Like/Hate

Irish#1

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Boomers seem to universally adore Bo Jackson. Him, Barry Sanders, and Michael Jordan. I dont think millennials have anyone like that.
I don't know about adore as much as appreciate them for what they could do on the field. Bo found success in FB and BB. Even MJ tried BB, but couldn't cut it. Bo averaged .250 and had 141 HR's in eight seasons, yet is still known primarily as a FB player. That should tell you something. Sanders numbers are amazing considering he was on losing teams and played behind some porous lines.
 

Irish#1

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In terms of being universally beloved, I would say Tiger is really the only one who comes close to that. Mainly because golf is not a team sport so there aren't built in biases. Tiger really launched golf into another stratosphere similar to what MJ did for basketball.
That credit goes to Bird and Magic.
 

IrishinTN

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Ive been to Knoxville! Awesome town. Though I was too young to enjoy the bar scene. Brother had a soccer tournament. Ill definitely have to get a ticket if/when we get a home and home with them again.
Not sure how many years ago that might have been, but if it was more than 5 they have change a LOT of the strip. Taken a lot of bars out, added high-rise student housing and more "family friendly" restaurants. still plenty of bars, just more off the beaten path. And make sure you get a sandwich at Gus's Good Times Deli. Place is an icon.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Probably easier to say that the Bird and Magic types were the gasoline and MJ was the match. 1990s bball is what made the NBA jump a notch. The Dream Team and MJ made it world wide.
 

BleedBlueGold

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I'm GenX, the main generation that actually grew up watching these guys, and I don't adore Jordan. Zero championships and only one MVP until he got fed up and started juicing. Went from skinny to strongest guard in the history of the game almost overnight and developed a dominant post game, as well as insane durability and competitiveness. And though it's not his fault, he got tons of help from refs, not only in terms of fouls, but in terms of legalized traveling and double dribbling. The NBA knew very well how to maximize their product.

What a ridiculous post from an obvious sour Pistons fan.
 

SportsingHard

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What a ridiculous post from an obvious sour Pistons fan.
Which part is ridiculous? Are you denying he's the Barry Bonds of basketball? Personally, I find it one of the strangest phenomena in American society--the collective desire to keep our heads in the sand despite overwhelming evidence in order to keep Jordan on a pedastal.

Can you name a guy who hulked out more than Jordan? Pippen sure hulked out after coming in as a beanpole. They had the same miracle trainer not shared by the rest of the team.
 

IrishSteelhead

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Which part is ridiculous? Are you denying he's the Barry Bonds of basketball? Personally, I find it one of the strangest phenomena in American society--the collective desire to keep our heads in the sand despite overwhelming evidence in order to keep Jordan on a pedastal.

Can you name a guy who hulked out more than Jordan? Pippen sure hulked out after coming in as a beanpole. They had the same miracle trainer not shared by the rest of the team.

And we find you one of the strangest phenomena on this board.

I truly find it hard to believe any of these opinions are actually your own, and instead you are just being an edgelord for reaction.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BleedBlueGold

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Which part is ridiculous? Are you denying he's the Barry Bonds of basketball? Personally, I find it one of the strangest phenomena in American society--the collective desire to keep our heads in the sand despite overwhelming evidence in order to keep Jordan on a pedastal.

Can you name a guy who hulked out more than Jordan? Pippen sure hulked out after coming in as a beanpole. They had the same miracle trainer not shared by the rest of the team.

Overwhelming evidence, huh? By all means...enlighten us.
 

Irish#1

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Which part is ridiculous? Are you denying he's the Barry Bonds of basketball? Personally, I find it one of the strangest phenomena in American society--the collective desire to keep our heads in the sand despite overwhelming evidence in order to keep Jordan on a pedastal.

Can you name a guy who hulked out more than Jordan? Pippen sure hulked out after coming in as a beanpole. They had the same miracle trainer not shared by the rest of the team.
You seem to be easily offended when someone disagrees or questions you.

I was surprised by your post, because I don't remember anything ever being reported that he juiced. Something like that would eventually leak out. Neither he never or Pippen looked hulked out to me.

To the bolded, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire and Conseco.
 

T Town Tommy

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Probably easier to say that the Bird and Magic types were the gasoline and MJ was the match. 1990s bball is what made the NBA jump a notch. The Dream Team and MJ made it world wide.
Dr J kept the NBA on life support. Bird and Magic saved the league. MJ elevated it to the next level and the Dream Team made it known worldwide. At least that’s how I remember it.
 

SportsingHard

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You seem to be easily offended when someone disagrees or questions you.

I was surprised by your post, because I don't remember anything ever being reported that he juiced. Something like that would eventually leak out. Neither he never or Pippen looked hulked out to me.

To the bolded, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire and Conseco.
While it's certainly possible for a post to be offensive, I wasn't offended in this case, and I generally do not find disagreement offensive.

I appreciate your answer, but I screwed up by editing my question poorly before posting. I was looking for NBA players, and originally guards. I deleted that after bringing Pippen into the conversation. I'm particularly interested in guards of Jordan's time or earlier. One might cite Kobe as a later guard who bulked up a lot, but he came in as a kid, and he hired Jordan's trainer.

January, 1999: A new NBA collective bargaining agreement institutes a (relatively weak and circumventable) steroid policy for the first time, to be enforced starting November, 1999.

June, 1999: Jordan retires for the second time, ending his elite era and Bulls career.

I'm wondering how many posters we have here old enough to have actually seen Jordan's full career. We've veered from the thread topic enough that I'm not inclined to post a bunch of photos illustrating Jordan's/Pippen's profound changes over time, but Google Images are there for the curious.
 
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ab2cmiller

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While it's certainly possible for a post to be offensive, I wasn't offended in this case, and I generally do not find disagreement offensive.

I appreciate your answer, but I screwed up by editing my question poorly before posting. I was looking for NBA players, and originally guards. I deleted that after bringing Pippen into the conversation. I'm particularly interested in guards of Jordan's time or earlier. One might cite Kobe as a later guard who bulked up a lot, but he came in as a kid, and he hired Jordan's trainer.

January, 1999: A new NBA collective bargaining agreement institutes a (relatively weak and circumventable) steroid policy for the first time, to be enforced starting November, 1999.

June, 1999: Jordan retires for the second time, ending his elite era and Bulls career.

I'm wondering how many 50+ year-old posters we have here--old enough to have actually seen Jordan's full career. We've veered from the thread topic enough that I'm not inclined to post a bunch of photos illustrating Jordan's/Pippen's profound changes over time, but Google Images are there for the curious.
57 here. In my entire lifetime this is the first I’ve ever heard anyone claim Jordan and Pippen were juicing.
 

BleedBlueGold

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While it's certainly possible for a post to be offensive, I wasn't offended in this case, and I generally do not find disagreement offensive.

I appreciate your answer, but I screwed up by editing my question poorly before posting. I was looking for NBA players, and originally guards. I deleted that after bringing Pippen into the conversation. I'm particularly interested in guards of Jordan's time or earlier. One might cite Kobe as a later guard who bulked up a lot, but he came in as a kid, and he hired Jordan's trainer.

January, 1999: A new NBA collective bargaining agreement institutes a (relatively weak and circumventable) steroid policy for the first time, to be enforced starting November, 1999.

June, 1999: Jordan retires for the second time, ending his elite era and Bulls career.

I'm wondering how many 50+ year-old posters we have here--old enough to have actually seen Jordan's full career. We've veered from the thread topic enough that I'm not inclined to post a bunch of photos illustrating Jordan's/Pippen's profound changes over time, but Google Images are there for the curious.

I'm overwhelmed by this evidence.
 

SportsingHard

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57 here. In my entire lifetime this is the first I’ve ever heard anyone claim Jordan and Pippen were juicing.
Yeah, to be fair, it was inappropriate for me to outright claim Jordan was juicing, though I didn't do the same for Pippen. I just believe it was likely. And yes, as I indicated previously, I find it very interesting that it's never been a serious point of speculation.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Yeah, to be fair, it was inappropriate for me to outright claim Jordan was juicing, though I didn't do the same for Pippen. I just believe it was likely. And yes, as I indicated previously, I find it very interesting that it's never been a serious point of speculation.
In a matter of hours you went from calling MJ the "Barry Bonds of basketball," saying he and Pippen "hulked out," and it was supported by an "overwhelming amount of evidence" to now saying it should just be a "serious point of speculation." Unbelievable.
 

SportsingHard

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In a matter of hours you went from calling MJ the "Barry Bonds of basketball," saying he and Pippen "hulked out," and it was supported by an "overwhelming amount of evidence" to now saying it should just be a "serious point of speculation." Unbelievable.
The hulking out is certainly not speculation. Obviously, I've never spent time around MJ and can't say for certain what substances he made use of.
 

FU BK

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While it's certainly possible for a post to be offensive, I wasn't offended in this case, and I generally do not find disagreement offensive.

I appreciate your answer, but I screwed up by editing my question poorly before posting. I was looking for NBA players, and originally guards. I deleted that after bringing Pippen into the conversation. I'm particularly interested in guards of Jordan's time or earlier. One might cite Kobe as a later guard who bulked up a lot, but he came in as a kid, and he hired Jordan's trainer.

January, 1999: A new NBA collective bargaining agreement institutes a (relatively weak and circumventable) steroid policy for the first time, to be enforced starting November, 1999.

June, 1999: Jordan retires for the second time, ending his elite era and Bulls career.

I'm wondering how many posters we have here old enough to have actually seen Jordan's full career. We've veered from the thread topic enough that I'm not inclined to post a bunch of photos illustrating Jordan's/Pippen's profound changes over time, but Google Images are there for the curious.
Im 47, caught the whole career of MJ, hell had the first pair of air Jordan's (mine were sky Jordan's cause I was in kids sizes). No way in hell was he ever juicing. Yes he got bigger over time, but who doesn't. I still work out 4-5 times a week and am a hell of alot bigger than I was in my 20s and 30s. I see no advantages to using roids to add mass for basketball, if anything it would hurt more than help with all the running and added strength messing with a guy's shot.
 

BleedBlueGold

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The hulking out is certainly not speculation. Obviously, I've never spent time around MJ and can't say for certain what substances he made use of.
You literally said he started juicing and that there was an overwhelming amount of evidence to support that claim.

Why is it shocking to you that a scrawny young athlete who took a massive ammout of beatings in the lane would want to bulk up and get stronger in order to be able to withstand said beatings? That doesn't mean they took steroids. It just means they finally took their weight programs seriously.
 

Irish#1

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Dr J kept the NBA on life support. Bird and Magic saved the league. MJ elevated it to the next level and the Dream Team made it known worldwide. At least that’s how I remember it.
Actually the ABA players who came in with the merger kept the interest up. If you look at the league stats you’ll see along with Dr J that McGinnis, Gervin, Malone, Wise and a few others were the league leaders in scoring.
 

SportsingHard

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Im 47, caught the whole career of MJ, hell had the first pair of air Jordan's (mine were sky Jordan's cause I was in kids sizes). No way in hell was he ever juicing. Yes he got bigger over time, but who doesn't. I still work out 4-5 times a week and am a hell of alot bigger than I was in my 20s and 30s. I see no advantages to using roids to add mass for basketball, if anything it would hurt more than help with all the running and added strength messing with a guy's shot.
Interesting that you were glued to Bulls games at age 7. I thought I got into pro/college sports at an early age, but not quite that early.
 

SportsingHard

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You literally said he started juicing and that there was an overwhelming amount of evidence to support that claim.

Why is it shocking to you that a scrawny young athlete who took a massive ammout of beatings in the lane would want to bulk up and get stronger in order to be able to withstand said beatings? That doesn't mean they took steroids. It just means they finally took their weight programs seriously.
That's what they call in the logic business both a loaded question and a strawman.

Why did you decide to stop beating your wife?
 

FU BK

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Interesting that you were glued to Bulls games at age 7. I thought I got into pro/college sports at an early age, but not quite that early.
Sure im not the first person that watched sports as a young kid. Every Bulls game was on WGN and my grandpa was a college basketball fan and couldn't wait to see how Jordan did in the pros. Not like we had anything worth a shit to watch or cheer for in Indiana except Notre Dame on Saturday and the Bears on Sunday. Dont worry, I still remember the 85 Bears too
 

SportsingHard

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Sure im not the first person that watched sports as a young kid. Every Bulls game was on WGN and my grandpa was a college basketball fan and couldn't wait to see how Jordan did in the pros. Not like we had anything worth a shit to watch or cheer for in Indiana except Notre Dame on Saturday and the Bears on Sunday. Dont worry, I still remember the 85 Bears too
My knowledge of Bears/NFL players from 1985 (when I was 10) is about 20 times greater than my knowledge of NFL teams/players today. Pretty sure I could name all 85 Bears starters off the top of my head, including kicker, punter, and kick returner, and tell you where most of them went to school. Could name a number of back-ups, too, along with school attended.
 

Punky

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Actually the ABA players who came in with the merger kept the interest up. If you look at the league stats you’ll see along with Dr J that McGinnis, Gervin, Malone, Wise and a few others were the league leaders in scoring.
George Gervin was up there with Dr J in my book. Remember that Nike commercial? "I do know how to finger roll". Not enough O's in smooth for the Iceman.
Remember, Jordan came into the league he was only 21. He was 5'11 as a HS freshman, so he was still growing and filling out his early years in the league.
EDIT: Found the commercial
 

SportsingHard

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George Gervin was up there with Dr J in my book. Remember that Nike commercial? "I do know how to finger roll". Not enough O's in smooth for the Iceman.
Remember, Jordan came into the league he was only 21. He was 5'11 as a HS freshman, so he was still growing and filling out his early years in the league.
EDIT: Found the commercial

By the time Jordan was a freshman at UNC, he was listed at a full-grown 6-6, so I'm not sure how relevant his size at age 14 is. Gervin was fairly washed up by the time I saw him, but I know he was an incredible scorer not long before. Magic Johnson had the benefit of playing the elder Gervin before graduating high school and reportedly learned a lot from him.
 

Irish#1

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My knowledge of Bears/NFL players from 1985 (when I was 10) is about 20 times greater than my knowledge of NFL teams/players today. Pretty sure I could name all 85 Bears starters off the top of my head, including kicker, punter, and kick returner, and tell you where most of them went to school. Could name a number of back-ups, too, along with school attended.
61 Yankees
C- Berra / Howard
1st - Skowron / Pepitone
2nd - Richardson
SS - Kubek
3rd - Boyer
LF - Tresh / Berra
CF - Mantle
RF - Maris
P - Ford

I was 8
 

SportsingHard

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61 Yankees
C- Berra / Howard
1st - Skowron / Pepitone
2nd - Richardson
SS - Kubek
3rd - Boyer
LF - Tresh / Berra
CF - Mantle
RF - Maris
P - Ford

I was 8
Wow. My math is rusty, but I'm pretty sure that makes you 142 years old.
 
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