Keep Charlie.

NDinL.A.

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sad as that sounds it is the truth, the new coach has to understand the power of EMOTION

I'd say that you need to understand the power of paragraphs and periods! Just kidding, but that was a tough read. CW deserves and will get another year, where many of his best recruits will be juniors and sophs. I'm excited about next year (we have some studs coming in again), but at the same time I understand why CW is taking heat. But I believe in him, and hopefully he'll prove his backers correct. Welcome aboard...
 

Junkhead

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I've taken a few days to THINK about what I am about to say, I am not an alum but my love for the Irish is as deep as it could be without once being a student there, here are my thoughts from a person who once was an athlete ( major league baseball ) on emotion and the status of Notre Dame Football, as weak as it sounded to me when the coach of BC can get his guys up for ND by merely asking the question "How many of you guys were recruited by Notre Dame" we must change something right now, intelligence, savy, football talent are all a given at this point in a college football players career, emotion is not, we are SOFT, and thats a direct result of how they are coached, Charlie is a stud, he has shown them how to perform with pain--he's doing it, he is a great coach who cares and would do anything to restore this program, his recruiting has shown that, but he is not the Head Coach that they need, if all his work cant produce a better effort than last week against BC then he is not the man for the job, if he cant explain to these guys that they are the GATE KEEPERS of this proud school and get them to play accordingly then he is not the man for the job, like all of us I wanted him to succeed but its been too long since they played like NOTRE DAME is supposed to play, if you dissagrre with this I understand but when I watched ALA/LSU this past weekend you could see the hitting and effort on both sides of the field, those boys were sold out to win, we are not, Ara, Lou, got that part done and even if we dont match records or talent with the elite of college football these days we must match emotion, when my QB gets his nose rubbed in the dirt after an intercection and is taken out by HIS coach for a play to correct him and we do nothing it shows these guys just dont get it and thats a reflection of the coach, in the past that guy would have paid with a mouthful of Irish football, I will say it again we are soft, and when you are soft you shrink back into your own shell instead of stepping up to the challenge, the culture must change and as much as I wanted Charlie to succeed its time to change, all this rhetoric about loosing a top flight 09 class is crap, its been done with less before and is being done with less today in LUBBOCK, UTAH, BOISE STATE, of course in todays college game things are much different than past decades, thats the point, it has been decades since NOTRE DAME has been a bust you in the mouth program, the motor of a football team is its emotion and the guys up front, we do not have that and all the 4/5 star skilled players in the world wont fill that void, its time for a leader who understands that instead of just x's and o's, Charlie is to be admired for all he has tried to do and what he has accomplished, the first two years with the BCS money we got he practically paid for his contract so in that sense he has done his job, my hat is off to this guy, but he has to go, the football program has become irrelavant, sad as that sounds it is the truth, the new coach has to understand the power of EMOTION

Some good points in there. It's really tough to read as one gigantic sentence though!
 
S

SteveM

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Someone Knocked Out the Northern Lights!

Someone Knocked Out the Northern Lights!

ND is going through a major transition from Ty recruiting to CW recruiting. This team is super young.

I don't even count his first two years... it's almost unfortunate we did so well because again... he's paying the price for that success now... when we knew it would be coming because of the lack of senior talent.

Even Holtz went through that transition period when he got here... 5-6 and 8-4 before exploding. We'll finish 7-5 this year... and next year is when CW starts earning his money. I predict we'll be top 10 next year once again. The glory days are just around the corner!

CW.... I got your back brotha!

IC

You must have been blinded by a Canadian Sunset or befogged by Canadian Mist. It's Charlie's 4th year! And how "super young" can any team be if the total player life cycle is 5 years max?

And back to trajectory. The idea is to get better every year. Ara did. Lou did. Charlie is going backwards. We're waving at ND's history through a rear view mirror.

And to you Corwin Brown guys, nothing against him. But ND needs a guy who has won as a head coach. I think NDOM has a suggestion based on an OCD induced epiphany.

SteveM
 

NeuteredDoomer

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I've taken a few days to THINK about what I am about to say, I am not an alum but my love for the Irish is as deep as it could be without once being a student there, here are my thoughts from a person who once was an athlete ( major league baseball ) on emotion and the status of Notre Dame Football, as weak as it sounded to me when the coach of BC can get his guys up for ND by merely asking the question "How many of you guys were recruited by Notre Dame" we must change something right now, intelligence, savy, football talent are all a given at this point in a college football players career, emotion is not, we are SOFT, and thats a direct result of how they are coached, Charlie is a stud, he has shown them how to perform with pain--he's doing it, he is a great coach who cares and would do anything to restore this program, his recruiting has shown that, but he is not the Head Coach that they need, if all his work cant produce a better effort than last week against BC then he is not the man for the job, if he cant explain to these guys that they are the GATE KEEPERS of this proud school and get them to play accordingly then he is not the man for the job, like all of us I wanted him to succeed but its been too long since they played like NOTRE DAME is supposed to play, if you dissagrre with this I understand but when I watched ALA/LSU this past weekend you could see the hitting and effort on both sides of the field, those boys were sold out to win, we are not, Ara, Lou, got that part done and even if we dont match records or talent with the elite of college football these days we must match emotion, when my QB gets his nose rubbed in the dirt after an intercection and is taken out by HIS coach for a play to correct him and we do nothing it shows these guys just dont get it and thats a reflection of the coach, in the past that guy would have paid with a mouthful of Irish football, I will say it again we are soft, and when you are soft you shrink back into your own shell instead of stepping up to the challenge, the culture must change and as much as I wanted Charlie to succeed its time to change, all this rhetoric about loosing a top flight 09 class is crap, its been done with less before and is being done with less today in LUBBOCK, UTAH, BOISE STATE, of course in todays college game things are much different than past decades, thats the point, it has been decades since NOTRE DAME has been a bust you in the mouth program, the motor of a football team is its emotion and the guys up front, we do not have that and all the 4/5 star skilled players in the world wont fill that void, its time for a leader who understands that instead of just x's and o's, Charlie is to be admired for all he has tried to do and what he has accomplished, the first two years with the BCS money we got he practically paid for his contract so in that sense he has done his job, my hat is off to this guy, but he has to go, the football program has become irrelavant, sad as that sounds it is the truth, the new coach has to understand the power of EMOTION

Great post dude.
 
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NeuteredDoomer

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...And back to trajectory... The idea is to get better every year. . I think NDOM has a suggestion based on an OCD induced epiphany.

SteveM

I see your point as far as each individual season goes. Teams of late seem to get weaker as season progresses. As far as long term though, current team (to include support system - i.e Admin) seems to be showing promise.

OCD induced epiphany? Freegin lol.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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Weis needs to be graded at the end of season 5. Next year he will be facing 4 full years of his recruits.

In my opinion he needs to win 9 or more next year to be considered a success and to keep his job.
 

phgreek

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For now...Keep

For now...Keep

I've taken a few days to THINK about what I am about to say, I am not an alum but my love for the Irish is as deep as it could be without once being a student there, here are my thoughts from a person who once was an athlete ( major league baseball ) on emotion and the status of Notre Dame Football, as weak as it sounded to me when the coach of BC can get his guys up for ND by merely asking the question "How many of you guys were recruited by Notre Dame" we must change something right now, intelligence, savy, football talent are all a given at this point in a college football players career, emotion is not, we are SOFT, and thats a direct result of how they are coached, Charlie is a stud, he has shown them how to perform with pain--he's doing it, he is a great coach who cares and would do anything to restore this program, his recruiting has shown that, but he is not the Head Coach that they need, if all his work cant produce a better effort than last week against BC then he is not the man for the job, if he cant explain to these guys that they are the GATE KEEPERS of this proud school and get them to play accordingly then he is not the man for the job, like all of us I wanted him to succeed but its been too long since they played like NOTRE DAME is supposed to play, if you dissagrre with this I understand but when I watched ALA/LSU this past weekend you could see the hitting and effort on both sides of the field, those boys were sold out to win, we are not, Ara, Lou, got that part done and even if we dont match records or talent with the elite of college football these days we must match emotion, when my QB gets his nose rubbed in the dirt after an intercection and is taken out by HIS coach for a play to correct him and we do nothing it shows these guys just dont get it and thats a reflection of the coach, in the past that guy would have paid with a mouthful of Irish football, I will say it again we are soft, and when you are soft you shrink back into your own shell instead of stepping up to the challenge, the culture must change and as much as I wanted Charlie to succeed its time to change, all this rhetoric about loosing a top flight 09 class is crap, its been done with less before and is being done with less today in LUBBOCK, UTAH, BOISE STATE, of course in todays college game things are much different than past decades, thats the point, it has been decades since NOTRE DAME has been a bust you in the mouth program, the motor of a football team is its emotion and the guys up front, we do not have that and all the 4/5 star skilled players in the world wont fill that void, its time for a leader who understands that instead of just x's and o's, Charlie is to be admired for all he has tried to do and what he has accomplished, the first two years with the BCS money we got he practically paid for his contract so in that sense he has done his job, my hat is off to this guy, but he has to go, the football program has become irrelavant, sad as that sounds it is the truth, the new coach has to understand the power of EMOTION

Yea...what he said...Now ya got me going again...

seriously...the only thing i differ on is Charlie leaving...I am not convinced he is incapable of stirring some emotion...although, I'm not holding my breath because the odds look bad if history is an indicator. I'm hoping against hope he's been restraining himself, or these guys will catch the vision all of the sudden, and just snap.

This team is the '08 "Irish"... I'd like to leave '08 with the "Fightin'" part back. And yes, I too think this soft culture is on Charlie...but, I'm a little tired of hearing how young these guys are...15 year olds understand there are games you just refuse to lose lest you muck up tradition, and have to deal with that... IS IT ALL THAT DIFFERENT?

Would love to have the talent Charlie continues to drag in, and get the results...I'm already tired of Colin Cow-Turd calling South Bend the Football equivalent of the bermuda triangle...talent enters, never to be seen again... (He is funny...but he seems a little too Mayish on this...too much satisfaction in his voice...plus he's a verbal masturbationist...he'll just keep sayin' it because it entertains him).

Also agree there are folks out there doing it with less...I see Mountain West teams all the time...Bronco Mendenhall is pretty freakin' Stoic...but his players Sell Out every second of every game...they play every game like they have something to prove...they protect their tradition with ferocity...you'd think BYU had a tradition of Heisman trophies and national championships...lately Utah is right there with them...they flat out smack people in the mouth.

And before anyone starts on the Mountain West...yea i know, its about like the big east, and Utah and BYU are ranked way too high...I agree. But how bad is it when we could lose to any/all of BYU, UTAH, TCU...and throw in Boise Sate as a maybe. I won't do the SDSU comparisons...you all can look it up, and take it for what its worth.

One more time for emphasis...So what I think I just said, hypothetically speaking, is we might well have finished in the middle of the Mountain West Conference...go ahead explain that away...Youth, new defense, whatever. But imagine verbalizing your thoughtful explanation surrounded by Stamms, Stonebreaker, Zorich, lyght, Bolcar, Denson, Taylor, Brown, Ismail, Mcdougal, Bleier, Montana, Bettis, Brooks...hell Rudy for that matter...add to the list on your own...You tell me what look they might have on their faces as you explain "middle of the road in the mountain west". I believe there are some folks Notre Dame ought to be able to punch in the mouth perenially...We are bigger, stronger, smarter, and/or faster, and have a far greater tradition to ferociously defend...I think something along those lines is what you'd get from the crowd above...no excuses.

...on to the non-hypothetical...we got smacked around by BC (AGAIN!)...no pride...no understanding of the tradition, no anger....NO EMOTION....No Excuses. If you think this loss was the refs, or schematic...man I saw a differnt game than you did.

Again, I believe there are some folks Notre Dame ought to be able to punch in the mouth perenially...I'd like to think thats BC and Sparty....hate to have to use Duke, SDSU, Navy, and Air Force as our Benchmark...but BC and Sparty will continue to give us fits if we don't start playing with some anger and emotion...and it needs to be part of the culture, not just a 180 lb special teams guy here, and a linebacker there. Making it a culture starts with a coach, and his vision being sold to the players.

Just for reference...Tony Rice's tiny little butt was one of the first to throw a punch in the Miami Brawl of 88...then he turned around and torched 'em. The guy knew what he was playing for...he bought in, sold himself out...whatever you call it, he was absolutley fearless, and would not tolerate disrespect of his program...Lou did that with Tony, and that entire team, and most of the teams that followed...thats selling the vision, and in turn getting everything out of your players...thats doin a Lou. We don't need to do brawls...but we need that vision and buy-in/commitment. If CW can't do a Lou, then he better hire his ass, or find some assistants that can do Lous.

Ask yourself how often you see these from our guys:

a Pancake Block (I'll even settle for two guys putting their assignment 4 yards off the ball)
a de-cleater hit (will settle for a helmet ejection)
a running back flatten a D back en route to the end zone
an opposing defender of any kind getting KO'd
an opposing QB, WR, RB getting KO'd
an opposing premier (or mediocre for that matter) running back get shut down (<100 yards)
an opposing premier (or mediocre for that matter) wide receiver get shut down (<100 yards)
No opposing pass plays over 30 yards
No opposing running plays over 15 yards
a running play over 20 yards
Running back over 100 yards
no Sacks allowed
a blocked kick of any kind
a kick of any kind returned deep into opposing territory
forced turnover
...others


...how many times did we do 3 of these in a single game...these are core Football performance goals...but also most are indicators of buy-in as these are effort/determination driven as much as talent...Anello is the best example I have of buy-in...he has a limited role, but we are getting every ounce God gave him...buy-in brings a fearlessness and ferocity to your game...90% of the team SHOULD be just like him. Are they? who else but Charlie can fix it?
 

Sureal

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Holy run-on sentence GAirish!!!


Welcome aboard!!! ;)
 

GO IRISH!!!

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I'd say that you need to understand the power of paragraphs and periods!

"Periods? We don't need no stinking periods!" Actually, just read it like a piece of free form prose. When you do that, the entry has a very Whitman-esque feel to it.
 

KamaraPolice

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I think as fans we should be content with two wins, and showing up against USC and it not getting too ugly.
Next year is the do or die year, not in '08. This crap of not supporting CW is way premature.

Beat Navy and Syracuse and win a bowl game. That's 8 wins. How is that not acceptable considering that 80% of the offensive output is from guys that are 1 and 2 years removed from high school.

Defense is looking good, Corwin has done a fantastic job with the secondary since he got here.

Two areas that need improvement - 1) Defense tackling, especially the secondary coming up in run support (predominantly DB's). Linebackers need to tackle better as well. 2) Offensive line. No excuse for not being able to run, it's embarrassing.

Of course Jimmy Clausen needs to progress accordingly; if he can make the jump BQ did from Sophomore to Junior year, he's going to be outstanding next season.
 
G

gairish

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keep Charlie

keep Charlie

Thanks for understanding on my paragraph set up, I'll do better, by the way defending the option against Navy is all EMOTION, this game will tell all we need to know,
 

Sureal

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Thanks for understanding on my paragraph set up, I'll do better. By the way defending the option against Navy is all EMOTION, this game will tell all we need to know.

Absolutely. They now have the world against them. I expect them to be pissed off and ready to knock some heads in...
 

phgreek

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I've taken a few days to THINK about what I am about to say, I am not an alum but my love for the Irish is as deep as it could be without once being a student there, here are my thoughts from a person who once was an athlete ( major league baseball ) on emotion and the status of Notre Dame Football, as weak as it sounded to me when the coach of BC can get his guys up for ND by merely asking the question "How many of you guys were recruited by Notre Dame" we must change something right now, intelligence, savy, football talent are all a given at this point in a college football players career, emotion is not, we are SOFT, and thats a direct result of how they are coached, Charlie is a stud, he has shown them how to perform with pain--he's doing it, he is a great coach who cares and would do anything to restore this program, his recruiting has shown that, but he is not the Head Coach that they need, if all his work cant produce a better effort than last week against BC then he is not the man for the job, if he cant explain to these guys that they are the GATE KEEPERS of this proud school and get them to play accordingly then he is not the man for the job, like all of us I wanted him to succeed but its been too long since they played like NOTRE DAME is supposed to play, if you dissagrre with this I understand but when I watched ALA/LSU this past weekend you could see the hitting and effort on both sides of the field, those boys were sold out to win, we are not, Ara, Lou, got that part done and even if we dont match records or talent with the elite of college football these days we must match emotion, when my QB gets his nose rubbed in the dirt after an intercection and is taken out by HIS coach for a play to correct him and we do nothing it shows these guys just dont get it and thats a reflection of the coach, in the past that guy would have paid with a mouthful of Irish football, I will say it again we are soft, and when you are soft you shrink back into your own shell instead of stepping up to the challenge, the culture must change and as much as I wanted Charlie to succeed its time to change, all this rhetoric about loosing a top flight 09 class is crap, its been done with less before and is being done with less today in LUBBOCK, UTAH, BOISE STATE, of course in todays college game things are much different than past decades, thats the point, it has been decades since NOTRE DAME has been a bust you in the mouth program, the motor of a football team is its emotion and the guys up front, we do not have that and all the 4/5 star skilled players in the world wont fill that void, its time for a leader who understands that instead of just x's and o's, Charlie is to be admired for all he has tried to do and what he has accomplished, the first two years with the BCS money we got he practically paid for his contract so in that sense he has done his job, my hat is off to this guy, but he has to go, the football program has become irrelavant, sad as that sounds it is the truth, the new coach has to understand the power of EMOTION

Great post...I jumped on the bandwagon (kinda)last night, and spun into a rant of my own...but it didn't survive "moderation" I guess. Anyway, not convinced Charlie can't push the buttons, but he needs to deal with the "SOFT" issue and pronto.
 

onenybrother

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This game doesn't change the fact that Charlie is the right one for the job. The kids panic late, but they will learn from this experience also. Good win team.


Let's Go Dame!!!!
 
F

fishbain19

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That was an impressive, dominating performance against Navy. Give Charlie Cheeseburger a raise!!!
 

NDsuperfan09

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When is he going to learn, you have to keep your foot on the gas for 60 minutes. I'm tired of watching this undisciplined group line up every week. Penalties, turnovers, stupid mistakes, and just awful play. That stems from coaching as much as it does the players themselves.
 
G

gairish

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keep charlie

keep charlie

With all due respect to the fine people who want to see this program get back on track this game shows what needs to be said. I still take my hat off to Charlie for his efforts and I still say he is a stud. You cannot say this team is well coached after that finish. They had a chance to knock the sass out of Navy and go ahead 34-7, instead they screwed around and let the Big East refs and Navy make a game out of it. This should not have been close at the end and instead of winning in a respectful way we should have kicked their butts. This is so similar to how the team played under Faust that its silly. The talent on the field is really there and like the change that took place after Faust we need someone who can get thru to the players or move on. There is too much going against this coaching staff from media, attitude of officials during the game, and the players after all this time not knowing how to finish. Charlie is a good man and all in for his alma mater but a change is needed, he has done his job in recruiting and trying to instill a sense of pride in Notre Dame Football but sadly has come up short. I wanted him to succeed as he is Notre Dame but in 2 weeks when there is no reason to even watch the second half of the USC game many more people will start to feel the same way. They have come as far as the fine recruiting can take them-its coaching from here on out
 

tko

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this thread should be renamed to Keep Charlie for one more year!
 

NDFLA

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So if we keep him for one more year and we battle for the NC where do we go from there?
 

WaveDomer

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So if we keep him for one more year and we battle for the NC where do we go from there?

Seriously, if you watch the top teams in college football, even if you watch teams like Boise State, it is clear that ND has a ways to go. Hopefully I'm wrong, but ND is a long way away from challenging for a NC at this point.
 

NDFLA

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Seriously, if you watch the top teams in college football, even if you watch teams like Boise State, it is clear that ND has a ways to go. Hopefully I'm wrong, but ND is a long way away from challenging for a NC at this point.

I agree, but everyone wants his head right now, including me. What if he does compete for the NC next year, is he the man again?
 
F

fishbain19

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ND will not challenge for an NC under Weis and the rest of this coaching staff.
 

NDFLA

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So no matter what Charlie does from this point on, he can not redeem himself. He sucks and will always suck in your eyes.
 

WaveDomer

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I agree, but everyone wants his head right now, including me. What if he does compete for the NC next year, is he the man again?

If that happens he will be the man again. Fans are fickle. Take a look at this board a few months ago and then today. I'm not saying being fickle is a bad thing. It's just reality. I've been a backer of Weis for a long time and now I'm starting think he may not have what it takes. I really hope he does and I am rooting for him every week, but ND should not be worrying about teams like Navy, SDSU, Stanford, and Syracuse. If he does challenge for a NC next year, it means he has takent the talent and molded it into what it should be. That means he's done his job. That would be a great thing if it happened and I hope it does. I don't see ND getting rid of him at any point soon, honestly. It also worries me to get rid of him because I think the coaching carousel is very destructive to a program. But losing is destructive too, so what the hell?
 

ARALOU

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I agree, but everyone wants his head right now, including me. What if he does compete for the NC next year, is he the man again?

What if he (and the team) compete for a NC next year. Or better yet win it. Lets just say he competes and then proceeds to get verbals from every football stud in the country that they ask. What then? I say keep him and lets see if it turns the corner. I am as skeptical as anyone but my reasons have to do with motivation and letting up. He can correct that. Just turn them loose!
 

NDFLA

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If that happens he will be the man again. Fans are fickle. Take a look at this board a few months ago and then today. I'm not saying being fickle is a bad thing. It's just reality. I've been a backer of Weis for a long time and now I'm starting think he may not have what it takes. I really hope he does and I am rooting for him every week, but ND should not be worrying about teams like Navy, SDSU, Stanford, and Syracuse. If he does challenge for a NC next year, it means he has takent the talent and molded it into what it should be. That means he's done his job. That would be a great thing if it happened and I hope it does. I don't see ND getting rid of him at any point soon, honestly. It also worries me to get rid of him because I think the coaching carousel is very destructive to a program. But losing is destructive too, so what the hell?

Exactly, I am not happy with him at all right now either, but I wanted someone to admit that they will jump on and off the wagon with how he performs next year. Thanks WaveDomer for your honesty.
 
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