ND and Prop 48 players

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luckofirish8

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My friend was reading something today that said Tony Rice and one other player are ND only two Prop 48 playersin history. However, it made no mention of who the other player was. Not that it matter much, but I was wondering who the other player was. Does anyone know?
 
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TexasDomer

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They turned out alright, huh?

Every year ND admits students (even non-athletes) who are "risky" from a purely academic perspective because they have unique skills or experiences that can add value to the campus environment. In the case of athletes at Notre Dame, it often gives them access to an education that they wouldn't get most other places, especially since ND graduates their athletes.

Zorich and Rice are two examples of athletes who took advantage of that opportunity, and made the most of their academic experiences at ND. I was fortunate enough to be on campus at the same time as they for a couple of seasons.
 

FtWayneIrishFan

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You guys are wrong. It wasn't Zorich, it was John Foley in 1986. He was a linebacker out of Chicago. I am pretty sure he was National Defensive Player of the Year too.
 

Irish Envy

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You guys are wrong. It wasn't Zorich, it was John Foley in 1986. He was a linebacker out of Chicago. I am pretty sure he was National Defensive Player of the Year too.
According to like 200+ articles on the Internet, it was Zorich. That would be pretty terrible if all of those journalists were incorrect.
 

BGIF

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You guys are wrong. It wasn't Zorich, it was John Foley in 1986. He was a linebacker out of Chicago. I am pretty sure he was National Defensive Player of the Year too.

We have a winner!


ND admitted Prop 48s one year only, 1986. Zorich wasn't on campus in '86.

Zorich was not a prop 48. He only played 3 season because he left early.

Rice and Foley were admitted in '86 but sat out the season - as Prop 48's were required to do. Foley was a Parade AA/Defensive POY. Played one season for ND '87. Had a career ending injury in a bowl game. Inner city Chicago kid like Zorich which may be why people think Zorro was the other 48.
 

Irish Envy

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We have a winner!


ND admitted Prop 48s one year only, 1986. Zorich wasn't on campus in '86.

Zorich was not a prop 48. He only played 3 season because he left early.

Rice and Foley were admitted in '86 but sat out the season - as Prop 48's were required to do. Foley was a Parade AA/Defensive POY. Played one season for ND '87. Had a career ending injury in a bowl game. Inner city Chicago kid like Zorich which may be why people think Zorro was the other 48.
Do you find it odd that almost every story on the Internet by major media outlets got this wrong? Where has credible journalism gone?
 

BGIF

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From the SI Link:
I think there are two things that will bring the program back:
1. Change coaches. Bob Davie is already making excuses for this year saying that the schedule is tough. How can you give your players confidence when you are making excuses before the season starts?
2. Lower the admission standards just a bit. Tony Rice and Chris Zorich are two examples of players who were admitted with a less-than-stellar SAT score but also proved they had what it took to graduate from ND. David Wagner, Lewisville, Texas

Wagner appears to be a fan who responded to an article by Tim Layden, the "Under The Tarnished Dome" guy. He's corrected about the "less-than-stellar SAT score" but doesn't say anything about Prop 48s.

One other apparent fan responded about Zorich but again no Prop 48 reference:
Admission at ND is tough, and should remain that way, but some exceptions should be made for exceptional individuals (ala Chris Zorich and Tony Rice).
Larry Salamone, Rochester, N.Y.
 

BGIF

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The other article is:
Hornung insists he simply 'mis-spoke'

<!-- Sub head goes here --><!-- By line goes here -->[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By GORDON ENGELHARDT[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Scripps Howard News Service
22-JUN-04
[/FONT]


... When Notre Dame last won a national championship, in 1988 under Lou Holtz, Hornung noted that quarterback Tony Rice and defensive tackle Chris Zorich were originally Prop 48's. "They both graduated and Chris Zorich got a law degree," Hornung said. "Those were the type of kids who made it. You don't have to be an absolute (top student coming out of high school)." ...

The title was more appropos than Engelhardt realized. The title dealt with Hornung's trouble over noting ND should lower admissions to get more African American athletes. He got in trouble for phrasing his point poorly.

In this follow up interview with Englehardt, he's incorrect in noting Zorich was a Prop 48 and Englehardt as a journalist apparently didn't bother to check his "facts" with Zorich or UND.
 

BGIF

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Do you find it odd that almost every story on the Internet by major media outlets got this wrong? Where has credible journalism gone?

I believe it's called a circular reference. Somebody wrote and somebody else subsequently uses the first article as a source without checking the facts independently. It's one thing for you or I to do that from a google search. It's a whole different matter for a journalist, whether it's Dan Rather or Carroll and Wieneke, to print something without checking and confirming there facts. There supposed to be professionals.
 

BGIF

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The circular reference thing frequently crops up in recruiting.

Petey Poster starts a thread on a rivals or scout Illinois board, "#1 RB Says It's ND!"

Larry Lurker reads it there and posts on IrishEnvy.com, "Top RB Is Irish!" and links the story above.

Gary Googlesearch finds it through his search engine sees the IrishEnvy site and knowing Svo's tenacity in tracking down news, reports on yet another board, "IrishEnvy Confirms Verbal".

Turns out the original poster was claiming that he goes to the same high school as the RB and he alleges he "overheard" the kid in the coaches office saying he was going to drive to ND the next weekend to check out the campus.

The story gets legs in a hurry and shows up on search engines. Until some scooperesque poster actually reads the message before jumping and notes, "Whoa, I read that first post. The kid doesn't even have an offer. Somebody said they heard ..."

Meanwhile some "journalist" hits the AP wire with a scoop, "WAKE UP THE ECHOS!!!" ...

About a dozen years ago before the days of Rivals and Scout and other internet site of choice (when Svo was checking out the cheerleaders 40's not the TB's) fans hung on the newsletters (and 800 numbers) of a couple of recruiting gurus, Lemming, Wallace, et al. One guy would actually do the leg work and find a a recruit and claim his find, "Read it hear first!" or "Call my 800 number for the latest on Mickey Bitscoe". The others would then call the kid or coach for info but be late with the news. To save time some just started "stealing" the others guy articles and rephrasing them without any contact.

Somebody picked up a story in a Mississippi newspaper about an incredible kid, in the days before everybody ran a 4.2 40, that could run faster that a speeding bullet, able to jump tall buildings in a single bound, ... could outlift Arnold Schwartzenegger (he wasn't Gov then). His name was Arthur McDuffy and he played for a small Mississippi school. Soon McDuffy was touted on just about everybody's lists and reports. He was selected a High School All-American! Then a college coach drove to the small town lock this kid up only to learn that the high school didn't even have a football team.

Turns out Arthur McDuffy didn't exist either. He was made up as a joke on the state newspaper. Somebody spread the story to one guruand the others bit and raced to out scoop each other. They had trouble finding info so they "borrowed" whatever they could find on other recruiting services.

Circular references.

If Search Engines existed then instead of 1200 or 2400 baud modems, the Carroll's and Wieneke's of that time could have found lots of hits to confirm their scoop.


Changing subjects anybody hear ND's got their first Class of '08 verbal from a lockdown corner from Tupelo named Arthur McDuffy, Jr.?
 

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Carpe diem

Carpe diem

August 31, 2001​


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Former Irish prodigy thriving in life after football[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Catching up with ... John Foley[/FONT]
By ERIC HANSEN Irish Sports Report

There are nights when John Foley thrashes and squirms until the alarm clock rescues him at 4 a.m.
Even after a good night's sleep, it's never a given that the former Notre Dame football player will be able to get out of bed by himself or hug his sons without pain or shave without remembering the hit that ended his career.
But every day John Foley looks in the mirror and his eyes light up.

"I'm feel like the luckiest guy in the world," he said. "I live with a lot of pain, but I've been given a lot of gifts. The best thing that ever happened to me was for my football career to end. It opened the door to my dreams."

Foley's two youngest sons, Tyler (7) and Nicholas (4), think their dad works flipping burgers. The 34-year-old Notre Dame graduate actually works for a firm called McDonald Investments, drives a Mercedes Benz from St. Charles. Ill., into Chicago every day and shares a 5,000-square foot home with wife Pam, son Ryan (9) and the two younger boys.
He reads incessantly, rarely socializes outside the family and cringes that Ryan has taken up football.

"I never knew that life had so much out there," he said. "I mean, I lived in an apartment in the inner city growing up. My dad drove a beer truck. My mom worked as hard as anyone. But we didn't have much. So I was floored when I got to Notre Dame and there were kids who had computers in their rooms and whose dads had company cars.
"It's amazing the opportunity Notre Dame creates."
And equally amazing was how well Foley took advantage of it.

The hit
It was the tail end of Foley's sophomore year and Notre Dame was matched up with Texas A&M in the Cotton Bowl to cap the 1987 season. The Aggies had a promising, young linebackers coach by the name of Bob Davie and the Irish had newly crowned Heisman Trophy winner Tim Brown.
Foley was hardly a footnote in the scheme of things. The former Parade All-America linebacker and USA Today Defensive Player of the Year had been switched to the defensive line late in the season and appeared as if he had found a home there. His performance on the line against the Aggies was stellar.
The Chicago product had long been a terror on special teams and was operating with his usual proficiency that New Year's Day, even as the Aggies were pummeling the Irish 35-10.
"If you look at the tapes, Tim Brown almost broke the first two kickoffs for touchdowns," Foley said. "One of the reasons was because I was taking their '12th man' out every time. But the third kickoff they changed their strategy.

Texas A&M sent the two players after Foley -- "one to distract me, one to take me out," he remembers.
"I got hit so hard, I couldn't think straight. I mean, one guy put his helmet in my neck. I played the rest of the game, but my career was over. I lost the use of my right arm for about a year. The doctors told me that it might get better for a while but that down the line it would affect me tremendously. Eventually, they said, the pain would come back and it might never go away."

That wasn't the scariest part for Foley, however. Being separated from football forever was.
"I honestly had a lot of emotional problems when I got hurt," Foley said. "I actually, no exaggeration, thought my life was going to end. I didn't think I was smart enough to get a real job. I never had confidence that I could do anything out in the real world."

The slap in the face

What Foley never realized was that he had long been immersed in the real world, and the NCAA saw to that.
The NCAA had just instituted its most controversial legislation in years -- Proposition 48. Prospective student-athletes would henceforth be held to minimum GPAs in their "core curriculum" and minimum scores on the SAT and/or ACT college entrance exams.
Prospects who did not meet the minimums would be required to sit out their freshman season with no opportunity to so much as practice with the team and no opportunity to recoup that lost year -- even if they went on to become valedictorian of their class. (Proposition 48 still exists today, but in a much less restricted form).

The first group to be affected by the rule were the freshmen entering college in the fall of 1986. Foley, Tony Rice and Irish men's basketball player Keith Robinson were all snagged by the new legislation and ended up being the only Prop 48 players ND has ever accepted.

"I can remember how hard it was on me to have football taken away from me," said Rice, who eventually quarterbacked ND to the 1988 national title and received his degree.
"But for John, I think it was even worse. I'm glad he stuck in there. I'm glad he didn't give up."
Prop 48 casualties in that era carried a stigma. Some walked away from college altogether. The ones that stuck with it were often heckled by opposing fans in the games and fellow students in the hallways.

"I laugh at those people now who made that rule," Foley said. "I don't want to sound arrogant, but I probably make two to three times what the president does. But then again, I owe it all to Notre Dame and to Lou Holtz."


Picking up the pieces

While playing football for the Irish, Foley hated Holtz, loathed his methods, was confused about what he stood for.
When he suffered the injury, that perception died.

"I wasn't taking school very seriously when I was playing ball," Foley said. "And I really didn't think Lou Holtz cared about grades anyway. Well, let me tell you something, Lou Holtz cares as much as anybody. Lou Holtz spent more time with me after football was no longer there for me than when I was a player. The whole university supported me. I owe everything to Notre Dame."

Foley graduated and found his way into the business world. He listened to motivational tapes in the car and metabolized every word. His wife put up with moves to Minnesota, Massachusetts, Tennessee and back to the Chicago area all within a five-year period as Foley eschewed the corporate ladder for a high-speed elevator.

"I turned down a job for seven figures a few months ago," Foley said. "It just wasn't a good fit."
Life as he knows it, though, is a good fit -- even though the doctors were right about the pain coming back.
"It happened when I was 27," he said. "Now, I've got a lot of swelling in my spine. Eventually, I'll need reconstructive surgery on my back. It's just a matter of when."
Yet if the pain never went away, Foley wouldn't rewrite the script.

"Life goes on without football because of Notre Dame," he said. "I never stop thinking about how grateful I am. In fact, I called Lou Holtz a few months ago and left a voice mail, thanking him.
"And when I can't sleep in the middle of the night, that's a great thought to hang onto. I'm 34 and I have my whole life ahead of me.
"I'm blessed."
 
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