Obamacare

[irishpat183]

You are simply being intellectually dishonest if you believe a kid living in the projects in the Watts neighborhood of LA has any opportunities. We're talking about people's lives and you are trying to make rhetorical points that are a million miles from reality. But, you have health insurance, so all is right with the world. We'll make some "tweaks" some day.

Shall I list NFL players and successful people that have dug outta that EXACT start in life>>


And just come out and call me stupid....intellectually dishonest sounds too formal. LOL

 

[ab2cmiller]

Shall I list NFL players and successful people that have dug outta that EXACT start in life>>


And just come out and call me stupid....intellectually dishonest sounds too formal. LOL

Using athlete's as examples of digging out of that kind of life is probably not going to be constructive. Very small number of people and doesn't really apply to the typical person really trying to be successful from that background.

 

[PraetorianND]

Shall I list NFL players and successful people that have dug outta that EXACT start in life>>


And just come out and call me stupid....intellectually dishonest sounds too formal. LOL

Yikes...

 

[irishpat183]

See everyone has the opportunity....but everyone will not be successful.

The left is convinced that everyone is entitled to be successful.

I'm of the belief that everyone has the opportunity, but it's what you make of it. And life has winners and losers.

That is about as hard as reality is gonna get.

 

[irishpat183]

Using athlete's as examples of digging out of that kind of life is probably not going to be constructive. Very small number of people and doesn't really apply to the typical person really trying to be successful from that background.

But you said "ANY".......As if it doesn't happen.


In fact, now more than ever, kids from less than perfect backgrounds are going to college these days.


Also, you have to ask yourself...what is "successful"??

 

[GoIrish41]

Shall I list NFL players and successful people that have dug outta that EXACT start in life>>


And just come out and call me stupid....intellectually dishonest sounds too formal. LOL

using NFL plays as your example does sound a bit ... well, since really only about 1700 or 1800 people can even have that job? Should we count the NBA too? We are talking about millions of people and you are going to provide me anecdotal information about a few who have been able to escape? Give me a break.

Intellectually dishonest does not mean stupid, by the way. It means that you are not being honest with what you know to be true. what are you, stupid?

 

[PraetorianND]

No, you were trying to make us feel like we were bad people for not supporting Obamacare. That tactic deserves sarcasm. There's no moral authority in public policy -- it's just a big set of competing, subjective preferences.

I was trying to create an empathetic response by suggesting the reality of the situation. I failed.

 

[irishpat183]

See this all ties into the utopian idea....as if we can all be rich, have everything we want, and be worry free.

Come on guys. That's just not the case. I've accepted that fact. Coldhearted as it is.

We can't. Some are gonna fail. Some will catch a lucky break. But without our system, that focus's on individual freedom and pursuit of happiiness, we would all just be...well...be here. No lows, no poverty, no hunger....but no victories, no wealth, and no spoils.

I don't want life to be "fair". I want to keep score and I want to win.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

You are simply being intellectually dishonest if you believe a kid living in the projects in the Watts neighborhood of LA has any opportunities. We're talking about people's lives and you are trying to make rhetorical points that are a million miles from reality. But, you have health insurance, so all is right with the world. We'll make some "tweaks" some day.

There are definitely a ton of poor people with little opportunity. The question is, can government save them? And then, is the cure worse than the disease? And how does this affect economic growth, innovation, and increases in the standards of living in the long run?

Even the bottom 10% of today live better than the richest kings of a few centuries ago. Heck, that's just air conditioning and cars.

 

[ab2cmiller]

But you said "ANY".......As if it doesn't happen.


In fact, now more than ever, kids from less than perfect backgrounds are going to college these days.


Also, you have to ask yourself...what is "successful"??

I didn't say "ANY". I don't know who you are talking to. I tend to agree with you on most issues. I'm just stating that most people wouldn't use athletes as examples to answer that question.

 

[irishpat183]

There are definitely a ton of poor people with little opportunity. The question is, can government save them? And then, is the cure worse than the disease? And how does this affect economic growth, innovation, and increases in the standards of living in the long run?

Even the bottom 10% of today live better than the richest kings of a few centuries ago. Heck, that's just air conditioning and cars.

Go over to my wife's homeland (Africa) and take a look at what real failure/poverty looks like.

 

[irishpat183]

I didn't say "ANY". I don't know who you are talking to. I tend to agree with you on most issues. I'm just stating that most people wouldn't use athletes as examples to answer that question.

WRONG GUY!!! My bad.... that was intended for GoIrish41!! He said any..

 

[irishpat183]

There are definitely a ton of poor people with little opportunity. The question is, can government save them? And then, is the cure worse than the disease? And how does this affect economic growth, innovation, and increases in the standards of living in the long run?

Even the bottom 10% of today live better than the richest kings of a few centuries ago. Heck, that's just air conditioning and cars.

How long have we been fighting the "war on drugs"??

You could ask the same about the wars on poverty or hunger....as if they're any different.

 

[irishpat183]

using NFL plays as your example does sound a bit ... well, since really only about 1700 or 1800 people can even have that job? Should we count the NBA too? We are talking about millions of people and you are going to provide me anecdotal information about a few who have been able to escape? Give me a break.

Intellectually dishonest does not mean stupid, by the way. It means that you are not being honest with what you know to be true. what are you, stupid?

I guess I should put it this way....

I look at the millions that are living in poverty and ask them why they can't be like the ones that have dug themselves out.


You look at them and ask how the system/society has failed them.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Go over to my wife's homeland (Africa) and take a look at what real failure/poverty looks like.

I don't think that's "poverty", in my view. That's just a society without two centuries of capitalism and long-developed property rights.

 

[irishpat183]

I don't think that's "poverty", in my view. That's just a society without two centuries of capitalism and long-developed property rights.

Good point. But for the sake of a comparasion between our ways of life and what people over here call "poor"......

 

[GoIrish41]

I guess I should put it this way....

I look at the millions that are living in poverty and ask them why they can't be like the ones that have dug themselves out.


You look at them and ask how the system/society has failed them.

It is clear as day that we have a different world view. I grew up in poverty and was lucky enough to make my way out. I don't believe in climbing the ladder and then pulling it up behind me. I believe in extending a hand to help pull up the next guy.

 

[PraetorianND]

It is clear as day that we have a different world view. I grew up in poverty and was lucky enough to make my way out. I don't believe in climbing the ladder and then pulling it up behind me. I believe in extending a hand to help pull up the next guy.

+311,000,000

 

[GoIrish41]

I don't think that's "poverty", in my view. That's just a society without two centuries of capitalism and long-developed property rights.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[irishpat183]

It is clear as day that we have a different world view. I grew up in poverty and was lucky enough to make my way out. I don't believe in climbing the ladder and then pulling it up behind me. I believe in extending a hand to help pull up the next guy.

Of course. But that wasn't the point of the argument. I wasnt commenting on what to do after you're successful.

There are hands extended everywhere to everyone. You only need to reach out for one.

It's not my job to make sure everyonoe is successful because I am. I'll help who I can. I don't want to be forced to.

If the ladder is there, what do they need my hand for??

 

[ACamp1900]

I agree withpat for the most part... if a person wants to give more to some cause they believe in you are welcome to it... insisting/expecting others do the same and trusting the gov. the handle the matter is both too intrusive and far too foolish for my tastes.

To the different world views... some think there is not enough money in the system... fine, I disagree... I feel there is FAR too much system in the money. Simple as that... agree/disagree... good for you, no one is changing my mind, at least not on a silly message board.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I agree withpat for the most part... if a person wants to give more to some cause they believe in you are welcome to it... insisting/expecting others do the same and trusting the gov. the handle the matter is both too intrusive and far too foolish for my tastes.

To the different world views... some think there is not enough money in the system... fine, I disagree... I feel there is FAR too much system in the money. Simple as that... agree/disagree... good for you, no one is changing my mind, at least not on a silly message board.

Silly????? Why you no good pooper scooper......

 

[PraetorianND]

Now that I'm off work and I've had a few drinks to start the weekend I just wanted to say..... thanks for keeping me distracted at work. Always love a good political debate and appreciate that we're all different. Irish Envy have some of the best and most respectful (most of the time) people I could ask for to have such debates with. Thanks!