Paterno Fired

[pkt77242]

Here's the thing:

Let's say you are the manager of the IT Dept at work. You work for the Operations Manager. On Tuesday morning, one of your workers informs you that they observed one of your Supervisors, in the copy room, molesting a young boy. The young boy is not currently in the process of being molested, so making your first call to the police is not going to save him from being further abused. With this in mind, if your Manager finds out that the first call you made was to the police, and not him? I wonder if you can imagine the trouble you would be in? What you should do is call your Manager, tell him what happened, and inform him that you will be calling the police, as soon as your conversation with him is done. You don't blindside your boss with something as legal and morally reprehensible as this. You inform him of what is going on, make sure he understands that you intend to pursue the situation, and allow him to get out in front of it. He will then call his boss, who will call his boss, who will call his boss, etc., until the HMFIC knows what is about to happen. Perhaps the Operations Manager tells you not to contact the Police, that he will do it himself? The proper thing is to allow him the opportunity to do that. If he fails to follow up? THEN you can make the call to the authorities. It may not appease your hot-headed, emotional, angry reaction to hearing the news in the first place, but it's the right thing to do.
Paterno is gone. Even if he did the "right" thing, all along (which he didn't), no parent in the world is going to trust him with their kid. His days of coaching are over. He'll be lucky to be able to sign Pat Dillingham, at this point.

But get off of your sanctimonious high horse. Paterno is a guy with a LONG, verifiable history of being a good, principled man. He spit the bit on this one, and it only takes one "oh ****!" to wipe out a thousand "Attaboys", but it's not like he's an actual predator. Save your outrage for Sandusky.

Read your bolded part agin. The right thing to do is not tell your boss, the right thing to do is contact the police. This isn't someone stealing $200 from petty cash (you contact your boss then) we are talking about ****ing child molestation. If you can't understand the difference, that is your problem.

I don't think JoePa should go to jail but to pretend that he did the right thing is laughable. I agree he spit the bit, but he spit the bit the moment he didn't call the police, the rest is just bunch of BS.

 

[kmoose]

Read your bolded part agin. The right thing to do is not tell your boss, the right thing to do is contact the police. This isn't someone stealing $200 from petty cash (you contact your boss then) we are talking about ****ing child molestation. If you can't understand the difference, that is your problem.

I don't think JoePa should go to jail but to pretend that he did the right thing is laughable. I agree he spit the bit, but he spit the bit the moment he didn't call the police, the rest is just bunch of BS.

I'm not saying that you don't contact the police. I'm saying that the first your boss knows of what is happening better not be when the police show up to interview you, your Supervisor, and your employee. It's a fine line, but it's how you handle legal issues in a professional manner, in the workplace.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Great post Moose. Summarized most of my thinking on the present situation. There is one thing that should garner more attention, however:

Perhaps the Operations Manager tells you not to contact the Police, that he will do it himself? The proper thing is to allow him the opportunity to do that. If he fails to follow up? THEN you can make the call to the authorities

Joe failed to do this and in so doing failed not only himself, as a champion of young people, but sadly the young men that were victimized in Joe's building, on Joe's watch thereafter.

This is the point of contention/legality that should be of principle importance in deciding Joe's fate.

Regretfully,
Andy

 

[pkt77242]

I'm not saying that you don't contact the police. I'm saying that the first your boss knows of what is happening better not be when the police show up to interview you, your Supervisor, and your employee. It's a fine line, but it's how you handle legal issues in a professional manner, in the workplace.

I would tell my boss after I called the police not before. As in I just called and reported that so and so was molesting a child in the workplace. This isn't sexual harrassment (which you report to your superior or HR not the police). And I completely disagree with it is how you handle legal issues in a professional manner in the workplace, maybe most legal issues but not child molestation. You report it to the police immediately.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

I'm not saying that you don't contact the police. I'm saying that the first your boss knows of what is happening better not be when the police show up to interview you, your Supervisor, and your employee. It's a fine line, but it's how you handle legal issues in a professional manner, in the workplace.

Not sure what your defending now? Protocol? That's your defense for him? Protocol? lol

Look plain and simple he should of contacted police. If he wanted to let the AD and president know that's fine they could of made the call with him. But Joe Pa doesn't even have to do that. He's not some joe shmo employee. He is that University. If he trusted McQueary (which he must of since he left him on staff and promoted him for godsakes) enough to tell the AD what happened he should of let the police know too.

You can do a 1000 rights in this world but its the 1 wrong (especially with something as awful as this) that will tear you done. He will pay the price.

 

[BobD]

Did Joe really have any "Supervisors"? After so many years, I don't think he really reported to anyone, I think the university put people in place to handle the things Joe didn't want or have time to do.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

These are questions of individual versus establishment. I do not have a problem with Joe, as a member of the PSU establishment not calling police himself and instead having another member of the institution do this in accordance with their guild-lines. It's PSU's responsibility to handle things accordingly. If however, PSU as an establishment fails to do so, then it does fall on Joe the individual to call the authorities. He has a sort of duality to his responsibility here. There is no situation hypothetical or otherwise that Joe should not have called police after PSU collectively has failed to do so.

 

[kmoose]

Not sure what your defending now? Protocol? That's your defense for him? Protocol? lol

Look plain and simple he should of contacted police. If he wanted to let the AD and president know that's fine they could of made the call with him. But Joe Pa doesn't even have to do that. He's not some joe shmo employee. He is that University. If he trusted McQueary (which he must of since he left him on staff and promoted him for godsakes) enough to tell the AD what happened he should of let the police know too.

You can do a 1000 rights in this world but its the 1 wrong (especially with something as awful as this) that will tear you done. He will pay the price.

I'm not defending anything. I'm trying to get people to look past their anger. They're pissed off that kids were molested, and rightly so. But do you see a bunch of posts about Sandusky burning in hell? No, what you see is a bunch of pissed off people taking shots at the largest target in the room.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

I'm not defending anything. I'm trying to get people to look past their anger. They're pissed off that kids were molested, and rightly so. But do you see a bunch of posts about Sandusky burning in hell? No, what you see is a bunch of pissed off people taking shots at the largest target in the room.

I'll play devil's advocate.

The reason for this is Sandusky is an alleged serial sexual predator. Your not going to find many examples of people "on the other side" of this one.

Joe Paterno's role in this, especially given the 'told authorities / didn't call police' scenereo and what was already clearly the end of his reign at PSU, makes for more diverse commentary.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

I'm not defending anything. I'm trying to get people to look past their anger. They're pissed off that kids were molested, and rightly so. But do you see a bunch of posts about Sandusky burning in hell? No, what you see is a bunch of pissed off people taking shots at the largest target in the room.

Of course. He's the face of the program. The man at the top always gets the attention. No one forced Joe Pa to be the Head Coach and all that comes with it.

I'll leave you with a quote of a good Irishman. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

 

[WaveDomer]

That "pep rally" outside Paterno's house is just unbelievable. And him leading the cheer of "We are... Penn State." Are you kidding me? Do you have any ounce of tact in your body? The right thing to say is, "I appreciate your support. My family appreciates your support, but let's all remember what has happened here is the devastation of countless lives. We must never forget that. And we have to look at how we can do better next time.... etc, etc." Not "We are... Penn State." What an ahole.

By the way, any argument that McQueary had some kind of vendetta agains Sandusky is totally blown away by the fact that the guy was a long term coach at the school. Would you ever hire some nut who makes a false accusation like that against someone else? That is what seals the deal for me. Either McQueary lied and they still hire him as a coach for some bizarre reason. Or McQueary didn't lie, and they didn't do anything except basically tell Sandusky not to rape kids on campus, but stay and hang out all you like.

 

[salveamicus]

He said: "the kids who were victims... or, whatever they [the press?] want to say: I think we ought to say a prayer for them, because you know, they were [mumbles incoherently]... tough life when people do certain things to you, but, anyway, you've [addressing the students] been great."

 

[JoeyGetherall]

That "pep rally" outside Paterno's house is just unbelievable. And him leading the cheer of "We are... Penn State." Are you kidding me? Do you have any ounce of tact in your body? The right thing to say is, "I appreciate your support. My family appreciates your support, but let's all remember what has happened here is the devastation of countless lives. We must never forget that. And we have to look at how we can do better next time.... etc, etc." Not "We are... Penn State." What an ahole.

By the way, any argument that McQueary had some kind of vendetta agains Sandusky is totally blown away by the fact that the guy was a long term coach at the school. Would you ever hire some nut who makes a false accusation like that against someone else? That is what seals the deal for me. Either McQueary lied and they still hire him as a coach for some bizarre reason. Or McQueary didn't lie, and they didn't do anything except basically tell Sandusky not to rape kids on campus, but stay and hang out all you like.

Yeah it's sickening and starts to really give us insight into how this was allowed to happen in the first place.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

I'm not saying that you don't contact the police. I'm saying that the first your boss knows of what is happening better not be when the police show up to interview you, your Supervisor, and your employee. It's a fine line, but it's how you handle legal issues in a professional manner, in the workplace.

Perhaps I said too much about this yesterday, but you are wrong. If you are in the position you describe, you don't stop to tell your supervisor, you call the authorities. If you see a child being molested, you call the authorities. If you see a rape, you call the authorities. If you see someone downloading porn, go to your supervisor. There are differences here and child molestation is above this "gotta give my supervisor a chance to make this right" line.

 

[irishff1014]

There is a reason that universities have their own police depts. If they didn't go to the state police they should have atleast gone to the university police. It seems that the more the minutes are read from the grand jury the more is being revieled. McQueary is going to be hammered in this in the end as well. This is a really troubling sitiuation.

 

[palinurus]

Perhaps I said too much about this yesterday, but you are wrong. If you are in the position you describe, you don't stop to tell your supervisor, you call the authorities. If you see a child being molested, you call the authorities. If you see a rape, you call the authorities. If you see someone downloading porn, go to your supervisor. There are differences here and child molestation is above this "gotta give my supervisor a chance to make this right" line.

I gotta say, if McQuerry saw what he said he saw, he knew it was a crime. There's no context in which it is not a crime. I don't know Penn. law, so I don't know McQuerry's legal obligation (though I suspect citizens may have an obligation to report it, if they witness a crime (guy throwing a brick through the jewelry store window), though I'm sure that is an often-ignored obligation). But he had a moral obligation to stop it, if possible, and report it to law enforcement authorities, in any event. We can be sympathetic for a young man who was afraid to take on a campus legend, but it doesn't make his failure to act less wrong. I note, though, that McQuerry wasn't a teen ager; he was 28.

I agree that most conduct, which may not be "of the moment" or obvious crimes -- eg, financial malfeasance, minor physical disputes -- should go through channels, unless there is a strong reason to go directly to the law.

 

[Buster Bluth]

That "pep rally" outside Paterno's house is just unbelievable. And him leading the cheer of "We are... Penn State." Are you kidding me? Do you have any ounce of tact in your body? The right thing to say is, "I appreciate your support. My family appreciates your support, but let's all remember what has happened here is the devastation of countless lives. We must never forget that. And we have to look at how we can do better next time.... etc, etc." Not "We are... Penn State." What an ahole.

I think you might be reading too much into it. And "countless lives?" How high can you count?

I don't think we can make judgments until we know what the AD did and what McQeaury really told Paterno.

Paterno made his grand jury testimony 11 months ago, right? Why would a guy not retire after last season if he didn't think he was 100% ethically innocent of what happened? It's not like he didn't know this would surface at some point after his testimony...

 

[Free Manera]

I did not know this before hearing it on the radio this morning. Apparently the other official that resigned (not the AD) was head of campus police. The PSU police are a true police force, not simply campus security. They carry guns and have authority to make arrests. If Paterno reported the incident to this man, who is "the police", it changes my perception of his failures very slightly. If one reports an incident to the police and hears nothing else of the incident subsequently, one could believe the investigation has run its course. I still blame Paterno completely for allowing that scumbag to hang around campus for a decade and believe that is reason enough for him to bear consequences.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Just reported on ESPN radio that the AP reports Jo Pa announced he will retire following this season.

 

[TerryTate]

He gone.

 

[irishff1014]

We all knew this decision was coming.

 

[mgriff]

Sad to see him go like this. It's a shame, but the university has to clear house since it was all the way up to the President.

 

[WaveDomer]

I think you might be reading too much into it. And "countless lives?" How high can you count?

I don't think we can make judgments until we know what the AD did and what McQeaury really told Paterno.

Paterno made his grand jury testimony 11 months ago, right? Why would a guy not retire after last season if he didn't think he was 100% ethically innocent of what happened? It's not like he didn't know this would surface at some point after his testimony...

I don't know. How high can anyone count? This stuff doesn't just affect the direct victims, it affects everyone close to them in present and in future. Say there are 10 victims. You can probably mulitply that by 3 or 4 to say how many people are affected. Anyway, my text summarizing what he might say was just an example of how he could have had some taste rather than leading football cheers. I felt like taking a shower after watching that video.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

I've been saying for years that Paterno has to go.
This isn't how I wanted to see him go.
He may have done the minimum of what was expected to bad he didn't do the correct thing.

 

[phork]

I think you might be reading too much into it. And "countless lives?" How high can you count?

I don't think we can make judgments until we know what the AD did and what McQeaury really told Paterno.

Paterno made his grand jury testimony 11 months ago, right? Why would a guy not retire after last season if he didn't think he was 100% ethically innocent of what happened? It's not like he didn't know this would surface at some point after his testimony...

Countless because we don't know how high the number is going. It was 8, now over 20...

 

[Irish Insanity]

There is no waiting to see what Paterno was told or when or anything. It was reported yesterday by local media that they tried investigating this in 2002 when there were rumors stating similarities to what is alleged now. They also said they attempted to investigate again a few years back when rumors again began to surface. The local media said that they and others in the community knew this day would come at some point. That every door they knocked on to get answers was shut in their face. Now if some local media and people in the community knew of rumors and possible allegations there is know way Paterno didn't. He runs that University and anything involved with it.

 

[beryirish]

ESPN list of names for potential candidates:

Names to watch

Greg Schiano - Rutgers HC
Urban Meyer - Former Florida HC
Al Golden - Miami HC
Kirk Ferentz - Iowa HC
Rich Rodriguez - Former Michigan HC
Gus Malzahn - Auburn OC
Kirby Smart - Alabama DC
Mike Leach - Former Texas Tech HC
Jim Caldwell - Indianapolis Colts HC
Mike Munchak - Tennessee Titans HC
Paul Pasqualoni - Connecticut HC
Gary Patterson - TCU HC
Chris Peterson - Boise St. HC
Pat Fitzgerald - Northwestern HC
Jim Grobe - Wake Forest HC
Dan Mullen - Mississipis St HC
Bill Cowher -Former Pittsburgh Steelers HC
Jon Gruden - Former Tampa Bay Buccaneers HC

 

[WaveDomer]

Just to look beyond Paterno and PSU for a second, I think something that this scandal brings to light is that we, as a society, don't understand what it is we are really dealing with. Some do, obviously, but as a whole I don't think we understand the severity of abuse on a child. This is similar to many cases where the institution tries to handle it and is just not capable of handling it because it's a different animal than they expect. Sexual predators like this will not stop unless they are made to stop. As a country we need to really wake up, I think and do something serious about this.

Here is a sickening fact: there is a computer program that is able to pinpoint the origination and destination of child pornography. Don't ask me how they do it, but it's out there. If you Google a guy named Flint Waters who works with ICAC you can find out about it. There are thousands of these emails a week going around the US. They also say that something like 1 in 3 users of child porn has a victim. The problem? The government doesn't fund it enough. I've heard testimony of law enforcement apologizing to the computer screen because they know they can't do anything. And it's anywhere from infants to young adults.

So maybe some good can come of this scandal. Who knows? Maybe we can wake up a bit.

 

[dre1919]

No other choice...Joe had to go. Looks as though they'll clean out the house, as well they should.

 

[tadman95]

I think his statement was appropriate but still too much saving face by resigning at the end of the season. Every game will be a zoo with college football being pushed to the background.

I think he should coach Saturday's home game, say good bye and be done. Let the university start healing and rebuilding.