ND 2012 vs 2018

[irishtrooper]

I know one thing for sure, I feel way more confident in this team than in 12. Can win in more ways it seems and the secondary are my main reasons, but the QB and depth are huge advantages as well.

 

[ND88]

huge dose
this team does have some luck, but not near 2012 level.

What luck have we used up so far?

For me, it’s Lea. We were really fortunate with his hire.

 

[ND88]

I agree w/ Kelly in that 2012 had more stars but 2018 is a more complete team. That being said, ND is not winning a NC behind that OL...they’re average at best. Additionally, the ST is a deficit.

What ND has going for them is that there’s a ton of parity in CFB this year. Bama & Clemson are the only complete teams that seem to be a tier above ND.

The goal is to get to the CFP & ND has a great chance to accomplish that. What they do beyond that is anyone’s guess.

Heistand stays one more year. Bars doesn’t get injured. We’d be golden there.

 

[EddytoNow]

18 for sure. We have the better head coach 🙈

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I laughed when I first read this, considering that Kelly coached both teams. However, the more I thought about it, the more I agreed. The 2018 Coach Kelly is a much better coach than the 2012 Coach Kelly.

Kelly has learned from his mistakes. He has hired very good offensive and defensive coordinators and is allowing them to coach. While he remains the head of the program, he is showing more trust in his assistant coaches.

 

[Irishize]

The D Line was beastly in 12,... special unit even compared to this one. Aside from that this team is far more compete imo

True but it lacked talented depth whereas this team has that as we’ve witnessed every game.

 

[PANDFAN]

. Notre Dame. Flattened Syracuse 36-3. Listen, I have nothing but jokes for Notre Dame when it comes to the Yankees-themed pinstripe uniforms. Notre Dame would be the first team to co-brand a uniform with Amazon, the first to do a dual-logo football jersey with Duke basketball, and the first team to wear Range Rover-themed cleats. None of this is a surprise. If Notre Dame played a game in Spain, they would 100 percent come out in all-white jerseys in honor of Real Madrid, and definitely not Barcelona.

Unlike Real Madrid — another venerable, old money power — Notre Dame hasn’t won anything of note for years and has a hard time measuring success.

This is not Notre Dame the Football Team’s fault. As college football’s last mighty independent, the only championship Notre Dame can win is THE national title. The Irish live in the unique position of having to decide whether they had a satisfying year or not without using conference play as a report card. there’s a question about that for 2018 to this point, there shouldn’t be. Notre Dame deboned Syracuse, reduced them to a gelatinous thing so incapable of moving the ball that the Orange had to rely on an Officially Sad Field Goal in the fourth quarter to avoid a shutout. The offense barely had to sweat. Ian Book had open men all over the field, while the Notre Dame rushing attack clicked along nicely for 171 yards and two scores.

And that’s been the story the whole year. They’ve been better than good, to the point where the only jokes are their specialty uniforms. Which are awful. Let’s be totally clear on that while saying things like “Notre Dame should stop having flashbacks to 2012, because it is six years later and they should get over that, because this is an entirely different team and a much deeper roster.” Because at one point, jokes aside, Notre Dame will have to realize that it stands a chance to seriously compete for the one title they can win outright.

P.S. This isn’t me writing this about Notre Dame, and we will never discuss this again.



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[IrishSteelhead]

Toma gets on Nixs shoulders

Finke gets on Tillerys shoulders

You hand Toma and Finke a baseball bat, and then let nature decide who was a better team


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[Desolation Angel]

the Orange had to rely on an Officially Sad Field Goal

Pathetic. Was at the game with my sons behind home plate so we got a nice view of that chickenshizzle play call. Even worse was the possession prior that they clanked a short field goal try off the upright trying to avoid the shutout. My seven year old told his mother at dinner today that it was his favorite moment of the game.

 

[Irish YJ]

the Orange had to rely on an Officially Sad Field Goal

Pathetic. Was at the game with my sons behind home plate so we got a nice view of that chickenshizzle play call. Even worse was the possession prior that they clanked a short field goal try off the upright trying to avoid the shutout. My seven year old told his mother at dinner today that it was his favorite moment of the game.

i actually liked Babers reasoning behind the FG during the post game presser.

 

[NDRock]

Honestly, I don’t really remember Notre Dame being that lucky in 2012 (seems like revionist history). Sure the Pitt game where we had two #2’s on the field but that literally had zero effect on the missed FG. What I do remember is that defense dominating every damn week. Go look at the scores, they gave up over 17 one time (OT game to Pitt where they scored 20 in regulation). Hell, we lead the nation in scoring defense and had a ILB almost win the Heisman.

Overall, this team is better because the offense is so much better. At the same time, if we get blown out in the playoffs, people will say we weren’t really that good this year.

 

[Irish YJ]

What luck have we used up so far?

For me, it’s Lea. We were really fortunate with his hire.

little here, little there. none where we really had to have it. scUM game we definitely used a little. not saying we were lucky to win. we just had some luck in the game, and at very good times. Pitt was the same a bit.

i'm with you on Lea. i'll be honest, i wasn't blown away with the promotion. i was happy that they wanted to keep the same elko D, just wasn't sure if Lea could step up. But boy has he.

 

[ND88]

Honestly, I don’t really remember Notre Dame being that lucky in 2012 (seems like revionist history). Sure the Pitt game where we had two #2’s on the field but that literally had zero effect on the missed FG. What I do remember is that defense dominating every damn week. Go look at the scores, they gave up over 17 one time (OT game to Pitt where they scored 20 in regulation). Hell, we lead the nation in scoring defense and had a ILB almost win the Heisman.

Overall, this team is better because the offense is so much better. At the same time, if we get blown out in the playoffs, people will say we weren’t really that good this year.

People are already saying and/or thinking we will get blown out in the playoffs. People also said we would lose our opener to Michigan, as well as be the victims of upsets to Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech, Northwestern, and Syracuse. People who aren't fans of us don't respect us, and that's unlikely to change. It's just the way it is. We soundly destroyed a Syracuse team this weekend and there was hardly a peep about it, even though many so-called experts were picking us to lose. Instead, the focus was on Ohio State's "epic win" against a 5-5 horrible Maryland team that essentially handed them the win. Ohio St. didn't earn that. They got lucky they were less terrible. In other words, there is no converting of outsiders. We have nothing to gain or lose from them. Outsiders can't give us anything that we would want, except the trophy. So by that measure, we have only to gain for ourselves and so must live up to our own expectations. #BeatU$C

 

[NDRock]

People are already saying and/or thinking we will get blown out in the playoffs. People also said we would lose our opener to Michigan, as well as be the victims of upsets to Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech, Northwestern, and Syracuse. People who aren't fans of us don't respect us, and that's unlikely to change. It's just the way it is. We soundly destroyed a Syracuse team this weekend and there was hardly a peep about it, even though many so-called experts were picking us to lose. Instead, the focus was on Ohio State's "epic win" against a 5-5 horrible Maryland team that essentially handed them the win. Ohio St. didn't earn that. They got lucky they were less terrible. In other words, there is no converting of outsiders. We have nothing to gain or lose from them. Outsiders can't give us anything that we would want, except the trophy. So by that measure, we have only to gain for ourselves and so must live up to our own expectations. #BeatU$C

I’m talking about Notre Dame fans. I see people on this board all the time downgrade the 2012 team and most of it is because of the way it ended. While that season was going on, nobody was talking about how lucky we were or how we were doing it with smoke and mirrors. Hell, people were rooting for us to play Alabama. We were a damn good football team in 2012 and I wouldn’t doubt they would be 11-0 with the schedule we’ve played this year. Unfortunately, Kansas State lost late or we could be going for our 2nd NC of the decade.

 

[ND88]

I’m talking about Notre Dame fans. I see people on this board all the time downgrade the 2012 team and most of it is because of the way it ended. While that season was going on, nobody was talking about how lucky we were or how we were doing it with smoke and mirrors. Hell, people were rooting for us to play Alabama. We were a damn good football team in 2012 and I wouldn’t doubt they would be 11-0 with the schedule we’ve played this year. Unfortunately, Kansas State lost late or we could be going for our 2nd NC of the decade.

Oh, I got you. Yeah, you are definitely right about that. We absolutely were an awesome team in 2012. It had a ton of personality as well. I think the most growth for ND has actually happened with our coaching staff, and there is also a cohesiveness to the team that seems focused in a way that suggests Miami taught them a valuable lesson last year.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Didn't Kelly say something about how our '1s' were among the best of the best, but we didn't have '2s' at nearly the same level

 

[Mavericknyc1980]

Honestly, I don’t really remember Notre Dame being that lucky in 2012 (seems like revionist history). Sure the Pitt game where we had two #2’s on the field but that literally had zero effect on the missed FG. What I do remember is that defense dominating every damn week. Go look at the scores, they gave up over 17 one time (OT game to Pitt where they scored 20 in regulation). Hell, we lead the nation in scoring defense and had a ILB almost win the Heisman.

Overall, this team is better because the offense is so much better. At the same time, if we get blown out in the playoffs, people will say we weren’t really that good this year.

That 2012 team beat a lot of ranked teams. They lucked out in 2 games the Pitt game and the Stanford game. But this team has more depth and better offense.

 

[NDRock]

That 2012 team beat a lot of ranked teams. They lucked out in 2 games the Pitt game and the Stanford game. But this team has more depth and better offense.

Serious question, how did they luck out against Stanford? Pitt I can see since the guy missed a makeable FG to win.

 

[Irish YJ]

Didn't Kelly say something about how our '1s' were among the best of the best, but we didn't have '2s' at nearly the same level

he said something like - 2012 had some very talented individuals. he said 2018 is a case where the sum is greater than the parts.

 

[Mavericknyc1980]

Serious question, how did they luck out against Stanford? Pitt I can see since the guy missed a makeable FG to win.

If you look back at that game, the last play were ND stops Stanford at the gosling, the RB was never done moving his legs and that the refs called it dead prematurely.

 

[NDRock]

If you look back at that game, the last play were ND stops Stanford at the gosling, the RB was never done moving his legs and that the refs called it dead prematurely.

The whistle blew because forward progress was stopped. He only got in after the whistle and when the defense stopped. Also, that would have only tied the game, wasn’t for the win. Don’t consider that lucky at all.

 

[Riddickulous]

By unit:

QB - 2018
RB - Draw
WR - 2018
TE - 2012
OL - 2012
DL - 2018
LB - Draw
CB - 2018
S - 2018
ST - 2012

Coaching Staff - 2018

 

[stlnd01]

Whether the 2012 team "lucked out" against Stanford or not (I'd say not), that team had six one-score wins. Most of these were not against world-beaters (Purdue, BYU, a middling USC that was without its starting QB).

This team has four one-score wins, and three of them came before the switch to Book. Most of the better teams we've played we have beaten easily. Aside from the Pitt game, how many minutes have we even trailed this season?

 

[Irish YJ]

By unit:

QB - 2018
RB - Draw
WR - 2018
TE - 2012
OL - 2012
DL - 2018
LB - Draw
CB - 2018
S - Draw
ST - 2012

Coaching Staff - 2018

QB - 2018
RB - Draw on the stable overall, but Dex is better than both 2012 leaders
WR - 2018
TE - Draw. This would be 2018 if Mack was used like Eifert.
OL - 2012
DL - Draw
LB - Draw
CB - 2018
S - 2018
ST - 2012

2012 Notre Dame Depth Chart
September 24, 2012


OFFENSE
WR
7 TJ Jones 5-11 190 Jr.
2 Chris Brown 6-2 172 Fr.

WR
9 Robby Toma 5-9 185 Sr.
19 Davonte’ Neal 5-9 171 Fr.

LT
70 Zack Martin 6-4 304 Sr.
78 Ronnie Stanley 6-6 304 Fr.

LG
66 Chris Watt 6-3 310 Jr.
65 Conor Hanratty 6-5 304 So.

C
52 Braxston Cave 6-3 304 Sr.
57 Mike Golic Jr. 6-3 295 Sr.

RG
57 Mike Golic Jr. 6-3 295 Sr.
72 Nick Martin 6-4 290 So.

RT
74 Christian Lombard 6-5 309 Jr.
72 Nick Martin 6-4 290 So.

TE
80 Tyler Eifert 6-6 251 Sr.
18 Ben Koyack 6-5 253 So.

WR
87 Daniel Smith 6-4 215 Jr.
10 DaVaris Daniels 6-2 190 So.

QB
5 Everett Golson 6-0 185 So.
11 Tommy Rees 6-2 210 Jr.

TB
6 Theo Riddick 5-11 200 Sr. or
20 Cierre Wood 6-0 215 Sr. DEFENSE
DE
89 K.Lewis-Moore 6-4 306 Sr.
91 Sheldon Day 6-2 286 Fr.

NG
9 Louis Nix 6-3 326 Jr.
96 Kona Schwenke 6-4 290 Jr.

DE
7 Stephon Tuitt 6-6 303 So.
69 Tony Springmann 6-6 300 So.

OLB
55 Prince Shembo 6-2 250 Jr.
11 Ishaq Williams 6-5 255 So.

ILB
48 Dan Fox 6-3 240 Sr.
44 Carlo Calabrese 6-1 245 Sr.

ILB
5 Manti Te’o 6-2 255 Sr.
59 Jarrett Grace 6-3 240 So.

OLB
13 Danny Spond 6-2 248 Jr.
30 Ben Councell 6-5 240 So.

CB
2 Bennett Jackson 6-0 185 Jr.
21 Jalen Brown 6-1 199 So.

S
17 Zeke Motta 6-2 215 Sr.
29 Nicky Baratti 6-1 206 Fr.

S
41 Matthias Farley 5-11 200 So..
24 Chris Salvi 5-10 190 Sr.

CB
6 KeiVarae Russell 5-11 182 Fr.
43 Josh Atkinson 5-11 185 So.

KICKING SPECIALISTS
PK
27 Kyle Brindza 6-1 225 So. or
40 Nick Tausch 6-0 190 Sr.

KO
27 Kyle Brindza 6-1 225 So.

P
35 Ben Turk 5-11 196 Sr.
27 Kyle Brindza 6-1 225 So.

H
35 Ben Turk 5-11 196 Sr.

LS
60 Jordan Cowart 6-2 230 Sr.
61 Scott Daly 6-2 245 Fr.

RETURN SPECIALISTS
KR
4 George Atkinson III 6-1 210 So.
33 Cam McDaniel 5-10 195 So.

PR
19 Davonte’ Neal 5-9 171 Fr.
6 Theo Riddick 5-11 200 Sr.

 

[Mavericknyc1980]

The whistle blew because forward progress was stopped. He only got in after the whistle and when the defense stopped. Also, that would have only tied the game, wasn’t for the win. Don’t consider that lucky at all.

I mean we can agree to disagree. I still loved that 12 team, but this team is better then that squad.

 

[NDRock]

I mean we can agree to disagree. I still loved that 12 team, but this team is better then that squad.

I agree that this team is better, just feel the need to defend the ‘12 team when ND fans start talking about how lucky they were or it was all smoke and mirrors. Still not sure how you can say we got lucky on that goal line stand vs. Stanford. One of the great moments in ND history. Hell, they reviewed the play on instant replay. That D only gave up 2 rushing TDs all regular season. Stopping people on the goal line was what they did.

One thing that would have been interesting was if that 2012 team had someone like Chip Long as OC. There was a lot of talent on that offense, but Chuck Martin was a below avg OC. Very little creativity that year.

 

[Desolation Angel]

i actually liked Babers reasoning behind the FG during the post game presser.

I just watched it. He makes a convincing argument for doing it but then why bother chucking the ball down the field to get in position to kick after the last drive ended in a miss? I really wanted these guys to get the shutout.

 

[ND88]

The other question: Is Alabama 2012 better than Alabama 2018? QB is clearly a no, right?

 

[Kingbish01]

I think 2018 would be laying 10 or 11 to the 2012 team, and I'd bet on the 18 team.

 

[Irish YJ]

I just watched it. He makes a convincing argument for doing it but then why bother chucking the ball down the field to get in position to kick after the last drive ended in a miss? I really wanted these guys to get the shutout.

i think his point is, don't quit, but don't do unnecessary stuff since the outcome is unavoidable. i think they just treated it like a normal down/series, and took the points. regardless of what he says there was a part of him that wanted to smash the goose egg. I think both can be true. i wanted the shut out too, but we failed to stop them, so I'm not all that disgusted.

 

[Irish YJ]

I think 2018 would be laying 10 or 11 to the 2012 team, and I'd bet on the 18 team.

i think the 2018 Bama team would beat the 2012 Bama team handily.