Lou Holtz

[Cackalacky2.0]

Uh, it's not a preseason thread. It's a Lou Holtz thread. Lou went political, the thread followed.

The issue folks have now, are not his actual views. They only have a problem because he's supported Trump. If he endorsed Pence, or a "nicer" conservative, about the same policy, I don't think folks would be up in arms at all. And that is the sad thing.

Trump is not a nicer Christian like Pence. He is literally the opposite of Pence. Lou isn’t endorsing a lighter version of Pence he is endorsing a man who has never been to church, has been divorced,( also a no no in Catholicism) had multiple infidelities, oh no another no no in Catholicism, and will not deny he has had abortions for mistresses.

That is what is so gross about Lou endorsing Trump. Trump is no Catholic. Never has been and never will be. Talk about hypocrisy. This is hilarious lol. The trumpers just seem to gloss right over how opposite he is to a faith based leader they so desperately want. This is the last I say lest I start offending people. It’s laughable anyone would call Biden a CINO while praising a man who has never been anywhere near religion except for gassing people to walk to a church for a photo op. It’s fucking laughable and people somehow will still think Trump is a better Christian than Biden because he is pro choice (not pro abortion).

 

[SeekNDestroy]

By the way, guys, there are no gods. And the audacity to believe that of the over 4000 religions practiced on this planet, that YOUR religion is the one true religion is hilarious to me. Yes, I know Notre Dame is a Catholic school (I was raised Catholic and attended Catholic schools.) Other than the occasional ceremony, Notre Dame is my only connection to Catholicism.

 

[NorthDakota]

Lou rules and his contribution to Notre Dame is big league regardless of who he supports for POTUS. Anyone suggesting otherwise is just being butthurt. Dude is the only guy to win a natty at ND in the last 40-some years lol. Show him the respect he has earned.

Cack claiming Biden isn't pro-abortion is one of the more amusing things I've read lately.

 

[Irish YJ]

There is lots of life taking in the Bible YJ. Lots and you know who sanctioned it? GOD. The keeping of the commandment of no killing is violated in nearly every chapter of the OT at the behest and Duty to GOD including women and children.

The only thing people need to do is worry about themselves. Don’t have an abortion. If you truly believe your soul is on the line as opposed to all the other things good Catholics don’t do on a daily basis.... That’s all there is to it. Just don’t. The SCOTUS will never rule on when a soul would develop from two haploid gametes fusing. It will never rule on the status of humanity without medical expertise. Pro choice does not equal pro abortion. Omg

I guess we should just make murder in general legal then lol. If one says typical killing (a man walking down the street murders a guy on a whim) is evil, yet can't say the murder of a child who can live and breath without it's mother, is evil, then there's something wrong with that. It defies logic. If one can't admit that a 8 or 9 month old child that can live outside of the womb, is a life, that too defies logic. If murdering a pregnant woman can get you charged with murder of the child, but a mother can choose to do the same at any point including month 9, that defies logic.

Can you not see the problem or logic failure with any of that?

The terminology "pro-choice" is simply an effort to support something, while at the same time providing deniability. It's a cop out. It's why progressive candidates refuse to answer specific questions about late term abortions, and fall back to the personal choice word salad.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I guess we should just make murder in general legal then lol. If one says typical killing (a man walking down the street murders a guy on a whim) is evil, yet can't say the murder of a child who can live and breath without it's mother, is evil, then there's something wrong with that. It defies logic. If one can't admit that a 8 or 9 month old child that can live outside of the womb, is a life, that too defies logic. If murdering a pregnant woman can get you charged with murder of the child, but a mother can choose to do the same at any point including month 9, that defies logic.

Can you not see the problem or logic failure with any of that?

The terminology "pro-choice" is simply an effort to support something, while at the same time providing deniability. It's a cop out. It's why progressive candidates refuse to answer specific questions about late term abortions, and fall back to the personal choice word salad.

Is abortion legally considered murder? Again if you think it’s murder and you don’t want to commit murder....Then don’t. Why won’t anyone respond to Lou praising Trump the non Christian as well.

 

[Irish YJ]

Trump is not a nicer Christian like Pence. He is literally the opposite of Pence. Lou isn’t endorsing a lighter version of Pence he is endorsing a man who has never been to church, has been divorced,( also a no no in Catholicism) had multiple infidelities, oh no another no no in Catholicism, and will not deny he has had abortions for mistresses.

That is what is so gross about Lou endorsing Trump. Trump is no Catholic. Never has been and never will be. Talk about hypocrisy. This is hilarious lol. The trumpers just seem to gloss right over how opposite he is to a faith based leader they so desperately want. This is the last I say lest I start offending people. It’s laughable anyone would call Biden a CINO while praising a man who has never been anywhere near religion except for gassing people to walk to a church for a photo op. It’s fucking laughable and people somehow will still think Trump is a better Christian than Biden because he is pro choice (not pro abortion).

I don't think Trump or Biden are good Christians. Most politicians are liars and in it for personal reasons. You are dwelling on personality, not policy. I said specifically I don't like Trump, but he has checked the box on pushing his policy like abortion. And from a policy perspective, that's what is important. I will never vote for personality unless policy are equal.

But you just proved my point that I made to OMM. Folks wouldn't care if Lou was endorsing the same policy of any other candidate. They just have a problem because it's Trump. I'm going to guess Lou would support anyone that he feels will push pro-life policy, and not support anyone that pushes anything that enables abortion.

 

[ClausentoTate]

If murdering a pregnant woman can get you charged with murder of the child, but a mother can choose to do the same at any point including month 9, that defies logic.

This is not a thing unless there's something fatally wrong with the baby or the mother. What a ridiculous strawman.

 

[Irish YJ]

Is abortion legally considered murder? Again if you think it’s murder and you don’t want to commit murder....Then don’t. Why won’t anyone respond to Lou praising Trump the non Christian as well.

So it's just about what is legal? Slavery was legal for a long time. Did that make it right? Slavery was in the bible too?

So simple yes or no questions. Please don't avoid or spin.

1. Is an 8th+ month old child in the womb, that can feel pain, can think, and easily survive outside of the womb on it's own, a life?

2. If a women has a baby today, and kills that child tomorrow, is that murder?

 

[TheRealLynch51]

This is not a thing unless there's something fatally wrong with the baby or the mother. What a ridiculous strawman.

Agreed. The strawman cometh.

 

[Irish YJ]

This is not a thing unless there's something fatally wrong with the baby or the mother. What a ridiculous strawman.

I love it when folks hide behind words like "strawman".

If it's not a thing, why not satisfy a whole lot of people and simply make specific laws around timing?

 

[NorthDakota]

Is abortion legally considered murder? Again if you think it’s murder and you don’t want to commit murder....Then don’t. Why won’t anyone respond to Lou praising Trump the non Christian as well.

Murder is whatever a state decides murder is. Several states would classify abortion as murder tomorrow if they could.

The general common law definition is basically "the killing of another human with malicr aforethought." At least some states have made the killing another with a "depraved heart/indifference to human life" murder as well.

Without a doubt, to a practicing Catholic, every avortion would fall under those definitions.

I eagerly await Cack's seal of approval in the strawman universe when a state adopts the rumored old North Dakota law allowing citizen's in a wagon to kill any Indian they see on horseback. After all, if you think that's murder then don't partake.

 

[TheRealLynch51]

I love it when folks hide behind words like "strawman".

If it's not a thing, why not satisfy a whole lot of people and simply make specific laws around timing?

You're right. When you running for office?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Yep late term abortions aren’t even a thing except in very extreme conditions. Totally a straw man. No one thinks that is a good thing. Biden certainly doesn’t.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

So it's just about what is legal? Slavery was legal for a long time. Did that make it right? Slavery was in the bible too?

So simple yes or no questions. Please don't avoid or spin.

1. Is an 8th+ month old child in the womb, that can feel pain, can think, and easily survive outside of the womb on it's own, a life?

2. If a women has a baby today, and kills that child tomorrow, is that murder?

Bruh... cmon.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I don't think Trump or Biden are good Christians. Most politicians are liars and in it for personal reasons. You are dwelling on personality, not policy. I said specifically I don't like Trump, but he has checked the box on pushing his policy like abortion. And from a policy perspective, that's what is important. I will never vote for personality unless policy are equal.

But you just proved my point that I made to OMM. Folks wouldn't care if Lou was endorsing the same policy of any other candidate. They just have a problem because it's Trump. I'm going to guess Lou would support anyone that he feels will push pro-life policy, and not support anyone that pushes anything that enables abortion.

Lol. Trump would pay his mistress to have abortions and make them sign NDAs. Omg

 

[NorthDakota]

Yep late term abortions aren’t even a thing except in very extreme conditions. Totally a straw man. No one thinks that is a good thing. Biden certainly doesn’t.

So if I advocate for the killing of the occasional Indian i come across on horseback, am I a good guy or not?

And yes, plenty are perfectly fine with it. Have you ever been to a pro-abortion event?

I got stuck working at one in college (my boss did not mention the abortion people in ND were the ones using our venue) so I got a front row seat from the receptionist desk exactly what these people believe. To these people, abortion was nothing to be ashamed of, and was something to be proud of.

Listening to these people talk so disgustingly about their children that they killed left me beyond shook up. "Safe, legal, rare" was wrong to begin with... what these people today advocate for is the genuinely horrific.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

So it's just about what is legal? Slavery was legal for a long time. Did that make it right? Slavery was in the bible too?

So simple yes or no questions. Please don't avoid or spin.

1. Is an 8th+ month old child in the womb, that can feel pain, can think, and easily survive outside of the womb on it's own, a life?

2. If a women has a baby today, and kills that child tomorrow, is that murder?

God said it was ok. He even gave rules on how to handle and buy slaves. Let’s not get hung up on the morality of the Bible. I am not spinning. Slavery is wrong. Fact. And abortion wasn’t mentioned in the Bible. So what. No spin. There is your answer.

The fact that people disagree on when a human life is is the biggest premise that can’t be solved. Also the premise that your deifinition if murder is a natural law is also in question. That’s why we have laws to help navigate these issues. Again if you think it’s murder then don’t do it. Not sure what the problem here is. It is that simple.

Also can you tell me how we can know a soul is in the zygote? When is that apparent? What naturalistic evidence is there other than a bald assertion.

 

[NorthDakota]

God said it was ok. He even gave rules on how to handle and buy slaves. Let’s not get hung up on the morality of the Bible. I am not spinning. Slavery is wrong. Fact. And abortion wasn’t mentioned in the Bible. So what. No spin. There is your answer.

The fact that people disagree on when a human life is is the biggest premise that can’t be solved. Also the premise that your deifinition if murder is a natural law is also in question. That’s why we have laws to help navigate these issues. Again if you think it’s murder then don’t do it. Not sure what the problem here is. It is that simple.

Alright. So if someone shoots a family member of yours, you'll passively sit by and say "no biggie." After all, that guy didn't think he murdered anyone probably.

 

[Irish YJ]

You're right. When you running for office?

LOL, I'm actually a decent politician when it comes to managing large orgs. But to be honest, the BS and compromise it takes, eats at the soul some times. I'd never make it as politician. I have family (not immediate) that were in local and state politics for decades. It's dirty stuff.

On the topic though, less than 15% (Gallup) of the population believe 3rd term abortions should be legal. 81% believe it should illegal. 65% believe 2nd term should be illegal. The only majority for legal is 1st term. So why just not make third term abortions illegal (unless for obvious medical reasons) or pick a spot during the 2nd term, and satisfy the majority of the population. The problem is that most of the pro-life and pro-choice folks won't give an inch. I'm a science and logic guy, not a good Catholic guy.

 

[Irish YJ]

Lol. Trump would pay his mistress to have abortions and make them sign NDAs. Omg

Again, I don't care about his personality or private life. I only care that nominates conservative judges. I don't care about any of Biden's personal misdeeds either.

Bruh... cmon.

Well, I'm assuming the cmon, means you'd say yes and yes. And if so, then you're in logical conflict with pro-choice. If the cmon means you don't want to answer, you're pulling a typical political avoidance move lol.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Again, I don't care about his personality or private life. I only care that nominates conservative judges. I don't care about any of Biden's personal misdeeds either.



Well, I'm assuming the cmon, means you'd say yes and yes. And if so, then you're in logical conflict with pro-choice. If the cmon means you don't want to answer, you're pulling a typical political avoidance move lol.

Sorry I responded in another post. Haha