Head coach possibilities

[WabashFalcon]

I'm with your general point Wabash .. hindsight is always 20/20.

Also, I don't agree that you should kick a field goal everytime you're in range on 4th down ... or punt on every 4th down. It's conventional wisdom to do so ... but I've seen studies that demonstrate that a team has more probability of scoring more points over the course of the game when taking more chances on 4th down. In fact, he same study shows that unless you're backed up on your own 20 yard line ... it's best to go for it ... on every occasion.

Given that Weis comes from the Bellichek/Parcells lineage (Bellichek is a economics major) i'm sure they've used their immense resources to come up with probability models on when you should and shouldn't chance it on 4th down.

If the team scores on that possession nobody is looking back ... again, hindsight is 20/20.

According to alleycat, Brown... you and I are impossible to reason with. Thank you for an intelliectual response... much like phork.

Alleycat... you're down that close, after your Freshman KICKER has missed a FG... down 14... i'm putting the ball in the hand of my Heisman candidate.

 

[mbooch]

After his kicker missed two in a row?

Actually, the sequence was missed fg, go for it and lose, missed fg.

And each time the offense stalled, it did so with incomplete passes.

 

[mbooch]

So if Tauch misses three chip shots, you're telling me that you wouldn't be calling for Weis's head phork for 'realizing that the kid didn't have it and our best chance was to go for it?'

There's another side of the coin, though. Isn't it the head coach's job to recruit good kickers?

 

[WabashFalcon]

There's another side of the coin, though. Isn't it the head coach's job to recruit good kickers?

And he has! The kid is A) A freshman and B) a kicker. Both are total head cases. I love Tauch. I think he is going to be a fantastic kicker when it is all said and done. But... when you are down 14 points with (maybe) one chance with the ball again in the HALF and three yards from paydirt... take the chance.

 

[fightinirish68]

its funny how everyone wants to fire weiss when he goes for it and doesnt make it but once he goes for it and makes hes a genius and everyone praises him.

 

[BeatSC]

I have been defending CW for a long time but he isn't getting it done. in 2007 a good coach should have been able to win at least 6 games. Last year 10 games and this year 10, 11 or even 12. It's nice to talk about how we're almos undefeated but we are also almost below 500. This team isn't better than last year we just have a few players that are better than last year. If CW stays CB and Tenutu need to go. CW has put the worst ND defenses n the field that I can ever remember. I honestly would take about 7 or 8 other coaches. How do we think CW and Co. would do if they were coaching at Temple, Buff, Cincy etc.? They would suck and be gone after 5 years of futility. Their recruiting would be shit a swell. CW works alot hardet than Ty so he does better recruiting but it's because he is ND and we have the tradition and the TV contract. CW needs to win out to keep his job otherwise I think their is more upside to him leaving. At least we would have hope and a team that could be properly motivated. With all that offesnive talent and 21 points is just pathetic. HE needs to dominate over the next 3 weeks or beat it.

 

[NDMontana]

I'm taking it hard man. Just the shit saying that Weis is to blame is fucking nuts. He didn't fumble on the two. He didn't fumble on the first drive of the game. He didn't miss two chip shots. He didn't throw a pick that bounced off the back of a WR.

Tell me... did Weis call plays that gave his team a chance to score and win all the way until the final whistle? Yes or no?

Three failed trips to the red zone. Fumble, Interception and turnover on downs. How many downs did the team have in the red zone on those possessions? I counted 25 plays inside the 20 yard line and it led to 14 points (Tate's last TD was from 36 yards out).

25 plays - 2 missed field goals = 23 plays in the red zone and only two touchdowns. Maybe his play calling wasn't that great after all.

 

[IrishInFl]

I got off work and have been drinkin'. Didn't watch the game, and I don't care what happened. We lost, we suck, Weis has got to go. As much as I would love Chris Petersen to coach here, I don't see that happening. Brian Kelly is the next ND coach if a switch does happen. Book it.

 

[chyrspchuck]

When did you have you lobotomy? and did insurance pay for it? Jesus, CW has run the program into the ground. So he can recruit some athletes. So what. He can't coach them. 3 yrs of the country laughing at us. navy needed OT to beat SMU! And lost to Temple! It's called coaching. We don't have any.

RUNNING THE PROGRAM INTO THE GROUND = DUMBEST STATEMENT OF ALL TIME ON THIS BOARD


Yeah CW has just run this program into the ground. 9-4, 10-3, 3-9, 7-6, 6-3

I don't see how this is running us into the ground. We are getting better every year. I understand to some of you this logic doesn't make sense. I understand that the 3-9 record is still stuck in some of your heads. When Tyrone Willingham was here we DIDNT HAVE JIMMY CLAUSEN the BEST QUARTERBACK in the NATION. we DIDNT HAVE the two most DYNAMIC RECIEVERS IN THE NATION. WE HAD SHIT BAGS AND LOTS OF THEM. Guys we are getting better, but, no matter what Wabash Falcon and I and some of the other fans say this forum and Irishenvy will be used by Phork and the likes to bitch about firing CW, until he is fired, and then they will want to fire the next guy. It's sickening.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

One name makes ANY sense. Pope Urban.

Not condoning, not requesting. But that is the one name that is 'sexy' enough to keep our existing recruits and keep us in play for some of our other key targets. I really don't think it can happen unless FSU pulls one out of their ass and beats UF. Tebow is gone, and Urban ain't used to losin'. He would be the ONLY coach sans Charlie that could keep Jimmy and Tater around for 2010.

No Charlie or No Urban in 2010 = No Jimmy and No Golden = No BCS game in the 2010's.

Harsh?

 

[NDMontana]

RUNNING THE PROGRAM INTO THE GROUND = DUMBEST STATEMENT OF ALL TIME ON THIS BOARD


Yeah CW has just run this program into the ground. 9-4, 10-3, 3-9, 7-6, 6-3

I don't see how this is running us into the ground. We are getting better every year. I understand to some of you this logic doesn't make sense. I understand that the 3-9 record is still stuck in some of your heads. When Tyrone Willingham was here we DIDNT HAVE JIMMY CLAUSEN the BEST QUARTERBACK in the NATION. we DIDNT HAVE the two most DYNAMIC RECIEVERS IN THE NATION. WE HAD SHIT BAGS AND LOTS OF THEM. Guys we are getting better, but, no matter what Wabash Falcon and I and some of the other fans say this forum and Irishenvy will be used by Phork and the likes to bitch about firing CW, until he is fired, and then they will want to fire the next guy. It's sickening.

Well, I've said repeatedly that I'm not in favor of canning Charlie. Good point about not having Clausen and Co. when Willingham was the coach. But lets do a side-by-side comparison of Weis and WIllingham. And let's also remember that CW is the first coach to lose to Navy in 40+ years....and he's done it twice in three years.

CW vs. Ty Willingham

Vs. Teams above .500

Weis 8-19 (.296)
Willingham 12-15 (.444)


Vs. Teams that finish in the Top 25:

Weis 1-13 (.071)
Willingham 7-9 (.438)

Vs. Sub-.500 Teams:

Weis 19-2 (.905)
Willingham 9-1 (.900)

Finally, you said the team is getting better. ND lost to .500 Michigan and to Navy, coming off a loss to Temple. ND barely beat Purdue, Michigan State and Washington each of whom is, at best, average. Two wins vs. teams with winning records: BC and Nevada.

 

[rogosIRISH77]

Let's just stick to history and facts to guide us to a decision on coaching...

1) This whole head coaching mess and the fall of Irish dominance was caused by the foolish act of booting Lou Holtz out of ND. From then on we never have had the perfect guy to coach our team Davie, Ty, nor Weis are dynasty guys. All hired rapidly and under pressure because the Notre Dame front office fucked up.

2) On a brighter side, Weis is much better than his two predecessors. He has recruiting back up with the elite teams. Ex: Manti Te'o... With the talent we have now and will continue to get, Charlie could consistently lead us to 8 or 9 win seasons maybe even one or two BCS bowl victories in his career.

3) Charlie is not perfect. He obviously lacked in getting the players fired up for Navy, whether they were looking ahead to Pitt or whatever it was it is bad coaching if you can't have your players ready to play on Saturday. I also have to say that I am sometimes concerned with his playcalling.

4) However, firing him too quickly and finding a replacement too quickly will just result the same way it ihas since we fired Lou. We will get a new guy and maybe he has some success shaking things up a little bit one year or two years... but he is going to fail at least once or twice in his first 5 years because with a coaching change we could lose recruits or players early to the NFL like Floyd, Clausen, or Tate. And there's always the whole "rebuilding process".

5) Therefore, the only way Weis should be fired is if we have that for-sure dynasty coach. The proven winner. Someone who will have the players ready every Saturday and the only way we lose is if the other team is better, but even with a coach of this caliber he gives us a chance to win every game. I am talking about a Tony Dungy or Bill Cowher. I might even venture to say Brian Kelly would be worth firing Weis for...

6) Otherwise, I say we keep Weis until we find that dynasty coach that is ready to come in and won't give us any lag. Someone that can come in, win early, and continue to win as long as he is there. It would be way better to have a few more 9 win Weis seasons until we find this person rather than to jump ship too quickly and pick up another coach that just isn't quite the guy we need.

7) BILL COWHER. That's right folks. He's mean, he finally put some fire in our players, get them pumped and excited for EVERY game. He's a proven winner as a HEAD coach. He would definitely bring us a nasty D. But, with his firey mean coaching style he also has class and is a good guy. Can we get him? I don't know. He is retired, but I also hear rumors of a return to the NFL. I know people want him, but I think if ND really went out and got him, he would join ship. The point is to generate some hype over this so that it may become a reality. I mean I am sure people in the office have him somewhere as an idea, but he needs to be at the top of the list. Swarbrick needs to go out and get him. Then, we can fire Charlie Weis. If, a big if, but we should try. So who's with me?? Can I get some Bill Cowher love here?

 

[jason_h537]

Wow 191 posts in a day.

 

[navyman]

Tony Dungy anyone,

 

[Merlin]

I'm not sure Charlie is the right guy, but if we hire Gruden I'll never watch another ND game until the administration can make some better decisions.

I'm hoping CW stays, but I have to ask why not Gruden? (hypothetically)

 

[Bubba]

I'm hoping CW stays, but I have to ask why not Gruden? (hypothetically)

I don't believe his NFL experience translates well to these college kids. He may be great for the first year or two. (see Tampa ... where he took someone else's players and won a championship, but then turned them into a mediocre team shortly thereafter) I'd prefer someone who has actually proven they can win a NC in the college ranks. Despite the fact that I can't stand the guy, Alabama went out and got the best man (a guy with college success on his resume) for their team just a few years ago. They paid him like they wanted him and it is going to reap benefits.

Seriously , I'd be okay with keeping Charlie. But something has got to be done about our defense and the fact that our offense always starts out slow. If our team could just show that 4th qtr desire and intensity from the beginning of the game, we would be alright.

 

[irish4ever]

Petersen isn't going anywhere. Not saying I agree with this one way or the other, but I bet Weis stays.

If he wins out, I agree. If not, I say that he won't be back. Chances are that he won't be back. I expect at least one more loss (Pitt and/or Standford on the road), primarily because our defense flat out sucks as a whole!

 

[phork]

I'm with your general point Wabash .. hindsight is always 20/20.

Also, I don't agree that you should kick a field goal everytime you're in range on 4th down ... or punt on every 4th down. It's conventional wisdom to do so ... but I've seen studies that demonstrate that a team has more probability of scoring more points over the course of the game when taking more chances on 4th down. In fact, the same study shows that unless you're backed up on your own 20 yard line ... it's best to go for it ... on every occasion. You can read that study here if you're inclined: Advanced NFL Stats: The 4th Down Study - Part 4

Given that Weis comes from the Bellichek/Parcells lineage (Bellichek is a economics major) i'm sure they've used their immense resources to come up with probability models on when you should and shouldn't chance it on 4th down.

If the team scores on that possession nobody is looking back ... again, hindsight is 20/20.

Advanced NFL statistics is why ND is in this mess. Please stop trying to apply NFL statistics and coaches to this team. The NFL game is much different than the college game. I would have looked on that play as a possible turning point in that game. I would have said "Oh my, what if he doesn't make it?".

According to alleycat, Brown... you and I are impossible to reason with. Thank you for an intelliectual response... much like phork.

Alleycat... you're down that close, after your Freshman KICKER has missed a FG... down 14... i'm putting the ball in the hand of my Heisman candidate.

Your freshman kicker who has missed his first kick after a record 14 straight !

its funny how everyone wants to fire weiss when he goes for it and doesnt make it but once he goes for it and makes hes a genius and everyone praises him.

I call him out everytime, whether he makes it or not.

I'm hoping CW stays, but I have to ask why not Gruden? (hypothetically)

Gruden has a perfect gig right now, and even if he wanted to coach again, it won't be at the college level. Same with Cowher, Dungy, et al.

 

[tko]

i'm willing to sacrifice a few recruits to get this right if the admin decides to make the change. For God's sake, though, get it fkn right. If you're going to get rid of Charlie bring someone in with proven winning experience that can be here for more than fkn 5 yrs. i'm sick of the turnover.

 

[Catsudon]

-Chris Peters
-Brian Kelly
-Jon Gruden

Jon Gruden ?!? are you kidding? the only reason he's got a superbowl ring, is because he was playing with dungy's defense. tampa bay went to hell after that. while colts is still doing pretty well.

even taking his offensive prowess at face value, we actually need to improve our defense.

as for weis, i'm not going to jump on the pile, there are plenty of threads out there.

 

[JefMaj]

This team will be set back 3 years - and who knows how much longer. I live and breath ND - grew up 10 miles from campus - graduated from there. My wife bitches all of the time on the amount of effort I spend involved. I'm demoralized, I'm sick, I've never felt this low, whereas, I woke up yesterday looking forward to hoping JC and Tate came back one more year.. Tenuta should be dragged through the streets - like Blackhawk down. Now, I think JC's gone, Tate's gone, no Hendersen, Cooper, Prater, Barr, Nix, or Martin... somebody better start making phone calls to whatever 3 and 2 stars are left....

 

[emwilki2]

The administration needs to see the season through then evaluate things. There is no reason to panic now and make an emotional decision.

While true that ND has been playing well below expectations, I am not sure briging in a Gruden would improve things.

 

[NDMontana]

i'm willing to sacrifice a few recruits to get this right if the admin decides to make the change. For God's sake, though, get it fkn right. If you're going to get rid of Charlie bring someone in with proven winning experience that can be here for more than fkn 5 yrs. i'm sick of the turnover.

You're bang on here, TKO. Charlie Weis got hired because the administration fired Willingham because of some comment Urban Meyer made about dream job. It's kind of like dumping a cute girl who you've been dating a while just because you heard that some drop dead sexy chick said that you're kind of cute. You just don't do it....especially if the cute one is fairly reliable and willing to put out.

Whatever ND does this offseason, I hope they do it for the correct reasons and in the correct way. If the administration is going to fire CW than they need to do it prior to the bowl game for which they are selected in order to allow the new coach to get a staff in place and to work with the recruits.

However, my preference would be to give Weis one more year with extremely stringent performance expectations set. I would provide the following list of benchmarks to CW and tell him that the consequences of failing to achieve even one will lead to his summary termination:

1. One loss or less in the regular season.
2. If the team should lose one game, the loss may not be to an unranked team.
3. The team must earn a birth in BCS game
4. The team may not lose that game by more than six points.
5. The defense must be in the top 50
6. No losses at Notre Dame Stadium

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Weis got hired because the administration fired Willingham because of some comment Urban Meyer made about dream job.
[/LIST]

I hope you don't believe this part of your own post. There are at least 7 things wrong with this one sentence...

 

[NDMontana]

I hope you don't believe this part of your own post. There are at least 7 things wrong with this one sentence...

I didn't say that I thought Willingham was performing up to expectations but the reason ND really fired him was because they thought they had Urban Meyer locked up. You may need to refresh your memory on how the situation unfolded. Remember that in Willingham's final year ND was 6-5 and heading to a bowl game.

I suppose I could've said Weis was ultimately hired because....

But Meyer is absolutely the reason Willingham was fired and when bolted for Florida the scramble began.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

the reason ND really fired him was because they thought they had Urban Meyer locked up.

Thats what the media told you, and you believe it, but thats not what REALLY happened. There's plenty of information out there about how Ty's final year went down. You should go check it out.

 

[NDMontana]

Thats what the media told you, and you believe it, but thats not what REALLY happened. There's plenty of information out there about how Ty's final year went down. You should go check it out.

There is? Every article I've ever read revolves around a hastily called "emergency" meeting, a stunned coach, shocked players, a heated courtship of Urban Meyer that concluded with Meyer spurning ND for Florida, George O'Leary lying and, finally, Charlie Weis and the "decided schematic advantage".

 

[WabashFalcon]

I'm hoping CW stays, but I have to ask why not Gruden? (hypothetically)

Gruden has stated that he only wants an NFL job and hates to develop talent.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Gruden has stated that he only wants an NFL job and hates to develop talent.

Which sucks for him considering hes a mediocre NFL HC who struggles to relate to his adult players due to his attempts to motivate them by belittling them as if they were college kids.

Gruden would be a sharp change from Charlie but I dont believe we need to go that route unless Gruden is 100% commited to Notre Dame and has no more plans for the NFL.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

A pretty disturbing stat that I saw last night about Notre Dame.

We're 3-16 vs Teams with winning records since 2007.

That is pretty embarassing but I guess people dont mind anymore since Notre Dame football apparently doesn't matter to anybody else on this site. Not sure why we're even an indipendent team, maybe we should just join the Big East.