Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

chicago51

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^Wish lists are meaningless until you analyze costs.

What is the cost of not doing it? I hear all the time from Republicans in DC that we can't leave our children with this deficit. Okay so lets leave them with a third world infastructure instead.

How can the United States continue to be the number # 1 economic power if we have outdated transportation, and electricity. Oil is only going to get more expensive. When the United States built the transcontinental railroad it set the staging ground for our industrial revolution. Texas and Chicago of all places really benefited from each other and from the national rail system. Texas killed the cattle and Chicago packed the meat. Anyway I know things are different today. High speed rail though can be so effective at not only moving people but moving things like raw materials cheaply (when its finished) and quickly.
 

Black Irish

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What is the cost of not doing it? I hear all the time from Republicans in DC that we can't leave our children with this deficit. Okay so lets leave them with a third world infastructure instead.

How can the United States continue to be the number # 1 economic power if we have outdated transportation, and electricity. Oil is only going to get more expensive. When the United States built the transcontinental railroad it set the staging ground for our industrial revolution. Texas and Chicago of all places really benefited from each other and from the national rail system. Texas killed the cattle and Chicago packed the meat. Anyway I know things are different today. High speed rail though can be so effective at not only moving people but moving things like raw materials cheaply (when its finished) and quickly.

So if we all benefit then we all should be willing to pay higher taxes to make the infrastructure upgrade. We aren't going to get near enough money just hiking rates on the rich. The middle class needs to pony up as well. Unless there's another way....
 

irishpat183

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The best part about all those statistics that someone posted (under democratic presidents the stock market grew better) is that these are the same people that blame former admins for everything negative.

So, according to that, democratic presidents should be thanking those that came before them (for better or worse)? Since that word "inheirted" is always being thrown around.
 

irishpat183

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So if we all benefit then we all should be willing to pay higher taxes to make the infrastructure upgrade. We aren't going to get near enough money just hiking rates on the rich. The middle class needs to pony up as well. Unless there's another way....

There is. Cut entitlements.

Then we have tons of money to build eletric roads and worthless solar panels/wind towers that pollute and cost more to make than what we have now. But hey! They look cool and seem "progressive".


SS, Medicare, Welfare....cut them all to the absolutle min. Make those people work on the roads. After about a month of that kinda work, they'll find other jobs.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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Its all just one big coincidence.

Presidential Data

Jesus lord. None of that means anything when the policies were vastly different from each other. This perpetuates the stupidity of thinking that there is a Democrat way and Republican way and that's it. There are infinite ways to solve a problem.
 

irishpat183

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Jesus lord. None of that means anything when the policies were vastly different from each other. This perpetuates the stupidity of thinking that there is a Democrat way and Republican way and that's it. There are infinite ways to solve a problem.

Here is the guy behind the study:

Jere Glover, 21st Century Democrats, 2120 L Street NW, Suite 305, Washington, D.C. 20037.


I wonder where his affiliation lies?? hmmmmmmm


And congress has more to do with this kinda stuff than the POTUS. But, like a QB, the POTUS takes more credit than he deserves when it's given and more blame when it's given.
 

DSully1995

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Here is the guy behind the study:

Jere Glover, 21st Century Democrats, 2120 L Street NW, Suite 305, Washington, D.C. 20037.


I wonder where his affiliation lies?? hmmmmmmm


And congress has more to do with this kinda stuff than the POTUS. But, like a QB, the POTUS takes more credit than he deserves when it's given and more blame when it's given.

Quite a bit more, some people act as if he has unilateral power,


and you have assumed that the ACA will cost us trillions. Sir if you can see the futur better than a democrat can see the past, Id like to go to vegas with you.
 

chicago51

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So if we all benefit then we all should be willing to pay higher taxes to make the infrastructure upgrade. We aren't going to get near enough money just hiking rates on the rich. The middle class needs to pony up as well. Unless there's another way....

If we end corporate welfare (Republicans don't like welfare so it shouldn't be an issue right?).

If make Wall Street pay a very tiny tiny transaction tax (After all the rest of America pays sales tax on everything else).

If we make the guy who got his money from capital gains pay just as much as successful small businesses owner who actually worked his or her butt off for their million dollars.

If people stop hiding their money in foreign banks.

If we put things in place that are going to slow the rate of out of control health care cost. There is a good chance I end up working in health care for the rest of my life. If it means a slightly lower salary for me so be it. I'll be okay but for America's sake we got get these cost down. That is what is really driving our deficit. Cutting benefits won't do anything but act as bandage. Even if we make cuts 10 years later if the cost keep going like this the right will we aksing for more cuts.

Sorry I went off a bit on health care. Anyway if we do all these things and we still don't have enough money. Which we may not. Then go ahead raise the middle class taxes a bit.
 

chicago51

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Here is the guy behind the study:

Jere Glover, 21st Century Democrats, 2120 L Street NW, Suite 305, Washington, D.C. 20037.


I wonder where his affiliation lies?? hmmmmmmm


And congress has more to do with this kinda stuff than the POTUS. But, like a QB, the POTUS takes more credit than he deserves when it's given and more blame when it's given.


He used data from the Congressional Budget Office. Are they biased? It is all one big government conspiracy to make Democrats look good.

Statistical Abstract of the United States; 1992-2011 Economic Reports of the President, Congressional Budget Office, Bureau of Labor Statistics, all data since World War II.
 

Irish Houstonian

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With everything I have present about high top end taxes not showing any effect on job growth I would say the same to you.

??? I was just wondering how much your "National Transportation & High Speed Rail Final Solution" would cost...If you don't know, or don't think it's important, just say so...
 
B

Buster Bluth

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If we end corporate welfare (Republicans don't like welfare so it shouldn't be an issue right?).

If make Wall Street pay a very tiny tiny transaction tax (After all the rest of America pays sales tax on everything else).

If we make the guy who got his money from capital gains pay just as much as successful small businesses owner who actually worked his or her butt off for their million dollars.

If people stop hiding their money in foreign banks.

If we put things in place that are going to slow the rate of out of control health care cost. There is a good chance I end up working in health care for the rest of my life. If it means a slightly lower salary for me so be it. I'll be okay but for America's sake we got get these cost down. That is what is really driving our deficit. Cutting benefits won't do anything but act as bandage. Even if we make cuts 10 years later if the cost keep going like this the right will we aksing for more cuts.

Sorry I went off a bit on health care. Anyway if we do all these things and we still don't have enough money. Which we may not. Then go ahead raise the middle class taxes a bit.

And you think Republicans are the only them preventing that or that there aren't very very prominent Democrats on the "bad" side of all of those things????
 

irishpat183

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Quite a bit more, some people act as if he has unilateral power,


and you have assumed that the ACA will cost us trillions. Sir if you can see the futur better than a democrat can see the past, Id like to go to vegas with you.

The ACA will cost us trillions. What do you mean? The numbers are right in front of you.


There is a reason that there has been new taxes popping up all over the place. To pay for it....

You must be under the assumption that health care will be "free"? God help us if that is what you and others actually believe.
 

irishpat183

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If we end corporate welfare (Republicans don't like welfare so it shouldn't be an issue right?).

If make Wall Street pay a very tiny tiny transaction tax (After all the rest of America pays sales tax on everything else).

If we make the guy who got his money from capital gains pay just as much as successful small businesses owner who actually worked his or her butt off for their million dollars.

If people stop hiding their money in foreign banks.

If we put things in place that are going to slow the rate of out of control health care cost. There is a good chance I end up working in health care for the rest of my life. If it means a slightly lower salary for me so be it. I'll be okay but for America's sake we got get these cost down. That is what is really driving our deficit. Cutting benefits won't do anything but act as bandage. Even if we make cuts 10 years later if the cost keep going like this the right will we aksing for more cuts.

Sorry I went off a bit on health care. Anyway if we do all these things and we still don't have enough money. Which we may not. Then go ahead raise the middle class taxes a bit.

That boarders on the absurd.


While I want what's better for this country...I also need to take care of me and my family FIRST. That is the best way to do what's best for this country....start by taking care of yourself.


The biggest myth in this country is that if we spend enough money, everyone will prosper.
 

Irish Houstonian

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The ACA will cost us trillions. What do you mean? The numbers are right in front of you.


There is a reason that there has been new taxes popping up all over the place. To pay for it....

You must be under the assumption that health care will be "free"? God help us if that is what you and others actually believe.

The CBO has said that Obamacare will cost $1.76 trillion in the first decade, which balloons to about a total of $4 in the next. Note this already accounts for all the new taxes (medical devices, Ind. Mandate, real estate) imposed under the Act as well.

Which is nothing to say of the plan cost increases that will occur. Most plans will increase about 20% next year alone.
 

GowerND11

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That boarders on the absurd.


While I want what's better for this country...I also need to take care of me and my family FIRST. That is the best way to do what's best for this country....start by taking care of yourself.


The biggest myth in this country is that if we spend enough money, everyone will prosper.

I'd go a step further and say add your local community/neighborhood as well to help this country. Local involvement and development is always so much easier and worthwhile than attempting to reach out to the entire nation.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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There is. Cut entitlements.

Then we have tons of money to build eletric roads and worthless solar panels/wind towers that pollute and cost more to make than what we have now. But hey! They look cool and seem "progressive".


SS, Medicare, Welfare....cut them all to the absolutle min. Make those people work on the roads. After about a month of that kinda work, they'll find other jobs.

SS, Medicare, and Medicaid are still 62% of our budget and the left has no plans to fix the problem. Ryan tried to throw a plan out there on the table, and the progressives painted him as a guy who was pushing Grandma off a cliff on her wheelchair. Friggin joke.

And if you think entitlements are a problem now, wait till obamacare kicks in and this current generation of kids grows into something like an adult. They are mostly raised in public schools of thought of "it's ok, it's the effort that counts, not the results, good job, you're great, you're wonderful" and "government is here to take care of you and give you everything you want/ need." This leftist utopian nanny state will collapse a helluva lot faster than Europe did, and it will be uglier.

The psychological studies linking Facebook and narcissism in young people today are scary...spoiled, selfish, entitled brats who want everything for free and don't want to work. It won't be all of them (some parents in this country still have a clue and are involved), but it'll be like the walking dead + occupy wall street on steroids.

I'm not a full blown prepper, but as The Rock said on WWF when I was a kid, you can guaran damn tee I'll be ready when $hit hits the fan.
 

Ndaccountant

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Quite a bit more, some people act as if he has unilateral power,


and you have assumed that the ACA will cost us trillions. Sir if you can see the futur better than a democrat can see the past, Id like to go to vegas with you.

Let history be your guide. This is from a report on from the Senate Joint Economic Committee report on projected spending and actual spending. Now, there are countless reasons why things over spend and some are legit and some are not. But the issue with me is that the CBO has to project with the assumptions laid out before them. The talk is always focused on the outcome of that analysis, instead of whether or not the assumptions are valid. All too ofter, assumptions are largely inaccurate and we are left with big problems down the road.

"Medicare (hospital insurance). In 1965, as Congress considered legislation to establish a national Medicare program, the House Ways and Means Committee estimated that the hospital insurance portion of the program, Part A, would cost about $9 billion annually by 1990.v Actual Part A spending in 1990 was $67 billion. The actuary who provided the original cost estimates acknowledged in 1994 that, even after conservatively discounting for the unexpectedly high inflation rates of the early ‘70s and other factors, “the actual [Part A] experience was 165% higher than the estimate.”

Medicare (entire program). In 1967, the House Ways and Means Committee predicted that the new Medicare program, launched the previous year, would cost about $12 billion in 1990. Actual Medicare spending in 1990 was $110 billion—off by nearly a factor of 10.

Medicaid DSH program. In 1987, Congress estimated that Medicaid’s disproportionate share hospital (DSH) payments—which states use to provide relief to hospitals that serve especially large numbers of Medicaid and uninsured patients—would cost less than $1 billion in 1992. The actual cost that year was a staggering $17 billion. Among other things, federal lawmakers had failed to detect loopholes in the legislation that enabled states to draw significantly more money from the federal treasury than they would otherwise have been entitled to claim under the program’s traditional 50-50 funding scheme.

Medicare home care benefit. When Congress debated changes to Medicare’s home care benefit in 1988, the projected 1993 cost of the benefit was $4 billion. The actual 1993 cost was more than twice that amount, $10 billion.

Medicare catastrophic coverage benefit. In 1988, Congress added a catastrophic coverage benefit to Medicare, to take effect in 1990. In July 1989, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) doubled its cost estimate for the program, for the four-year period 1990-1993, from $5.7 billion to $11.8 billion. CBO explained that it had received newer data showing it had significantly under-estimated prescription drug cost growth, and it warned Congress that even this revised estimate might be too low. This was a principal reason Congress repealed the program before it could take effect.

SCHIP. In 1997, Congress established the State Children’s Health Insurance Program as a capped grant program to states, and appropriated $40 billion to be doled out to states over 10 years at a rate of roughly $5 billion per year, once implemented. In each year, some states exceeded their allotments, requiring shifts of funds from other states that had not done so. By 2006, unspent reserves from prior years were nearly exhausted. To avert mass disenrollments, Congress decided to appropriate an additional $283 million in FY 2006 and an additional $650 million in FY 2007.
 

Irish Houstonian

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I'd go a step further and say add your local community/neighborhood as well to help this country. Local involvement and development is always so much easier and worthwhile than attempting to reach out to the entire nation.

+1. Your dollar will always go farther, and have a greater impact, locally than nationally.
 

chicago51

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SS, Medicare, and Medicaid are still 62% of our budget and the left has no plans to fix the problem. Ryan tried to throw a plan out there on the table, and the progressives painted him as a guy who was pushing Grandma off a cliff on her wheelchair. Friggin joke.

And if you think entitlements are a problem now, wait till obamacare kicks in and this current generation of kids grows into something like an adult. They are mostly raised in public schools of thought of "it's ok, it's the effort that counts, not the results, good job, you're great, you're wonderful" and "government is here to take care of you and give you everything you want/ need." This leftist utopian nanny state will collapse a helluva lot faster than Europe did, and it will be uglier.

The psychological studies linking Facebook and narcissism in young people today are scary...spoiled, selfish, entitled brats who want everything for free and don't want to work. It won't be all of them (some parents in this country still have a clue and are involved), but it'll be like the walking dead + occupy wall street on steroids.

I'm not a full blown prepper, but as The Rock said on WWF when I was a kid, you can guaran damn tee I'll be ready when $hit hits the fan.

?

You come off a tab bit bitter here.
 

irishpat183

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SS, Medicare, and Medicaid are still 62% of our budget and the left has no plans to fix the problem. Ryan tried to throw a plan out there on the table, and the progressives painted him as a guy who was pushing Grandma off a cliff on her wheelchair. Friggin joke.

And if you think entitlements are a problem now, wait till obamacare kicks in and this current generation of kids grows into something like an adult. They are mostly raised in public schools of thought of "it's ok, it's the effort that counts, not the results, good job, you're great, you're wonderful" and "government is here to take care of you and give you everything you want/ need." This leftist utopian nanny state will collapse a helluva lot faster than Europe did, and it will be uglier.

The psychological studies linking Facebook and narcissism in young people today are scary...spoiled, selfish, entitled brats who want everything for free and don't want to work. It won't be all of them (some parents in this country still have a clue and are involved), but it'll be like the walking dead + occupy wall street on steroids.

I'm not a full blown prepper, but as The Rock said on WWF when I was a kid, you can guaran damn tee I'll be ready when $hit hits the fan.

?

You come off a tab bit bitter here.

He's right.

Look at this next generation of brats. Who would rather watch Kim Kardashian and major in art histroy, than learn something useful.

And when they don't get paid, turns out art history doesn't pay well, they whine and complain and sit on the front steps of some investment firm that they think robbed them of their future (but it's the same firm that has helped their mother and father retire with ease and pay for their 4 years of wasted "education").

So they move back in their parents house, work part time making over-priced coffee, while texting from a smart phone made by one of those "evil" corporations they hate, with a pile of student debt that they'll never pay off because of "evil loan givers" and their deceptive loan practices. They blame everyone for everything and can't understand why no one will hire them and their face metal and neck tats. It's a form of "expression" ya know?

Yes. There are millions of these little a%%holes out there. And those making a living and paying off their debt are picking up the tab. My children and your children will be picking up their tab. Because government NEEDS to help them.

This is why we are broke, gentlemen. The art history major generation. Like Polish said...wait until art history major actually grows up and has kids.
 

DSully1995

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He's right.

Look at this next generation of brats. Who would rather watch Kim Kardashian and major in art histroy, than learn something useful.

And when they don't get paid, turns out art history doesn't pay well, they whine and complain and sit on the front steps of some investment firm that they think robbed them of their future (but it's the same firm that has helped their mother and father retire with ease and pay for their 4 years of wasted "education").

So they move back in their parents house, work part time making over-priced coffee, while texting from a smart phone made by one of those "evil" corporations they hate, with a pile of student debt that they'll never pay off because of "evil loan givers" and their deceptive loan practices. They blame everyone for everything and can't understand why no one will hire them and their face metal and neck tats. It's a form of "expression" ya know?

Yes. There are millions of these little a%%holes out there. And those making a living and paying off their debt are picking up the tab. My children and your children will be picking up their tab. Because government NEEDS to help them.

This is why we are broke, gentlemen. The art history major generation. Like Polish said...wait until art history major actually grows up and has kids.

Defending the next generation, i think your a pissy old man who hasnt had things go his way and blames everything else. All you conservatives tout about how self made you were but all I hear is a bunch of complaining, "if it wasnt for the hippes/democrats/brats, id be better off", a true self driven person would not waste his time complaining about paying the bills of his parents generation. And also, I dont know your age, but you seem older so ill say this, those kardashian art majors didnt ruin America, look to put your blame on the old instead of blaming people who havent even gotten a penny from medicare/SS. Also, please stop predicting the futur, you dont know government needs to help anyone, have a little more faith in people, they often surprise you.
 

DSully1995

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The ACA will cost us trillions. What do you mean? The numbers are right in front of you.


There is a reason that there has been new taxes popping up all over the place. To pay for it....

You must be under the assumption that health care will be "free"? God help us if that is what you and others actually believe.

1. Us:? ACA forces the purchase of private sector insurance
2.ACA will cost us trillions: Show me the numbers please, how how the ACA will cause an increase of thousands in healthcare costs, to be paid for by the government.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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He's right.

Look at this next generation of brats. Who would rather watch Kim Kardashian and major in art histroy, than learn something useful.

And when they don't get paid, turns out art history doesn't pay well, they whine and complain and sit on the front steps of some investment firm that they think robbed them of their future (but it's the same firm that has helped their mother and father retire with ease and pay for their 4 years of wasted "education").

So they move back in their parents house, work part time making over-priced coffee, while texting from a smart phone made by one of those "evil" corporations they hate, with a pile of student debt that they'll never pay off because of "evil loan givers" and their deceptive loan practices. They blame everyone for everything and can't understand why no one will hire them and their face metal and neck tats. It's a form of "expression" ya know?

Yes. There are millions of these little a%%holes out there. And those making a living and paying off their debt are picking up the tab. My children and your children will be picking up their tab. Because government NEEDS to help them.

This is why we are broke, gentlemen. The art history major generation. Like Polish said...wait until art history major actually grows up and has kids.

Sad but true. What do you do when America ranks in the 20's and 30's globally in math and science? You deisgn fake majors like art history, global justice, peace studies, 19th century lesbian poetry, etc. And everyone gets into college. And college prices skyrocket because government is handing out free money to them. And God darn it if you aren't making $85k at age 22 to pay off your enormous loans and live the "style" you want, it's someone else's fault.
 

Irish Houstonian

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1. Us:? ACA forces the purchase of private sector insurance
2.ACA will cost us trillions: Show me the numbers please, how how the ACA will cause an increase of thousands in healthcare costs, to be paid for by the government.

? Even Obama claimed that the bill would cost $900 billion net. (Which ended up being way off). The whole scheme is to subsidize peoples' buying of insurance -- how else are you going to make sure more people are insured?

And your personal plans will go up as well next year, because of the underwriting and coverage mandates written into every policy.
 

irishpat183

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? Even Obama claimed that the bill would cost $900 billion net. (Which ended up being way off). The whole scheme is to subsidize peoples' buying of insurance -- how else are you going to make sure more people are insured?

And your personal plans will go up as well next year, because of the underwriting and coverage mandates written into every policy.

By giving the Health care gestapo (the IRS) 500 million dollars to "monitor" it.


Don't pay your tab? IRS man will be knocking your door down. Everyone will pay more. Everyone.

You can't add millions more to the system and think it won't cost more...that's just idiotic.
 

irishpat183

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Defending the next generation, i think your a pissy old man who hasnt had things go his way and blames everything else. All you conservatives tout about how self made you were but all I hear is a bunch of complaining, "if it wasnt for the hippes/democrats/brats, id be better off", a true self driven person would not waste his time complaining about paying the bills of his parents generation. And also, I dont know your age, but you seem older so ill say this, those kardashian art majors didnt ruin America, look to put your blame on the old instead of blaming people who havent even gotten a penny from medicare/SS. Also, please stop predicting the futur, you dont know government needs to help anyone, have a little more faith in people, they often surprise you.

Hey! I'm only 31!!!

What an insane (leftist) comment....Seriously? "A true self driven person would not waste his time complaining about paying the bills of his parents generation"???? LOL ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

So let's just rack up the debt and tell everyone to quit their jobs now, because the next generation will cover it. They shouldn't complain either.

Come on man!!! You're smarter than this! I do have faith in people...but most people will only work as hard as they have to, to get by. This is why there are rich and poor. Have's and have nots. Winners and losers. Yes, some don't get a fair shake, but I've rarely met a hardworking person that didn't get their day in the sun. Government PRAYS on those that want to just skate by...and there are more and more of those kinds of people out there. The "greatest" generation is gone. We're moving into a generation of PC crybabies that have no skills and no desire to do anything but email and watch reality TV.

To just think that everything will all be ok if we just trust the government is wrong. I'm simply saying that if you left me (and others) to their own devices, we'd be just fine. The more money they take from us, the more we must get involved and demand that they be accountable for how they spend money that otherwise, I could spend more efficently on my own.
 
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