elect someone who told us the truth. We vote for whomever tells us the best bullshit story closest to our own personal beliefs. The good news is we've perfected the art of turning bullshit into solid gold, but in order for it to happen, both sides have to work together 2 or 3 days a year. Right now they can't do that because a very small group of butt hurt republican leaders are acting like children. That's ok though, in less than two years they will lose the last majority they have, for a long, long time.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

It cracks me up that some people actually believe our financial mess is a republican or democratic thing. Our problem is an "all of us" thing. We wouldn't elect someone who told us the truth. We vote for whomever tells us the best bullshit story closest to our own personal beliefs. The good news is we've perfected the art of turning bullshit into solid gold, but in order for it to happen, both sides have to work together 2 or 3 days a year. Right now they can't do that because a very small group of butt hurt republican leaders are acting like children. That's ok though, in less than two years they will lose the last majority they have, for a long, long time.

This. Good post.

 

[Black Irish]

It cracks me up that some people actually believe our financial mess is a republican or democratic thing. Our problem is an "all of us" thing. We wouldn't elect someone who told us the truth. We vote for whomever tells us the best bullshit story closest to our own personal beliefs. The good news is we've perfected the art of turning bullshit into solid gold, but in order for it to happen, both sides have to work together 2 or 3 days a year. Right now they can't do that because a very small group of butt hurt republican leaders are acting like children. That's ok though, in less than two years they will lose the last majority they have, for a long, long time.

So Republicans and Democrats are both full of sh!t, but a few Republicans are acting like "butt hurt children" because they aren't going along with the bullsh!t? I'm confused.

 

[chicago51]

Happy Anniversary!

Today is the 100 year anniversary of tax breaks for big oil companies.

 

[chicago51]

So Republicans and Democrats are both full of sh!t, but a few Republicans are acting like "butt hurt children" because they aren't going along with the bullsh!t? I'm confused.

Because the Democrats for the most part were willing to compromise on cuts. Yet the some tea party GOP put their oath to Grover Norquist ahead of the United States. They don't think the rich should pay one more cent but want do things like gut the food stamp program.

If you think the deficit is a problem right now which I don't then it makes sense that we all share in reducing such deficit. The the tea part does not want the wealthy to share at all in the process.

 

[Redbar]

So Republicans and Democrats are both full of sh!t, but a few Republicans are acting like "butt hurt children" because they aren't going along with the bullsh!t? I'm confused.

They created the vast majority of the B.S. and can't wait to get back to more of it (i.e. regulating women), but they will pretend they had a come to Jesus moment while they are in the best position to make sure it never happens.

 

[Redbar]

National debt up $6 trillion since Obama took office

Less than two months into President Obama's second term, new numbers show the national debt increased by more than $6 trillion since he took office.

It's the largest increase to date under any U.S. president. During the eight-year presidency of George W. Bush, the debt soared by $4.9 trillion.

Without fanfare, the Bureau of Public Debt at the Treasury Department quietly posted its daily debt report showing the total public debt of the U.S. government topped $16.687 trillion. (To be exact: $16,687,289,180,215.37)

On January 20, 2009, the day Mr. Obama took office, the debt stood at $10.626 trillion. The latest posting reflects an increase of over $6 trillion.

The dubious fiscal milestone came on same day as Mr. Obama and congressional leaders met to discuss the $85 billion in automatic indiscriminate spending cuts that start to take effect today.

The president wanted a package of targeted spending cuts and elimination of tax breaks to avert the mandatory reductions in spending that he says will adversely effect people nationwide. No deal was reached.

"I told them these cuts will hurt our economy. They will cost us jobs," the president said of his meeting.

But the struggle to come up with just $85 billion in spending reductions or tax hikes is a big part of the reason why the national debt continues to expand.

Contributing to the National Debt, the federal deficit has topped $1 trillion four years running. Mr. Obama has routinely blamed his predecessor for policies that has sent the debt soaring on his watch.

"A debt that has grown over the last decade, primarily as a result of two wars, two massive tax cuts, and an unprecedented financial crisis, will have to be paid down," he said in a speech last year.

The White House says Mr. Obama is working with Congress to complete work on a $4 trillion reduction in deficits.

Nevertheless, the Office of Management and Budget projects the national debt will continue to increase by over $800 billion this year and by amounts in the range of $500 billion to $800 billion in the out years - all of which will add to the national debt.

National debt up $6 trillion since Obama took office - CBS News

Does that 4.9 trillion figure under Bush include the wars which were not on the books? Why do you think the government has had to try to prime the pump? Do you think the private sector let us down? Was the candy store finally sold out? Did their bubble finally burst and they left us, aka, the government holding the bag? I'm not ready to long for the good ol Bush days just yet, thank you.

 

[chicago51]

Bush put in policies to ensure a deficit for whoever the next president was. I guess Obama could have acted quicker when the democrats controlled the house. It was a huge recession pulling back and hiking taxes didn't appear to be the way to go at the time.

Personally the way FDR handled things may have been better. Raise taxes to 90 percent on 3.5 million in today's money and put everyone to work.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Bush put in policies to ensure a deficit for whoever the next president was. I guess Obama could have acted quicker when the democrats controlled the house. It was a huge recession pulling back and hiking taxes didn't appear to be the way to go at the time.

Personally the way FDR handled things may have been better. Raise taxes to 90 percent on 3.5 million in today's money and put everyone to work.

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom


FDR prolonged the Great Depression. So I don't want to do what he did again.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Remember that time Mitt Romney bet Rick Perry $10,000 and everyone freaked out and called him an out-of-touch elitist? Ummm....

Magic Johnson offers LeBron James $1 million to do dunk contest - ESPN

 

[NDFan4Life]

Does that 4.9 trillion figure under Bush include the wars which were not on the books? Why do you think the government has had to try to prime the pump? Do you think the private sector let us down? Was the candy store finally sold out? Did their bubble finally burst and they left us, aka, the government holding the bag? I'm not ready to long for the good ol Bush days just yet, thank you.

Perhaps you missed this quote from the article:

It's the largest increase to date under any U.S. president.

What a fantastic job Obama's doing!

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Perhaps you missed this quote from the article:



What a fantastic job Obama's doing!

One of the largest parts of the increased deficit is the reduced revenue because fewer people have jobs (i.e., are no longer paying taxes). That happened because of the economic collapse during the Bush administration.

Am I wrong?

 

[Irish8248]

One of the largest parts of the increased deficit is the reduced revenue because fewer people have jobs (i.e., are no longer paying taxes). That happened because of the economic collapse during the Bush administration.

Am I wrong?

not if youre using the bush administration as a time period but you are absolutely wrong if you are insinuating the policies under Bush were the reasons for the collapse -- for that you have to travel back 1996 i believe, under the Clinton administration and their sweeping infusion of FMHL

do you credit Clinton with the technological boom but Bush with the technology crash? One happened in 99 and the other ended in 01.. From 99-00, in a span of 12 months, under the Clinton administration, the federal govt raised interest rates 6 times. Months later -- boom

 

[chicago51]

Perhaps you missed this quote from the article:



What a fantastic job Obama's doing!

First off we off have not had a modern conservative president end with a deficit lower than when he started. So the republican party has no credibility.

Second forget the national debt. Nobody pays off the national debt it just does not happen. You have to look at the deficits. Now I think almost every sane person agrees that in 09 it would have been wrong to cut spending or raise taxes with economy in shambles. I would argue the economy at this point is still more important than the deficit. Now the deficits since 2010 have been getting smaller so we are chipping away at it. You don't go from trillion dollar deficits to a balance budget in a year.

Now you also need to read your constitution. The budget is joint responsibility of Congress. The president can propose veto and sign. The act of passing a budget must be done by Congress. So if the president puts fourth a plan to reduce the deficit and Congress says no who's fault is it.

What has the republican house done? The Ryan budget? Which does things like gutting food stamps and was passed by 6 votes and may to be able to pass in today's Congress. If you want to explain to me how the Ryan Budget is going to help the economy I would love to hear it.

I encourage you to look up the president's plan I even posted it a few pages back. There is some things I don't like about it. However before you criticize I would like to know just what exactly you think we should do differently and what you think is wrong with it.

 

[Irish8248]

First off we off have not had a modern conservative president end with a deficit lower than when he started. So the republican party has no credibility.


No its called inflation. No one argues that Obama added to the debt, they argue how much he added, how unnecessary it was to add, and the way in which he added to it circumvented thought, constitutionality, and regard for the people of America.



Second forget the national debt. Nobody pays off the national debt it just does not happen. You have to look at the deficits.



It can happen if you right size government. But to do that you have start over and return every expenditure into a fraction of what it is. That means politiicans would lose power and re-election bids -- so it wont happen


Now I think almost every sane person agrees that in 09 it would have been wrong to cut spending or raise taxes with economy in shambles.


it wouldve been wrong to cut spending?!? No way, we need to cut spending. All spending that does not generate a positive return. Therefore it means for every $1 that the american person receives through a program and it costs the govt $1.01 or MORE then that program needs to be on the table to see if there is a way to privitaize, reduce, or figure out how necessary it is... Cutting spending is exactly what we need to do. There is not a revenue problem in this country. If we rightsize the govt the markets will adjust and we can have a thriving private sector again.


Now you also need to read your constitution. The budget is joint responsibility of Congress. The president can propose veto and sign. The act of passing a budget must be done by Congress. So if the president puts fourth a plan to reduce the deficit and Congress says no who's fault is it.


Congress equals Senate as well... Theres nothing in the Constitution that says the Congress has to blindly accept the Presidents proposal. That blind faith only happens when one party controls all facets. Its the worst kind of representation, whether its a Dem or Rep. Part of being President is being a reprenative of all the people and therefore you need to be a compromiser, problem solver, and able to work with all sides. I get those traits can be said to be had by a handful of Presidents but its not about the past, its about the present. There is nothing like this in the white house today.


What has the republican house done? The Ryan budget? Which does things like gutting food stamps and was passed by 6 votes and may to be able to pass in today's Congress. If you want to explain to me how the Ryan Budget is going to help the economy I would love to hear it.


because its the beginning of less government intervention in a program that costs the american govt way more than it takes to run it. Therefore you can say the benefit is grossly undervalued when you take into account the extremely high costs of providing it. Anyone who thinks Medicare isnt going BK is fooling themselves. Its the truth. you dont have a baby boom and not expect the system to be thrown into a flux. Im 27, im not going to see any kind of Social Security return.... What has the Democratic Senate done?

 

[chicago51]

Government spending does not help the economy?

Have you heard of the new deal and world war 2?

During Dwight D Eisenhower's presidency we had debt way worse than today it was about 130 percent of GDP and we spent out our way out of debt. It did help we were selling to Europe. However instead of spending less we spent more domestically. We put people to work building the interstate highways we sent a generation to college on the GI bill so they could be trained in the high skilled jobs of that time. It worked the increased work force stimulated consumer spending. The increased demand created more jobs and the deficit went down because of the increase tax revenue.

We had 30 year period of middle class income growth were the median income grew 75 percent. It has grow just 1 percent since the end of the Carter administration.

The best period of deficit reduction since was during the Clinton administration. What did we do? We raised taxes. Then when the economy was really rocking we did cut spending some. Clinton was not perfect as NAFTA was great then but is hurting us now.

Let me ask you do think we should fix old bridges not up to code and the roads?

If you do you might as well do it when the economy is bad. You are going to have to do it eventually all we are doing is putting it off. I suppose we should privatize that. The Koch brothers can charge me a nickel every time I drive down their road.

If republicans are so worried about Medicare why did they approve Medicare Part D under Bush? Then when democratic controlled House in 2010 passed a bill in 2010 that would allowed Medicare to negotiate its drug rates it was filibustered by republicans in the Senate. That's less spending right? Oh wait the drug loby wouldn't get there money.

The Senate democrats did try to something on the sequester. They put a one year delay on it and offset it with other things. Mainly enacting the Buffet rule so millionaire can't pay a lower rate than a working stiff, ending tax breaks for big oil, cuts to defense, and reduction in agriculture subsidies. Guess what it got? It got filibustered because the GOP won't except closing loopholes that allows rich people to cheat and pay lower than their bracket's tax rates.

 

[chicago51]

You brought up inflation. First off you missed my point that Reagan and Bushes all left with bigger budget deficits than when they started. I am talking about annual deficits not just the actual debt.

Fyi Major inflation has always been cause by supply loss of major economic commodities.

We had bad inflation during the Carter administration. Why? The oil embargo limited the supply of oil. Oil is primary source of transportation, at that it provided a great deal of our electricity, and many plastics and other materials. So prices shot up hence our money was worth less aka inflation.

Zimbabwe had really bad inflation 3 to 4 years ago. Why? Because there was a major food shortage because the dictator was an idiot racist. He got rid of all the white farmers and instead of replacing them with black farmers he replaced them with his buddies that couldn't't farm. So food supply was very low causing prices to skyrocket causing inflation.

There is inflation done by the government on purpose but it is minor. It is done so we can essentially pay back less than we borrowed. The dollar is actually stronger today than before the Bush and Obama debts.

 

[Irish8248]

yes those government programs are still in place today and have significance consequences on the economy... If you think you can compare the 30-40s with that of 2013, youre kidding yourself.... What was union contracts like back then? How were retirement plans setup? The rate of receiving a raise or step in pay? What was the ratio of govt worker to private sector? How did that ratio grow or shrink over time?

... cmon its not the same thing here... theres a clear problem. Govt is too big and too powerful. Programs are too complicated and are used to promote election. They are also repetitive and tend to provide more than a generous share.... if you an make the argument that a program is resourceful then the more likely it is to say, but there is clear waste out there and you dont have to eliminate programs to reduce the waste. But everyone says cut that program not mine. its amazing how dependent people are when it comes to this stuff