Loose Change Documentary: What do you think?

[Irish Envy]

Has anyone else watched this? What do you think?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848

 

[irishnd31]

Could only watch the first 20 minutes or so, but that is still eerie to this day. Doesn't even seem possible that it even occurred. Sounds like the guy who did the documentery has some pretty incriminating evidence against some of our elected higher ups showing that SOMEONE knew it was coming and when.

 

[Irish Envy]

While some of his points are fruitless, some of them I find very interesting.

 

[guff]

To steal someone else line: Get me the duct tape because I think my head is going to explode.

Terrorists, without the assistance of any government agency, killed Americans because they hate us, because they seek the destruction of the US. And were not killing those bastards fast enough.

I hate conspiracy theorists. I was going to spend some time and refute this piece of crap item by item but I don't have patience to deal with the inane responses.

http://judicialwatch.org/flight77.shtml

 

[maison bleu]

I hate conspiracy theorists.

Me too. Unbelievable waste of energy, and a distraction from the real problems.

 

[Irish Envy]

To steal someone else line: Get me the duct tape because I think my head is going to explode.

Terrorists, without the assistance of any government agency, killed Americans because they hate us, because they seek the destruction of the US. And were not killing those bastards fast enough.

I hate conspiracy theorists. I was going to spend some time and refute this piece of crap item by item but I don't have patience to deal with the inane responses.

http://judicialwatch.org/flight77.shtml

I don't see a plane in any of those videos?

 

[irishnd31]

I don't see a plane in any of those videos?

Neither do I. In the 4th screen, you can pause it and see what appears to be a plane, but it looks a lot smaller than a commercial airliner. I don't know.

 

[guff]

Unfortunately the online version is lower quality. In a higher quality version the front end of a plane is clearly visible.

The bright sun also makes it hard to see. I'm Rumsfeld and Cheney had something to do with as well.

The more I watch of the video the angrier I get. This @$$wipe dedicates the little propaganda piece to the memories of the dead and then proceeds to stomp on their graves by advancing his nonsense agenda. I'd like to rip off his balls and feed them to him.

 

[Irish Envy]

Unfortunately the online version is lower quality. In a higher quality version the front end of a plane is clearly visible.

The bright sun also makes it hard to see. I'm Rumsfeld and Cheney had something to do with as well.

The more I watch of the video the angrier I get. This @$$wipe dedicates the little propaganda piece to the memories of the dead and then proceeds to stomp on their graves by advancing his nonsense agenda. I'd like to rip off his balls and feed them to him.

Yes, his agenda or dedication may be bogus, but the fact remains, there are some questions raised that continue to be ignored. When you have tons of scientific and expert testimony and questions raised, for the Government to ignore them/it, I find it very odd.

 

[guff]

Adding a little balance

Adding a little balance

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html

http://www.911myths.com/index.html

There is quite a bit of reading required some of it quite technical. If this were a FSU forum I'd found something done in crayon, but I respect the collective intelligence of this forum.

 

[guff]

And one more...

And one more...

because this really has my boxers in a knot

"The only thing they (the filmmakers) seem to have gotten right about the Sept. 11 attacks is the date when they occurred," says Debra Burlingame, whose brother was the pilot of American Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon.

"They aren't truth-tellers looking to save the world," she says. "They're con artists hoping to sucker conspiracy-theory paranoids or anti-government malcontents into shelling out their hard-earned dollars."

taken from here: USA Today (but who can believe this ulta neo conservative newspaper)

For some reason I can not suffer fools silently.

 

[Irish Envy]

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html

http://www.911myths.com/index.html

There is quite a bit of reading required some of it quite technical. If this were a FSU forum I'd found something done in crayon, but I respect the collective intelligence of this forum.

I just read through most of the first one and several of the questions were answered, but not all. I still don't understand the technical structural stuff of the WTC towers nor do I understand all of the still flip/flop accounts on what hit the Pentagon.

I find the whole incident fascinating to this day.

 

[guff]

And one more because debunking these @$$holes has now become my obession.

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html - This is a very good veiwers guide - practically line by line debunking.

 

[ShivaIrish]

from guff:

First off it's not the Bush Administrations story. I and every other person in the world watched the story unfolded in front of their eyes. And - yes perish the thought - we believe what we saw.

---First of, I must admit I haven't been able to look over much of the rebuttal sites you gave, so far. I just don't have the time yet, but I've started. But I want to point out that the last site you gave on this thread even uses the argument that eyes and ears can be mislead by the reality of what really happened (in regards to the eyewitness accounts, etc. of the towers collapsing). Additionally, if you look at the 9/11 site I gave the link for, it does not deny the planes crashing into the towers. What did you really see?--is the point of contestation for both of these sides.

I see no reason to keep an open mind when it comes to idiocy. Shutting your eyes and ears to nitwittery is actually a good thing to do.

--If someone wants to be led by the pack, or the herd with fingers in their ears and eyes shut, that is their prerogative. However, I don't know how that is condusive to getting to the truth (if possible) in situations like this. Namecalling by itself does not undermine one's argument. People need to dialogue on these issues. Otherwise we risk ending up like the "ostrich with our head in the sand". The U.S. gov't has a vast history of misleading the world and its own people. Based on that alone, I don't think any alternative theory to the "official one" is outside the bounds of legitimacy, especially in light of what some people are claiming.

I listened to the nitwits and believed for a short period that they might be on to something. I then determined through research that there theories are pure nitwittery. Continue to listen to nitwits is a waste of my time. To engage nitwits in debate is equally a waste.

And if you believe it then you are a nitwit.

--I admit, I still have more research to do. I also think most people do. I just want people for themselves to weigh the evidence and come to their own decision. Why won't the gov't even address some of these issues? If their so clear-cut, just give an explanation and move on. But that hasn't happened. Calling everybody a nitwit or traitor, or whatever, is not fair or productive.

 

[marv81s]

ShivaIrish you don't happen to be a professor at the University Of Wisconsin in Madison are you?

 

[irishfox]

I have heard that prof. speak and I found him very interesting and well prepared, I had a have a hard time buying into all of these issues he brings up. I will say the research which has been done is very good and raises a lot of questions about our government.

 

[ShivaIrish]

I have heard that prof. speak and I found him very interesting and well prepared, I had a have a hard time buying into all of these issues he brings up. I will say the research which has been done is very good and raises a lot of questions about our government.

I agree irishfox, the research is good, and even though a lot of the conclusions are hard to digest doesn't mean they should be completely ignored and labeled as quakery. As a public, the questions should be answered by the government, for ultimately, they should be accountable to us.

 

[guff]

If you believe the government played an active role in 911 (actually planned and carried out) or a passive role (knew it was going to happen and did nothing to stop it) then you have a serious problem processing information or in simpler terms - idiot.

Check my previous 475 posts - I am not one that 'namecalls' to make a point. If you are a believer in the 911 conspiracy then you are a member of the lunatic fringe. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are aware that you are member of the club. If you walk the streets thinking that gov't plotted 911 and you feel you're beliefs are accurate and in touch with the rest of society then I feel it is my duty to give you a reality check.

Are there questions surrounding that day? Yes. COULD the government had know? Yes intel gathering and sharing could have been better. SHOULD the government have known? Probably, it seems in hindsight as though all of the info was there but for a variety of reasons it was assembled. DID the government know? No there is absolutely no evidence that anyone knew anything.

I did not dismiss the 911 conspiracy theories out of hand. I listened to them, read them and study them. I then found irrefutable evidence that they as wrong as rain on your wedding day. The problem is that if you search the internet for info regarding 911 you have to shift through the nutjobs to get to the reasoned, thoughtful, and scientifically accurate info. They got the date right. Other than that they are works of fiction.

There was no controlled demo of WTC 1, 2 or 7. Commercial aircraft crashed into the Pentagon and ground in Shanksville, PA. The planes were piloted by nutjob terrorists. The were no missiles, no shoot downs, no explosives no conspiracy. Those are the facts. Facts are stubborn things that can't be changed.

I'm done with this thread because to debate a fool is to be a fool. I hope no one here is a fool, but that is entirely up to you.

 

[guff]

Sorry to back to back post but, I will add this little tidbit of information in an effort to answer one of the allegations brought forth by the lunatic fringe.

The security tapes at the Pentagon, 7 - 11 store, traffic cams and nearby hotel that showed the 757 hitting the Pentagon were immediately seized by FBI. This raises the hackles of just about every kook.

There is a very good reason for the immediate siezure. Those video tapes are evidence and as such they must be secured. When a thug robs a store the tapes are secured by police. It doesn't mean the police were involved, it means the police want to solve the crime.

Those video tapes while being evidence are the property of the hotel and 7 - 11 and will probably be offered for return when they are no longer needed.

Well the Moussaoui trial is over so what do they need them for? Appeals. Appeals and more appeals. In the event a retrial would be ordered that evidence needs to be available and releasing would damage it's integrity and the integrity of a potential jury pool.

Those tapes will probably be released to their owners at either the completion of Moussaoui's sentence, until the appeals are exhausted or his death.

The Pentagon tape was released because it was subject to a Freedom of Information request. The other tapes were also subject to the request but were not released. For whatever reason only the Pentagon tapes were ordered to be released by the judge that heard the case. Probably because they were of little evidentiary value.

 

[irishfox]

I do not believe in most of this stuff but I do find a lot of the things very interesting. I think we were attacked by Osama and his network but these theorist have done their homework and have a right to share it with the public. We haven't gotten much from our government. The only thing George did was go to war with Iraq, who had no part what-so-ever in 9/11.