Is Notre Dame soft?

[TheChosen1]

Yeah they played so hard when the LVille RBs were running through arm tackles!

Played hard--not good.

 

[Crazy Balki]

That was the most pathetic display of tackling I've seen from ND, INCLUDING the Weis years. It's gotten that bad.

 

[irishtrain]

I posted this in the GameDay thread and will ask it here?

Is Notre Dame soft?

Do we have an intimidating player on the roster?

Guys I looked at all the subject matter tonight after the game and decided to post on this one. I do not see 'soft', I saw a team today that played about as hard physically as you can. Mentally they may be soft right now after all that has happened this year. One thing is for certain they will get smoked by southern cal and I think next year is going to be affected. Man this Irish fan is just gutted right now. I need picked up. I saw a defense that had no answer and was really sub par. Van Gorder is a good coach they just don't have any players left. They look worn out.

 

[BMT]

For playing mostly freshman and sophs they did ok. Not playing Max and Shumate is a whole different story.

 

[Irish2155]

Is ND soft?

Yes.

 

[philipm31]

Hard to argue we're not soft. But also pretty young.

I think Nyles/Smith/Redfield/Tranquill/Hayes/KVR will provide some energy next year and we'll look completely different.

Assuming they all come back and improve. Which is debatable on the second part.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Louisville's RB took it to ND's D in the 2nd half. He ran aggressively & ND tackled passively. Not only was he embarrassing our D w/ all the missed tackles, he was actually inflicting pain. It was embarrassing.

 

[Bluto]

I've had it with the "it was embarrassing" crap. The kids on d played hard tonight and did as good as they could all things considered. That's all you can ask for. If that embarrasses you then get on your bike and hit the road. Justin Utupo in particular deserves a standing fucking ovation for sticking it out for five years to entertain some you buffoons and for playing his ass off and coming up with some big plays when his number finally got called.

 

[BobD]

Thread title reminded me of this thread from a few years ago.

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/notre-dame-football/72606-allen-pinket-nd-needs-criminals.html

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I've had it with the "it was embarrassing" crap. The kids on d played hard tonight and did as good as they could all things considered. That's all you can ask for. If that embarrasses you then get on your bike and hit the road. Justin Utopo in particular deserves a standing fucking ovation for sticking it out for five years to entertain some you buffoons and for playing his ass of and coming up with some big plays when his number finally got called.

Get off your high horse. The condescension is tiresome. Did you watch the game? Do you approve of the myriad of missed tackles? They looked like an FCS school today. Yes, this team has been ravaged by suspensions & injuries but that's not the sole reason for all the missed tackles.

Yes, the kids played hard. Yes, they were good enough to not allow the game to get out of hand. But I'm confident even the coaches & players would agree the missed tackles was inexcusable. If you're that sensitive, you should "get on your bike and hit the road".

 

[Bluto]

Get off your high horse. The condescension is tiresome. Did you watch the game? Do you approve of the myriad of missed tackles? They looked like an FCS school today. Yes, this team has been ravaged by suspensions & injuries but that's not the sole reason for all the missed tackles.

Yes, the kids played hard. Yes, they were good enough to not allow the game to get out of hand. But I'm confident even the coaches & players would agree the missed tackles was inexcusable. If you're that sensitive, you should "get on your bike and hit the road".

Looked like an FCS school? That's about the stupidest thing you've posted and that's saying a lot. Lol. Watch your average Big 12 game and you'll see worse defensive efforts in damn near every game.

 

[stlnd01]

I've had it with the "it was embarrassing" crap. The kids on d played hard tonight and did as good as they could all things considered. That's all you can ask for. If that embarrasses you then get on your bike and hit the road. Justin Utopo in particular deserves a standing fucking ovation for sticking it out for five years to entertain some you buffoons and for playing his ass off and coming up with some big plays when his number finally got called.

It was nothing to be embarrassed about.
They played hard. Mostly young guys and beat-up old guys like Collinsworth. They certainly missed some tackles, but guys like Utupo and Martini and Devin Butler stepped up pretty big today. And had we connected on a TD at the end or even made a simple field goal to force OT and come back and won against a pretty good Louisville team, it would've been thanks to them.
The result stinks. But there's no shame in the way we played today.

 

[AgentJ]

I've had this argument with a few people over the recent weeks.

Notre Dame breeds softness. At this point, we need to accept it. We are recruiting the same kids as the SEC, as USC, as Florida State, etc. but when they come to ND, they turn soft.

And I don't mean the Allen Pinkett version of hard. I don't want arrests off the field and problems like that (although, that is happening yearly anyway).

Our teams are so soft we can't even hold for field goals. One of the most taken for granted aspects of the game, we cannot complete because our team has NO HEAD. We always fall back on the same thing... "Yeah, but we are ND! I love these guys! They are my brothers! Number 1 graduation rate!"

Well, frankly, that's great. That's why you come to ND over other schools. But that is a stupid thing to fall back on after you lose week after week. Congrats about all that, but Saturdays are about winning football games. And nobody has the head to go out there and do whatever it takes to win.

I've come to accept it at this point, however. ND is a special school and the football tradition is a part of that. But that's all it is anymore, tradition. We will still compete. After all, each and every game, whether against FSU or Navy, comes down to the 4th quarter, but you have to come to terms with the fact that ND is and always will be soft.

ND hasn't been mean since Holtz. Can you name one hard player since Bob Davie's recruits? I can think of Golden Tate. Dude had a mean streak and kept us in every game in 2009. Other than him? I got nobody. Maybe Shark?? But he was a little too much of a pretty-boy.

This is the reason most of our guys fail in the NFL too. Lots of ND busts, because they're so soft.

 

[Irish#1]

Not exactly the discussion I want to engage in on game day. But I would like to see our o-line develop more of a "mean streak"...taking their blocks to the whistle and an occasional pancake. I'd like to see Day and Jaylon smacking a few heads and leading between plays. Lastly, I'd like to see the tackling we had in the first four games vs the last four game. GO IRISH!

That's the problem when you run a spread offense and don'r run from under center. Typically teams that are run first have that mental toughness for running the ball. When you're running out of the spread it's more like fine finesse blocking. I've said it a million times on this board. Go back and look at the last three years when we go under center. We ran with authority.

I agree, Nyles and Tranquill looks to be very physical. Don't forget our WR's are pretty physical too since downfield blocking has been above average. But our Oline is Charmin soft. Dline can hold its own when healthy but not very intimidating. Farley looks to be pretty physical but sometimes he just doesn't get there or is out of position.

Nyles and Tranquill are not afraid to go in and make contact, but they're young and don't have the strength yet to be what I call "physical". Same for our young guys on the line.

 

[NCND]

I've had this argument with a few people over the recent weeks.

Notre Dame breeds softness. At this point, we need to accept it. We are recruiting the same kids as the SEC, as USC, as Florida State, etc. but when they come to ND, they turn soft.

And I don't mean the Allen Pinkett version of hard. I don't want arrests off the field and problems like that (although, that is happening yearly anyway).

Our teams are so soft we can't even hold for field goals. One of the most taken for granted aspects of the game, we cannot complete because our team has NO HEAD. We always fall back on the same thing... "Yeah, but we are ND! I love these guys! They are my brothers! Number 1 graduation rate!"

Well, frankly, that's great. That's why you come to ND over other schools. But that is a stupid thing to fall back on after you lose week after week. Congrats about all that, but Saturdays are about winning football games. And nobody has the head to go out there and do whatever it takes to win.

I've come to accept it at this point, however. ND is a special school and the football tradition is a part of that. But that's all it is anymore, tradition. We will still compete. After all, each and every game, whether against FSU or Navy, comes down to the 4th quarter, but you have to come to terms with the fact that ND is and always will be soft.

ND hasn't been mean since Holtz. Can you name one hard player since Bob Davie's recruits? I can think of Golden Tate. Dude had a mean streak and kept us in every game in 2009. Other than him? I got nobody. Maybe Shark?? But he was a little too much of a pretty-boy.

This is the reason most of our guys fail in the NFL too. Lots of ND busts, because they're so soft.

This sucks but I tend to agree. The amount of passion seen in other games compared to ND games is unbelievable to me.

 

[Wild Bill]

That's the problem when you run a spread offense and don'r run from under center. Typically teams that are run first have that mental toughness for running the ball. When you're running out of the spread it's more like fine finesse blocking. I've said it a million times on this board. Go back and look at the last three years when we go under center. We ran with authority.

The spread doesn't stop them from finishing blocks, playing through the whistle or laying people out when they have the opportunity.

Toughness does not require a qb under center or a three yards and a cloud of dust offense. It only requires tough players playing under coaches that emphasize toughness.

Toughness on a football team starts in the trenches and we don't have it on the offensive side of the ball. I hope the young guys smell blood and push the starters for playing time next year. Harry needs to stress toughness as well as technique. Just one man's opinion.

 

[Nick Setta]

No we aren't soft at all mentally, we always play to the final whistle its that we are soft physically since we can't tackle or play big boy football anymore

 

[kmoose]

ND hasn't been mean since Holtz. Can you name one hard player since Bob Davie's recruits? I can think of Golden Tate. Dude had a mean streak and kept us in every game in 2009. Other than him? I got nobody. Maybe Shark?? But he was a little too much of a pretty-boy.

Stephon Tuitt
Louis Nix III
Manti Teo
Braxston Cave
Harrison Smith
Chris Watt

 

[AgentJ]

Stephon Tuitt
Louis Nix III
Manti Teo
Braxston Cave
Harrison Smith
Chris Watt

This list is laughable. These are what we consider our toughest players in the past 5 years?

Look at a similar list that Bama, USC, Florida, LSU, FSU, Auburn, etc. would put together in the last 5 years and it makes sense why we can't compete with those teams.

 

[kmoose]

This list is laughable. These are what we consider our toughest players in the past 5 years?

Look at a similar list that Bama, USC, Florida, LSU, FSU, Auburn, etc. would put together in the last 5 years and it makes sense why we can't compete with those teams.

You asked for ONE hard player since the Davie years. I gave you 6. Now you want to change the criteria to "who was as tough as the Alabama guys?" .........

Troll

 

[Guest]

The spread doesn't prevent you from running the ball, or doing it effectively. Oregon uses the run in their version of the spread to setup the pass. Chip Kelly does this in the NFL with the Eagles.

I am not for a specific offensive system, but rather balance and mindset. You can win in any system when you establish your ability to both run and pass. And you have to compete full out no matter what play you run, which is why Navy is so effective with so little talent. They finish every play like it was the only one that mattered. Give me mindset and discipline.

 

[irishff1014]

Stephon Tuitt
Louis Nix III
Manti Teo
Braxston Cave
Harrison Smith
Chris Watt

Only one kelly recruited player on this list.

 

[Irish#1]

The spread doesn't stop them from finishing blocks, playing through the whistle or laying people out when they have the opportunity.

Toughness does not require a qb under center or a three yards and a cloud of dust offense. It only requires tough players playing under coaches that emphasize toughness.

Toughness on a football team starts in the trenches and we don't have it on the offensive side of the ball. I hope the young guys smell blood and push the starters for playing time next year. Harry needs to stress toughness as well as technique. Just one man's opinion.

The spread doesn't prevent you from running the ball, or doing it effectively. Oregon uses the run in their version of the spread to setup the pass. Chip Kelly does this in the NFL with the Eagles.

I am not for a specific offensive system, but rather balance and mindset. You can win in any system when you establish your ability to both run and pass. And you have to compete full out no matter what play you run, which is why Navy is so effective with so little talent. They finish every play like it was the only one that mattered. Give me mindset and discipline.

I hear what you guys are saying and I agree the spread doesn't prevent you from running the ball or finishing blocks, but it's not the same type of running game. It's easier and nastier to line up and go directly at the guy across from you then trying to sprint out and make a block on an angle. I've heard this for years from Colts players.

 

[kmoose]

Only one kelly recruited player on this list.

Sheldon Day
Jarron Jones
Tarean Folston
Will Fuller
Jaylon Smith
Isaac Rochell
Corey Robinson
Kolin Hill
Greer Martini
Nyles Morgan

These guys may not all be great players, but I wouldn't call any one of them "soft".

 

[AgentJ]

Sheldon Day
Jarron Jones
Tarean Folston
Will Fuller
Jaylon Smith
Isaac Rochell
Corey Robinson
Kolin Hill
Greer Martini
Nyles Morgan

These guys may not all be great players, but I wouldn't call any one of them "soft".

I mean, come on. You're definition of soft and my definition of soft must be different because every guy you listed here is on a soft ass 7-5 football team. You just listed guys that have big muscles and are athletic. We are talking about a mindset here that our team does not, has not, and will not possess.

 

[AgentJ]

BK is not the problem here either. Dude is trying his best, look at how frustrated he is on the sideline constantly. The kids just don't have what it takes mentally to compete like he and we want them to.

He's trying. I even think BK has a hard attitude. Dude installed field turf, put in a midfield logo, jumbotrons are on the way, etc. He's not soft. And I wouldn't blame him one bit for leaving because honestly, the shit coaches here put up with is not worth the end product.

 

[goldandblue]

I posted this in the GameDay thread and will ask it here?

Is Notre Dame soft?

Do we have an intimidating player on the roster?

Give the young men time.... Click the V in the top right

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[Guest]

I hear what you guys are saying and I agree the spread doesn't prevent you from running the ball or finishing blocks, but it's not the same type of running game. It's easier and nastier to line up and go directly at the guy across from you then trying to sprint out and make a block on an angle. I've heard this for years from Colts players.

Running from the I or the 12 set can be effective, and I have called for more of that this season at times to create balance and slow down the wide blitzes defenses have been throwing at Golson.

The spread can be 'tough' also, but it tries to create mismatches the RB can exploit. The OL still blocks, the WR still block, and the RB still runs. They are just trying to find a lane to get into the second level while the WR keep the safeties thinking about the pass.

Conversely, if you run the I or 12 formations too much, they can become predictable. The best team at running the 12 set is the Patriots, but that was a shift due mostly due to personnel they had at the time.

Most teams traditionally run multiple sets throughout the game. This is what I want from BK; use the spread but mix in other formations as well to create match-up advantages at certain points in the game flow.

 

[kmoose]

I mean, come on. You're definition of soft and my definition of soft must be different because every guy you listed here is on a soft ass 7-5 football team. You just listed guys that have big muscles and are athletic. We are talking about a mindset here that our team does not, has not, and will not possess.

So Jerome Bettis(Rams) and Eric Dickerson(coincidentally, also the Rams) were soft, because they played on teams that were soft. Gotcha!!

 

[Nick Setta]

I mean, come on. You're definition of soft and my definition of soft must be different because every guy you listed here is on a soft ass 7-5 football team. You just listed guys that have big muscles and are athletic. We are talking about a mindset here that our team does not, has not, and will not possess.

You can't say a team is soft when they never give up no matter the situation. They shoot themselves but they aren't soft.