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TorontoGold

TorontoGold

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Bluto said:
You’re demonstrably wrong. It worked in Northern Ireland.
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When do we bring up Nelson Mandela and the ANC? Is that a level 2 discussion? Saudi Arabia?

Or how do we reconcile the fact that often times the response to native American's is "get over it, it happened" and then those same people will say "you know, it's ok to remove people from their homes because a race of people lived here thousands of years ago".

A fun experiment would be to see if there be support for Russia arming indigenous American's with nukes and supporting military combat with other US citizens. Of course, there shouldn't/wouldn't be support for that.
 
Sea Turtle

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Irish#1 said:
Northern Ireland? Congrats, you found the needle in the haystack, yet there is a significant difference! The IRA might have been considered a terrorist organization, but their activities were about political representation. Terrorists in the ME justify their activities by their religious beliefs and by the fact that other nations carved out an area in the ME for the Jewish population with Israel admitted to the UN in '48. The terrorist groups in the ME have taken their activities to the U.S., France, England and other countries. Apples and oranges.
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The IRA were something else. I watched a movie about them years ago. It was crazy. It had Forest Whitaker in it and some chick who ended up being a dude.
 
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Irish#1 said:
Northern Ireland? Congrats, you found the needle in the haystack, yet there is a significant difference! The IRA might have been considered a terrorist organization, but their activities were about political representation. Terrorists in the ME justify their activities by their religious beliefs and by the fact that other nations carved out an area in the ME for the Jewish population with Israel admitted to the UN in '48. The terrorist groups in the ME have taken their activities to the U.S., France, England and other countries. Apples and oranges.
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South Africa?

The Dayton Agreement?

Congratulations you’ve demonstrated you don t know what you’re talking about.

Hamas is a recognized political actor in what’s going on in Palestine as much as Sinn Fein was is Northern Ireland.

And no, certain factions within the IRA were adamant about the absolute withdrawal of the British from Ireland. Disagreement on that is what ultimately lead to the falling out between Brendan Hughes along with the Price sisters with Jerry Adam’s and Sinn Fein.
 
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Sea Turtle said:
The IRA were something else. I watched a movie about them years ago. It was crazy. It had Forest Whitaker in it and some chick who ended up being a dude.
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You should watch the Netflix series Say Nothing based on the book by Patrick Radden Keefe. Does a pretty good job of examining the complexity of the Troubles. Only criticism is that it glosses over the role that the Unionist militias and their coordination with the British played.
 
Greenore

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Bluto said:
You should watch the Netflix series Say Nothing based on the book by Patrick Radden Keefe. Does a pretty good job of examining the complexity of the Troubles. Only criticism is that it glosses over the role that the Unionist militias and their coordination with the British played.
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If you are interested in such things, check out "The Miami Showband Massacre".

Cheers and Go Irish

Edit: I should have added that the documentary is available on Netflix.
 
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Irish#1

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Bluto said:
South Africa?

The Dayton Agreement?

Congratulations you’ve demonstrated you don t know what you’re talking about.

Hamas is a recognized political actor in what’s going on in Palestine as much as Sinn Fein was is Northern Ireland.

And no, certain factions within the IRA were adamant about the absolute withdrawal of the British from Ireland. Disagreement on that is what ultimately lead to the falling out between Brendan Hughes along with the Price sisters with Jerry Adam’s and Sinn Fein.
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I see you've joined Toronto in being the smartest guy in the room. How does that work because only one can be the smartest. You guys take turns? South Africa was a racial issue where whites devised a system to keep blacks in poverty. The Dayton agreement was to end an internal war in Bosnia. In both of those cases these factions weren't attacking the U.S. or its allies.

Stay on target here. I've been talking about ME terrorist organizations and their history of doing what they want regardless of the measures put in place. Hamas may be recognized as a political actor, but they are also considered a terrorist organization. What was that attack in October if not an act of terrorism? It sure wasn't a military strike against Israel's military.

I'm glad they have come to an agreement, but I have serious doubts that it will last if it even gets put in place.
 
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Irish#1 said:
I see you've joined Toronto in being the smartest guy in the room. How does that work because only one can be the smartest. You guys take turns? South Africa was a racial issue where whites devised a system to keep blacks in poverty. The Dayton agreement was to end an internal war in Bosnia. In both of those cases these factions weren't attacking the U.S. or its allies.

Stay on target here. I've been talking about ME terrorist organizations and their history of doing what they want regardless of the measures put in place. Hamas may be recognized as a political actor, but they are also considered a terrorist organization. What was that attack in October if not an act of terrorism? It sure wasn't a military strike against Israel's military.

I'm glad they have come to an agreement, but I have serious doubts that it will last if it even gets put in place..
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Oh boy.

You stated negotiations “never worked”. I gave a clear cut example debunking that. You poo pooed it. I gave you two more and now you have shifted the discussion to negotiating with terrorists in the mid east writ large. Kind of ridiculous.

The ANC was classified as a terrorist organization by the governments of South Africa, Britain and the US.

The current conflict is one between two distinct ethnic groups engaged in a 100 year long internal struggle to control the former British mandate of Palestine. Kind of like you know, what happened in Bosnia.

Neither Hamas or the Palestinian Authority has been engaged in any direct combat with the US military that I am aware of.

What happened on October 7th was a barbaric act of war where numerous war crimes were committed. What has happened after has been the persecution of a war with many more war crimes being committed including genocide and ethnic cleansing again much like what happened in Bosnia.

I had serious doubts about the ceasefire given Israel being a continuous bad actor in such matters and viola, it looks like Netanyahu is trying to scuttle it once again.
 
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TorontoGold

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Irish#1 said:
I see you've joined Toronto in being the smartest guy in the room. How does that work because only one can be the smartest. You guys take turns? South Africa was a racial issue where whites devised a system to keep blacks in poverty. The Dayton agreement was to end an internal war in Bosnia. In both of those cases these factions weren't attacking the U.S. or its allies.

Stay on target here. I've been talking about ME terrorist organizations and their history of doing what they want regardless of the measures put in place. Hamas may be recognized as a political actor, but they are also considered a terrorist organization. What was that attack in October if not an act of terrorism? It sure wasn't a military strike against Israel's military.

I'm glad they have come to an agreement, but I have serious doubts that it will last if it even gets put in place.
Click to expand...

In your opinion, how do you square up the treatment of Mizrahi and Sephardic jewish people by the Israeli government? Do you believe them to be treated fairly? I know how you feel about Muslim people - so when it comes to the other jewish ethnicities what are your thoughts on that?

Mandela was labeled a terrorist by Thatcher/Reagan/Mulroney, interesting ideology all of those three share.
 
Irish#1

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Bluto said:
Oh boy.

You stated negotiations “never worked”. I gave a clear cut example debunking that. You poo pooed it. I gave you two more and now you have shifted the discussion to negotiating with terrorists in the mid east writ large. Kind of ridiculous.

The ANC was classified as a terrorist organization by the governments of South Africa, Britain and the US.

The current conflict is one between two distinct ethnic groups engaged in a 100 year long internal struggle to control the former British mandate of Palestine. Kind of like you know, what happened in Bosnia.

Neither Hamas or the Palestinian Authority has been engaged in any direct combat with the US military that I am aware of.

What happened on October 7th was a barbaric act of war where numerous war crimes were committed. What has happened after has been the persecution of a war with many more war crimes being committed including genocide and ethnic cleansing again much like what happened in Bosnia.

I had serous doubts about the ceasefire given Israel being a continuous bad actor in such matters and viola, it looks like Netanyahu is trying to scuttle it once again.
Click to expand...
I didn't say negotiations never worked, I said disarmament will never work. I didn't shift the discussions to ME terrorist organizations, I started there and was focused on the ME because that's where this is happening. You shifted to conflicts that were different. The others you bring up were conflicts within a country. Hamas attacked another country.

What happened after is regrettable and I'm not condoning it at all. There's key points that need to kept at the forefront. This was initiated by Hamas the bad actor. Israel has been dealing with attacks for along time. They decided the best way to try and put this to bed forever is to wipe out Hamas. It was Hamas decision to use their own citizens as human shields with a total disregard for their welfare. Right or wrong, if Israel first stopped at that point, Israel would still be dealing with terrorist attacks. I suspect Netanyahu is hedging his bet because he knows Hamas can't be trusted.
 
Irish#1

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TorontoGold said:
In your opinion, how do you square up the treatment of Mizrahi and Sephardic jewish people by the Israeli government? Do you believe them to be treated fairly? I know how you feel about Muslim people - so when it comes to the other jewish ethnicities what are your thoughts on that?

Mandela was labeled a terrorist by Thatcher/Reagan/Mulroney, interesting ideology all of those three share.
Click to expand...
No, you don't know how I feel about Muslims. I had a guy that worked for me about 5 years ago that is Muslim. We got along great. Not all Muslims are terrorist, but the groups that are doing all of the attacking are made up of Muslims.
 
TorontoGold

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Irish#1 said:
No, you don't know how I feel about Muslims. I had a guy that worked for me about 5 years ago that is Muslim. We got along great. Not all Muslims are terrorist, but the groups that are doing all of the attacking are made up of Muslims.
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Your post regarding a person’s ethnicity where once learning it you knew he was a terrorist - is that then wrong? You never clarified when I asked so you can clear things up pretty easily.
 
NDVirginia19

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Never forget how the NYT fired their sciences and health reporter Donald McNeil for a bullshit cause in the middle of the pandemic (discussed the N word and whether or not it should be used and in what circumstances from a philosophical and ontological standpoint) and then immediately hired Apoorva Mandavilli whose first story was to talk about the lab leak "theory" being racist lol. Makes you curious about who got her that job...
 
sixstar

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Right after Fauci got his preemptive pardon.
Curiously fortuitous timing. Unfortunately for Daszak and Baric, they aren't protected class, so their punishment is inevitable.

Amazing how a bunch of supposed inbred horse paste enthusiasts somehow knew this 4 years before the braintrust inside the CIA.

Or just maybe, CIA always knew, and the government colluded with social media companies to suppress facts.
 
drayer54

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Frame it.

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