Is Kelly a REALLY good coach?

[bkess8]

I think one playoff appearance every 5 years is a very reasonable goal for the program.

That is going to be a hard pill to swallow for some Irish fans. I think the bigger concern is that we are in and out the top 25 year after year. It would be easier to discuss all of this if we were a consistent top 15 team year after year!

 

[Buster Bluth]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but even if the team is a complete bust next year on the field, I still think the only reason we fire Kelly is if recruiting breaks down and/or we're getting blown out.

Changing the head ball coach is really traumatic to a program. You're almost guaranteed at least one year of weak recruiting and you also are almost guaranteed to have a whole bunch of players on the roster who don't fit into whatever system the new coach wants to install. I said this when CW was the coach and I'll say the same for BK: barring disaster, I want to see them on a 10 year plan. That's the only way this program can possibly have the stability it needs to be successful over a long term. Judging a coach by any one season (or even a few seasons) is subjecting the program to the whims of probability.

I really don't think ND's program is at the point where people can be demanding playoff appearances every other year or anything like that. I think one playoff appearance every 5 years is a very reasonable goal for the program.

I think that's all fair. I'm not sure it's a ten year plan or whatever, I just think that (like Tressel at OSU), it can take 5+ years to get the program to the point where they're reloading every year.

But if the 2015 squad goes 8-4, his seat will be hotter than the surface of the sun.

Returning 9/11 offensive starters and 11/11 defensive starters. McGlinchey will seamlessly replace Lombard and Smythe/Luatua will replace Koyack well enough. There is really no excuse outside of Golson for this offense not to be among the most efficiently balanced in the country next season. Folston has been on a tear the last half of the season and will enter 2015 as the clear #1 back behind an OL that has gelled and grown up during 2014. Every receiver is back, and Golson should improve dramatically with another year to get the game to slow down.

If the defense can be a top 35 defense--not out of the question considering essentially everyone in the two deep returns, this team should be no worse than 10-2.

Especially against this slate of games:

vs Texas
at Virginia
vs Georgia Tech
vs UMass
at Clemson
vs Navy
vs Southern Cal
BYE
at Temple
at Pittsburgh
vs Wake Forest
vs Boston College
at Stanford

 

[pkt77242]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but even if the team is a complete bust next year on the field, I still think the only reason we fire Kelly is if recruiting breaks down and/or we're getting blown out.

Changing the head ball coach is really traumatic to a program. You're almost guaranteed at least one year of weak recruiting and you also are almost guaranteed to have a whole bunch of players on the roster who don't fit into whatever system the new coach wants to install. I said this when CW was the coach and I'll say the same for BK: barring disaster, I want to see them on a 10 year plan. That's the only way this program can possibly have the stability it needs to be successful over a long term. Judging a coach by any one season (or even a few seasons) is subjecting the program to the whims of probability.

I really don't think ND's program is at the point where people can be demanding playoff appearances every other year or anything like that. I think one playoff appearance every 5 years is a very reasonable goal for the program.

I completely disagree, you know well before 10 years if you have the right coach or not. I think that 5-6 years tells you if you have the right coach or not. Look if ND goes 7-6 this year and then say 8-5 next year, it is going to be increasingly difficult to keep Kelly.

 

[irishff1014]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but even if the team is a complete bust next year on the field, I still think the only reason we fire Kelly is if recruiting breaks down and/or we're getting blown out.

Changing the head ball coach is really traumatic to a program. You're almost guaranteed at least one year of weak recruiting and you also are almost guaranteed to have a whole bunch of players on the roster who don't fit into whatever system the new coach wants to install. I said this when CW was the coach and I'll say the same for BK: barring disaster, I want to see them on a 10 year plan. That's the only way this program can possibly have the stability it needs to be successful over a long term. Judging a coach by any one season (or even a few seasons) is subjecting the program to the whims of probability.

I really don't think ND's program is at the point where people can be demanding playoff appearances every other year or anything like that. I think one playoff appearance every 5 years is a very reasonable goal for the program.

If kelly thinks like that he should just quit now. 20% win never fly.

 

[pkt77242]

If kelly thinks like that he should just quit now. 20% win never fly.

I think that a playoff appearance once every 5 years is fine as long as you mix in 1-2 more high level bowl games as well (the old BCS bowl games) over that 5 year span.

 

[IrishinSyria]

That is going to be a hard pill to swallow for some Irish fans. I think the bigger concern is that we are in and out the top 25 year after year. It would be easier to discuss all of this if we were a consistent top 15 team year after year!

I know. But the college football landscape has changed. ND is probably one of a group of 10-20 elite college football programs these days. Every year there's also a handful of programs that aren't elite but have everything going for them and play like they are an elite team (Miss St would be a good example this year.)

Given the struggles 4 coaches in a row have had with things like recruiting enough depth on the DL (for example) I think people really have to ask themselves what they can expect out of this program. I think over a 5 year span, 1 top 4 season, 2 top 25 seasons, 1 winning season, and 1 bad year would be a great result. Because of the inherent randomness of a 12 game season, I'm willing to wait 10 years to see if those are the kind of results were getting, as long as the program seems to be progressing in areas like recruiting, academics, player development, etc...

 

[Grahambo]

I completely disagree, you know well before 10 years if you have the right coach or not. I think that 5-6 years tells you if you have the right coach or not. Look if ND goes 7-6 this year and then say 8-5 next year, it is going to be increasingly difficult to keep Kelly.

It was clear Bob, Ty, and Weis weren't the guy. If you feel the same about BK as you did with them then that's your prerogative. Program is in a much different position then it was with them.

Maybe he needs to start with several replacements on the staff first.

 

[pkt77242]

It was clear Bob, Ty, and Weis weren't the guy. If you feel the same about BK as you did with them then that's your prerogative. Program is in a much different position then it was with them.

Maybe he needs to start with several replacements on the staff first.

I am not arguing that the program isn't better then it was under them but if that is the bar we are holding our team and coaches too then that is a damn low bar. Can you not understand that the program can be better then it was before but still not where it should be. If he goes 7-6 this year (or 8-5) and then 8-5 next year we will have plenty of data to judge the Kelly years and the truth is that he wouldn't be meeting expectations. If you want to keep the bar that low then that is your choice but I am sure that most fans (and alumni and probably our AD) would be ready for Kelly to be gone if that happened.

 

[zbikowski88]

I do think Kelly should give up play calling duties and focus entirely on coaching next year. Hire Jeff Quinn or someone he can trust and just focus on the team as a whole more.

 

[pkt77242]

I do think Kelly should give up play calling duties and focus entirely on coaching next year. Hire Jeff Quinn or someone he can trust and just focus on the team as a whole more.

This I could get behind.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I do think Kelly should give up play calling duties and focus entirely on coaching next year. Hire Jeff Quinn or someone he can trust and just focus on the team as a whole more.

I could get behind this too but what member of the staff do you get rid of to make room?

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

Kelly should hire a Special Teams Coach imo. I do think he will make some changes to the staff.

 

[dang227]

I could get behind this too but what member of the staff do you get rid of to make room?

Booker


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[zbikowski88]

I could get behind this too but what member of the staff do you get rid of to make room?

I could see Booker, Denbrock leaving, and hate to say this but possibly Tony Alford taking a promotion with another team

 

[Buster Bluth]

Booker

I would make that trade ten times out of ten.

 

[irishff1014]

I could see Booker, Denbrock leaving, and hate to say this but possibly Tony Alford taking a promotion with another team

This team needs him for his recruiting ability alone.

 

[zbikowski88]

This team needs him for his recruiting ability alone.

One has to think if Jim McElwain leaves CSU, Alford is a possibility for the head coach gig

 

[Nick Setta]

Look at how many career ending injuries have plagued ND. Grace, Hounshell, Barratti, basically Councell, Springman, and Carrico. It sucks and is a solid reason as to why the depth from the 2011 class is gone. 2012 was just a bad year recruiting with players like Neal,Kiel,Ferguson,Mahone, Barratti ,and Russell all not being with the program right now. (There's probably more). I like what Kelly has been doing with the 2014 and 2015 classes as there are actual bodies on the D-line. Just sprinkle 1-2 elite rushers and we have a solid D-line.

 

[anarin]

I avoided this board last night on purpose. I knew stupid ass fucking threads like this would be made. I cringe every single time ndsean posts...

This team is killing themselves. Kelly, just like every other coach cannot put in a perfect gameplan when his team cannot execute the simplest of assignments. The defense is ridiculously young, they will be better next season... hopefully.

 

[enrico514]

He's not a good coach... he's a great coach!

 

[NDohio]

I do think Kelly should give up play calling duties and focus entirely on coaching next year. Hire Jeff Quinn or someone he can trust and just focus on the team as a whole more.

Yes, yes, and yes. BK having to focus so hard on the offense has to take quality time away from him spending time with the D and ST coaches. Be a CEO and run the organization.

 

[Fbolt]

I've said this before and stand behind it. Kelly reminds me of John Cooper.

 

[NDRock]

I've said this before and stand behind it. Kelly reminds me of John Cooper.

I'd take six straight seasons finishing in the top 12.

 

[Nick Setta]

I've said this before and stand behind it. Kelly reminds me of John Cooper.

He doesn't bring in the talent Cooper did though. Kelly also beats SC at a high rate.

 

[West Coast Domer]

He doesn't bring in the talent Cooper did though. Kelly also beats SC at a high rate.

An SC team on sanctions

 

[IrishFaninTX]

Every time ND has fired a coach since Holtz the new coach has not been any better. Until Kelly. 8 wins may not be what we as fans want but it certainly is more consistent than anything the previous 3 coaches did. That may be all ND can reasonably expect in today's football landscape. Throw in an occasional 10+ season. I'm not even sure if Holtz or Saban would do much better these days. Add the injuries, rigorous academic schedule that includes mid terms and then preparing for finals late in the season.

My question is if Kelly is so bad and should be fired then who is going to replace him? And I mean realistically. Saban or Stoops are not coming to ND. And keep in mind by firing Kelly we also risk a good recruiting class and losing great recruiters like Alford. So we could fire Kelly, set fire to this and possible future recruiting classes, possibly lose Alford, and could end up with a worse coach who might have a good season or 2 with Kelly's recruits but then have a 3-9 in year 3. I just hope if Kelly does leave or gets fired that Swarbrick has a very good candidate already sewn up. I can't take losing seasons again. 3 things separate Kelly from the previous coaches. He has never had a losing season, so far has had 8+ wins in each season, and has appeared in a national championship game.

 

[stlnd01]

My question is if Kelly is so bad and should be fired then who is going to replace him? And I mean realistically. Saban or Stoops are not coming to ND. And keep in mind by firing Kelly we also risk a good recruiting class and losing great recruiters like Alford. So we could fire Kelly, set fire to this and possible future recruiting classes, possibly lose Alford, and could end up with a worse coach who might have a good season or 2 with Kelly's recruits but then have a 3-9 in year 3. I just hope if Kelly does leave or gets fired that Swarbrick has a very good candidate already sewn up. I can't take losing seasons again. 3 things separate Kelly from the previous coaches. He has never had a losing season, so far has had 8+ wins in each season, and has appeared in a national championship game.

We're not firing Kelly.

 

[Nick Setta]

An SC team on sanctions

So what? A win is a win.

 

[NDinTEXAS]

Imo Kelly needs to run the ball more. Auburn and Oregon are spread teams that spread you out and run it down your throat. I think Kelly puts way to many responsibilities on his quarterbacks. When EVG seems rattled from some of his turnovers Kelly doesn't back off of him even when we seem to be running the ball well with Folston.

 

[NDRock]

Imo Kelly needs to run the ball more. Auburn and Oregon are spread teams that spread you out and run it down your throat. I think Kelly puts way to many responsibilities on his quarterbacks. When EVG seems rattled from some of his turnovers Kelly doesn't back off of him even when we seem to be running the ball well with Folston.

Kelly's offense would be much more suited for a place like Florida where he could get athletes all over the field. Historically we can't recruit enough speed but what we have no problem recruiting are OL and TE. Would love to see a more power spread with multiple TE's used.