Lowering standards?

[SpeedsterX]

Montana: Notre Dame should lower expectations - Dave Curtis - College Football - Sporting News

You're wrong Joe, it's not Notre Dame that should be lowering its standards!

Notre Dame should never lower its standards. The problem I see is with the kids! Yes, I said the kids now-a-days. They should be raising THEIR standards, grade wise, to be eligible to be accepted to Notre Dame.

In years past, being a part of the Notre Dame Fighting Irish was a dream for elite talents and they (and their parents) made damn sure that they studied their asses off to be able to be accepted. Some (or should I say most) kids today are lazy and just want to get by to be able to try and qualify to be an NFL contender after 3-5 years. Society today makes looking for the easy way out acceptable as long as you reach your ultimate goal. Who would really rather work for their fortune than just buy a winning Lotto ticket?

The few kids who actually value an education and aspire to be better people are few and far between today or so it seems (see Tai'ler and Te'o). There are some that still "get it" but the fast track of the football factories provide are getting harder and harder to overcome. It's almost a societal change and that, to me, is the saddest part. Things like "Show me the money" has whittled away at the moral fabric for so long that it's becoming acceptable and almost admired. Sad.

Football players are the ones who need to aspire to be more than just great football players, they need to aspire to be great people or college football will eventually become professional basketball and it's happening more and more (see the Gators rap sheets). When that day comes, my heart will be broken.

 

[jason_h537]

Thats because athletes today are put on a pedestal. Schools make large amounts of money off of sports and with the importance placed on athletics, modern day recruiting, and the internet, these kids are now celebrities before they have ever accomplished anything. All kids are ignorant and stupid, thats why they are kids. Every generation has complained about how kids today have lost something from the past. Yet each generation grows and life goes on. There are plenty of kids out there who manage to balance football and academics, and not all of them choose to go to Notre Dame. It is hard to sell a school when you have programs like USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Florida, Miami, etc. that can offer academics, warm weather, beautifull women, and a path to the NFL.

Charlie Weis has proved that he can recruit without sacrificing academics. Now its about developing those players and winning games that will allow us to recruit even more elite kids.

 

[BGIF]

Montana: Notre Dame should lower expectations - Dave Curtis - College Football - Sporting News

You're wrong Joe, it's not Notre Dame that should be lowering its standards!

...

Joe was talking about fans lowering their expectations for the football team because of the academic standards. ND's academic requirements both for admission and to stay eligible are tougher than most. The playing field isn't level.

 

[SpeedsterX]

Joe was talking about fans lowering their expectations for the football team because of the academic standards. ND's academic requirements both for admission and to stay eligible are tougher than most. The playing field isn't level.

No, it's not, nor should it be. It never has been.

BUT, We've been the premier program for generations in the past. Weird, huh?

 

[BGIF]

No, it's not, nor should it be. It never has been.

BUT, We've been the premier program for generations in the past. Weird, huh?

I not sure that's an accurate characterization of the program. George Gipp could not have gotten in ND in the past 20 years at least. Nor would he have stayed in school more than a semester if admitted. More than a few of Rockne's boys had a checkered academic history. When Rockne was killed, the administration cracked down when Hunk Anderson became head coach and more than a few left the program. Recruits that would have been admitted a year earlier were denied.

When Leahy "retired" once again the Administration took a more active role in athletic admissions. Fr Hesburgh cut football scholarships. Hesburgh wanted to stress academic achievement over athletics. He laid the groundwork for ND's academic excellence of today. Hornung and several others would have a tough time staying out of ResLife's way today.

When Parshegian was first interviewed by Fr Hesburgh, Ara left without accepting the job. They were some questions including Admissions. A few days later there was a meeting of the minds and Ara accepted the offer to become Head Coach. Ross Browner and several others were suspended from school for a year over an incident that today would probably result in explusion.

Holtz was the first one to face scholarship reductions as we know them today, the 25/85 Rule. At the same time Monk was raising the academic excellence championed by Hesburgh. During the Holtz heyday there was friction between Holtz, Cerrato, and Rooney, the head of ND Admissions. It culminated in '95 when Randy Moss and a 5 star RB from Florida were denied entry by ND Admissions.

One of the problem with ND academics that fans frequently don't grasp is that it's not just an Admissions problem. ND is a highly competitive academic institution. The average student at ND has an SAT score of around 1350 and graduated in the top 5% of their high school class. Realistically what kind of chance does a kid with a 2.0 GPA, barely passing SAT or ACT scores, and lacking prequisites in math and english have competiting in the classroom with the equivalent of Academic All-Americans?

Many schools recognize that only 50% of their students will graduate. ND is disappointed that only 94% of their student body graduates. The point is there is no place for the "go through the motions jock" to hide academically for 4 years. Katzenmoyer would have been tossed. He would not have been able to get eligible taking Golf, Music Appreciation, and Aids Awareness entering his junior year summer. Get "A"s in those 3 courses then never attending a class as a senior. Brent Fullwood was admitted to Auburn in the mid 80's with a single digit ACT score. He never attended class as a senior yet remained eligible.

If ND lowered Admissions to get Moss, Katzenmoyer or Fullwood, they all would have been tossed out of school under Hesburgh or Malloy. ND today doesn't have the easy majors that some universities have to hide athletes. So lowering admissions isn't the answer today.

But I can't say it was always that way.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

You are always impressive BigIF.

Except for that one time that you weren't impressive. I can't remember what it was, but I thunk "that's not as impressive."

Yeah. I can be hardcore sometimes.

 

[BGIF]

You are always impressive BigIF.

Except for that one time that you weren't impressive. I can't remember what it was, but I thunk "that's not as impressive."

Yeah. I can be hardcore sometimes.

Thanks coach, I needed that.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

lol buddy. You make this site rock. Thanks for all you do.

 

[Bubba]

BGIF sleeps at a Holiday Inn Express EVERY night.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Wearing a condom in expectation. Hoping his 20 dollar bill...

 

[nlroma1o]

He would not have been able to get eligible taking Golf, Music Appreciation, and Aids Awareness entering his junior year summer.

I don't know which course is more pathetic. An Aids Awareness class or taking Ballroom Dancing. I wish I could have been able to take those classes. Instead I'm finishing up 150 credits in 4 years. (slowly putting the pistol down from my temple)

 

[notredomer23]

My answer to those of you saying to lower academic standards!

Offer everyone in the top 150. If they dont qualify academically? Go to the cemenary for a symester, and then drop out of it because you will still be a student at notre dame

Simple solution to all our problems

 

[WabashFalcon]

My answer to those of you saying to lower academic standards!
Offer everyone in the top 150. If they dont qualify academically? Go to the cemenary for a symester, and then drop out of it because you will still be a student at notre dame

Simple solution to all our problems

2 + 2 = 5.




Welcome to Notre Dame!!!!

 

[irishtrain]

lowering standards

lowering standards

Nice job BGIF, Montana's no fool he knows what he is saying is true, remember I said about a year ago(from source I will not reveal) that it was told to me 40-60% of the guys at certain SEC school couldnt get in to ND and then the odds go up because of the work load, certainly they are given good labs and tutoring but they work (across the board) harder than any of the "semi pro" football powers in the country, notice we make no big deal about academic excellance as it is a given, some places make the player who excells a huge point of reference hoping it makes the program look legit, example-Brady Quinn and a duel major-and their are alot more, you go to Notre Dame to be educated in a way that you will be of VALUE in the work place and take your shot at the NFL as a secondary issue. That"s why we love the place and respect it. Remember as I say all this and I didnt even go there.

 

[phork]

Most top talent kids are looking for the super highway to the NFL. ND is not that highway. An ND degree is as prestigous as they come, but I would hazard a guess that if some kid has NFL talent and is borderline acceptable to ND, they will go somewhere else for the ease getting in.

 

[irishtrain]

lowering standards

lowering standards

There are a lot of bright people who read this board that I would like your opinion on what I am about to say. We all hear how Notre Dame needs to come back etc and how the program has been away from football excellance. My feelings are that Notre Dame has never left and just IS. Sometimes its up sometimes its down but what this icon of sport is to me is much more than some sports talkshow host telling me we are no longer important. The Irish play in big games because of what they try to do. They are independant, educate their student athletes, make them adhere to institutional standards, and make people who leave there better. With all due respect to these other schools they just dont do that. Now when this coach is about to win and win big we will hear schedule, breaks on bowl appearances, unfair notority from TV packages, you name it. The point is- this one place is special because its different and the other guys know that, when Notre Dame gets rollin' its a train that's hard to stop. I'm looking forward to this year because I know they are going to be very good and play to a standard that all fans of Notre Dame will be proud of. The true test of Notre Dame football is just what we have gone thru these past lean years, and we still have people looking over their shoulder watching to see if Notre Dame is going to be Notre Dame. I can hear the train-- Go Irish

 

[jason_h537]

Most top talent kids are looking for the super highway to the NFL. ND is not that highway. An ND degree is as prestigous as they come, but I would hazard a guess that if some kid has NFL talent and is borderline acceptable to ND, they will go somewhere else for the ease getting in.

i dont agree with that. Notre Dame appeals to a certian type of kid. Whether he has NFL talent or not. Notre Dame has ALOT to offer, we are still in alot of these kids top 3 and 5. We CAN recruit, the last 3 years have proved it. Now we have to win

 

[phork]

i dont agree with that. Notre Dame appeals to a certian type of kid. Whether he has NFL talent or not. Notre Dame has ALOT to offer, we are still in alot of these kids top 3 and 5. We CAN recruit, the last 3 years have proved it. Now we have to win

Proved what exactly? A whole lot of borderline 4 stars mixed with a whole lot of 3 star talent. Sorry man, but if you had the choice of hitting USC, Florida or ND, had real NFL promise, a 5 star rating and borderline academics.. The odd kid, IE 1 out of 10, would choose ND, because that kid realizes an education is worth something.

And thats exactly what I have seen the last 3 years. 1 out of every 10 studs has chosen ND, and unfortunately you cannot build a dynasty running on 10%.

 

[jason_h537]

Yeah your right Phork our recruits sucks compared to USC and Florida we get nobodies. We get stuck with guys like Jimmy Clausen, Dayne Crist, Manti Te'o, Ethan Johnson, Golden Tate, Sam Young, Kyle Rudolph, Michael Floyd, Harrison Smith, Steve Filer, Zeke Motta... etc etc. with no NFL aspirations and couldn't get a scholarship to those other schools

You say 1 out of 10 studs, That leaves 9 for Texas, OSU, USC, Florida, Oklahoma, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Miami, and FSU. I don't put as much stock into individual rankings as much as class rankings. The teams that win consistantly have top 10 classes each year. So lets compare our classes during Weis's era to Florida and USC

I got my Phil Steele preview which combines many major recruiting grades
2006
Fla # 5
USC # 1
ND # 2

2007
Fla # 2
USC #1
ND # 5

2008
Fla # 5
USC # 4
ND # 1

2009
Fla # 6
USC # 3
ND # 7

Now before 06 there is a huge gap between the three schools. The difference between the three schools is the amount of talent and depth before the current coaches got there.

You can question the coaching but the talent is there to compete with anyone this year. So why should we lower our standards?

 

[WabashFalcon]

Go. Ugly. Early.

 

[notredomer23]

i still like my plan