ND Coaching Search Megathread

[rtrn2glory]

So we've upgraded OL, ST, WR, and now DL.

Save your sharts, this is what's called winning amidst chaos.

I'm not sure dl is an upgrade....I think it's cancelled out to where we're back to where we started. Just my opinion

 

[arrowryan]

So we've upgraded OL, ST, WR, and now DL.

Save your sharts, this is what's called winning amidst chaos.

I wouldn’t say DL was upgraded lol. Maintaining what Elston had built at ND would be a huge accomplishment by Washington.

 

[IrishRazor82]

I'm not sure dl is an upgrade....I think it's cancelled out to where we're back to where we started. Just my opinion

Elston spent 12 years as a position coach and his best opportunity after being passed internally 3X was... a lateral move to position coach. Clearly no one thinks he's the next big thing, anywhere.

Not to mention inability to land elite recruits. Hard pass, big upgrade with Washington.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Elston spent 12 years as a position coach and his best opportunity after being passed internally 3X was... a lateral move to position coach. Clearly no one thinks he's the next big thing, anywhere.

Not to mention inability to land elite recruits. Hard pass, big upgrade with Washington.

I thought he recruited pretty well personally. Jury is still out on if it's an upgrade....I sure hope it is

 

[IrishRazor82]

I thought he recruited pretty well personally. Jury is still out on if it's an upgrade....I sure hope it is

The one year we actually signed good DL (Kareem Kahlid, Julian Okwara), Keith Gilmore was the DL coach and Elston was at LB... I think history will show Elston was wildly overrated because of the loyalty/nice guy factor.

And those are awesome personality traits but this is a job.

 

[irishog77]

Elston spent 12 years as a position coach and his best opportunity after being passed internally 3X was... a lateral move to position coach. Clearly no one thinks he's the next big thing, anywhere.

Not to mention inability to land elite recruits. Hard pass, big upgrade with Washington.

Just because a guy may not be a great DC doesn't mean he can't be a great DL coach. We see outstanding coordinators fail miserably as head coaches on the reg. It would be like saying HH isn't a great OL coach because he hasn't been hired as an OC, or because he has been fired several times in his career.

 

[chisea03]

Elston spent 12 years as a position coach and his best opportunity after being passed internally 3X was... a lateral move to position coach. Clearly no one thinks he's the next big thing, anywhere.

Not to mention inability to land elite recruits. Hard pass, big upgrade with Washington.

...And Coach failed his audition against Ok-State

 

[Grahambo]

The main reason I wouldn’t be optimistic on Alford is because they could have already done it. Alford RBs, Taylor WRs was the theoretical right? I guess Elston gone means more titles (and money) now but the opening isn’t actually new here

LT was run game coordinator so you move him to WR’s and strip him of that title? Also, maybe they knew this was going to happen.

 

[IrishRazor82]

Just because a guy may not be a great DC doesn't mean he can't be a great DL coach. We see outstanding coordinators fail miserably as head coaches on the reg. It would be like saying HH isn't a great OL coach because he hasn't been hired as an OC, or because he has been fired several times in his career.

He did not sign a single top 100 player at DE in his 9 years as DL coach... Michigan, OSU, PSU, all signed 6+ each over that time, many schools with 10+. He's a good DL coach, OK recruiter, and I think we just upgraded both of those aspects.

Fill up the kool-aid, this is another win along with OL, ST, and WR.

 

[Dale]

Calling Washington an instant upgrade over Elston is just not correct. First, Washington was a weakness on the OSU staff. Call a spade a spade. The linebackers were not good. Is he a better DL coach? Maybe, hopefully but an for sure upgrade over Elston? No.

 

[rtrn2glory]

The one year we actually signed good DL (Kareem Kahlid, Julian Okwara), Keith Gilmore was the DL coach and Elston was at LB... I think history will show Elston was wildly overrated because of the loyalty/nice guy factor.

And those are awesome personality traits but this is a job.

Haven't recruits recently raved about him? Just a few days ago we were worried about losing a five star recruit because he left? Tyson Ford's family raved about him. He's got two five stars committed in this class. I liked him as a recruiter. We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess

 

[Grahambo]

Just because a guy may not be a great DC doesn't mean he can't be a great DL coach. We see outstanding coordinators fail miserably as head coaches on the reg. It would be like saying HH isn't a great OL coach because he hasn't been hired as an OC, or because he has been fired several times in his career.

We’re talking about trying to get ND to the next level. At some point, you have to find a different voice. Doesn’t mean keeping/losing Elston is/was good/bad but it means sometimes turning in a different direction.

 

[Grahambo]

Calling Washington an instant upgrade over Elston is just not correct. First, Washington was a weakness on the OSU staff. Call a spade a spade. The linebackers were not good. Is he a better DL coach? Maybe, hopefully but an for sure upgrade over Elston? No.

So much a weakness that he turned down the Vols DC position and Kirby Smart was hard after him?

 

[rtrn2glory]

So much a weakness that he turned down the Vols DC position and Kirby Smart was hard after him?

I kinda agree with him..... My honest opinion is the dude was very out of place coaching linebackers but day wanted him on staff to recruit. Hoping the move back to defensive line yields better results on the field.

 

[arrowryan]

I didn’t realize Washington was the DL coach at BC when Landry was dominating

 

[Dale]

So much a weakness that he turned down the Vols DC position and Kirby Smart was hard after him?

Again, he could be better than he was coaching linebackers. But he was not good at coaching linebackers from this years performance. I didn’t really think all the guys that departed last year were that good either. The point is, I’m not ready to push a staple of this programs success in Elston to the side because Al Washington COULD be better at his new job than his old.

 

[irishog77]

He did not sign a single top 100 player at DE in his 9 years as DL coach... Michigan, OSU, PSU, all signed 6+ each over that time, many schools with 10+. He's a good DL coach, OK recruiter, and I think we just upgraded both of those aspects.

Fill up the kool-aid, this is another win along with OL, ST, and WR.

He may end up being a better DL coach than Elston. I hope you're right. I think it's naive, though, to already say "hard pass, big upgrade" on Elston to Washington though. Washington only has a handful of years as a DL coach. And none of those stints scream "elite."

 

[IrishRazor82]

Haven't recruits recently raved about him? Just a few days ago we were worried about losing a five star recruit because he left? Tyson Ford's family raved about him. He's got two five stars committed in this class. I liked him as a recruiter. We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess

Sure, Keon did. And others have too - that happens to every single coach who sticks at a place for a while. I never for a second thought Elston would end up being the deciding factor in Keon because I had faith ND would attract someone as good or better, someone with more upside than a 12 year position coach who has been passed on 3X and just took a lateral move. I don't think you guys realize how nuts that is for a relatively young coach with aspirations - there's no interest in this guy nationally, unlike Washington.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Again, he could be better than he was coaching linebackers. But he was not good at coaching linebackers from this years performance. I didn’t really think all the guys that departed last year were that good either. The point is, I’m not ready to push a staple of this programs success in Elston to the side because Al Washington COULD be better at his new job than his old.

All my Ohio St friends and family did not like him as a coach in terms of his output from the linebackers. They were really bad for a stretch of a month and a half this year

 

[IrishRazor82]

He may end up being a better DL coach than Elston. I hope you're right. I think it's naive, though, to already say "hard pass, big upgrade" on Elston to Washington though. Washington only has a handful of years as a DL coach. And none of those stints scream "elite."

No one in 12 years, not even BK or MF have wanted Elston to do anymore than be a position coach. In the past 2 years, TN has tried to get Washington to be his DC and Georgia and Florida are fighting until the last second to get Washington for DL coach.

ISD said hands down Washington will out recruit Elston on their podcast Tuesday morning. No one is pursuing Elston in any similar fashion and they never have..

Remove the emotion and look at what the market is telling you on Elston vs Washington...

 

[Grahambo]

Again, he could be better than he was coaching linebackers. But he was not good at coaching linebackers from this years performance. I didn’t really think all the guys that departed last year were that good either. The point is, I’m not ready to push a staple of this programs success in Elston to the side because Al Washington COULD be better at his new job than his old.

I hear you. This is better then saying he’s a weakness. Elston could’ve reached his potential and Washington still has room to grow. It does make you wonder why Washington was getting SEC schools after him but Elston wasn’t. Doesn’t mean Elston is a bad coach or that he was overrated. To be honest, it’s not even about Elston. Washington was being courted by the SEC for a few years. That’s exciting.

 

[Dale]

No one in 12 years, not even BK or MF have wanted Elston to do anymore than be a position coach. In the past 2 years, TN has tried to get Washington to be his DC and Georgia and Florida are fighting until the last second to get Washington for DL coach.

ISD said hands down Washington will out recruit Elston on their podcast Tuesday morning. No one is pursuing Elston in any similar fashion and they never have..

Elston having zero future as a DC does not make him a worse DL coach than Washington.

 

[arrowryan]

At the end of the day, it’s about on field production. Elston was great at developing his DL and putting guys in the league.

Washington could be a great recruiter, but I need to see his product before saying he’s an upgrade.

 

[Grahambo]

All my Ohio St friends and family did not like him as a coach in terms of his output from the linebackers. They were really bad for a stretch of a month and a half this year

Sure but we’re asking him to coach the DL and be the run game coordinator. People inside the industry seem to think he’s good.

 

[IrishRazor82]

At the end of the day, it’s about on field production. Elston was great at developing his DL and putting guys in the league.

Washington could be a great recruiter, but I need to see his product before saying he’s an upgrade.

As LB coach at OSU, Washington developed Baron Browning, Malik Harrison and Pete Werner who all got drafted in the first 3 rounds. Prior to that he developed Devin Bush into a top 10 pick. He also recruited and coached Harold Landry at BC who was one of the most disruptive DL in CFB history when you look at havoc rate and single season sacks. Recruiting wise he just got OSU to sign two 5-star LBs in the last class (Styles one of them).

ND fans are so used to "pretty good" that they won't trade in their Kia for a BMW because it's "change".

 

[andre784]

I could be completely wrong but I believe he was coaching against ND when Ian Book threw for only 70 yard at Michigan in the game we got our ass beat. Devin Bush I believe was on that team who ended up going pretty early to Pittsburgh Steelers. I think Ohio St poached him after that year.

 

[irishog77]

No one in 12 years, not even BK or MF have wanted Elston to do anymore than be a position coach. In the past 2 years, TN has tried to get Washington to be his DC and Georgia and Florida are fighting until the last second to get Washington for DL coach.

ISD said hands down Washington will out recruit Elston on their podcast Tuesday morning. No one is pursuing Elston in any similar fashion and they never have..

Elston had opportunities and offers to leave over the years. He was happy at ND and making good money. Why make a lateral move? Wives and kids have a lot os sway and influence when deciding if you're moving as well. Strange things happen. ND and MF were just unable to lure away a guy who has never been at a big-time program from Ames, Iowa and Iowa State. Larry Johnson is considered one of the great DL coaches of all time. But because he hasn't moved around a lot or been offered many DC positions doesn't make him less of a DL coach.

By your own reasoning, ND just hired a guy the current head coach and new DC at osu did not want. If he was such a great coach, why didn't Day offer him (or Larry Johnson) the DC job anyway?

Again, I hope Washington is a great coach. I think it's just not a no-brainer that he's the auto-upgrade you simply assume he is.

 

[NDisme]

I could be completely wrong but I believe he was coaching against ND when Ian Book threw for only 70 yard at Michigan in the game we got our ass beat. Devin Bush I believe was on that team who ended up going pretty early to Pittsburgh Steelers. I think Ohio St poached him after that year.

No he was at OSU in 2019

 

[IrishRazor82]

Elston had opportunities and offers to leave over the years. He was happy at ND and making good money. Why make a lateral move? Wives and kids have a lot os sway and influence when deciding if you're moving as well. Strange things happen. ND and MF were just unable to lure away a guy who has never been at a big-time program from Ames, Iowa and Iowa State. Larry Johnson is considered one of the great DL coaches of all time. But because he hasn't moved around a lot or been offered many DC positions doesn't make him less of a DL coach.

By your own reasoning, ND just hired a guy the current head coach and new DC at osu did not want. If he was such a great coach, why didn't Day offer him (or Larry Johnson) the DC job anyway?

Again, I hope Washington is a great coach. I think it's just not a no-brainer that he's the auto-upgrade you simply assume he is.

What offers did Elston have that weren't a downgrade or lateral? He just hit the open market after 12 years and went.... lateral.

This doesn't guarantee Washington gets 3 five stars every year and they all turn into day 1 picks, but looking at their experience in recruiting, putting players in the league, and market value (all that matters) - it's not even debatable...

We should all be optimistic right now and for good reason.

 

[andre784]

No he was at OSU in 2019

My bad thought he had coached Devin Bush at LB thats why I said he's probably not as bad as some were saying in general.