For the Weis apologists

[The Polish Irishman]

I saw a lot of sacks because missed assignments on the online, a few from holding the ball too long, but the majority because our oline looked like swiss cheese

 

[jimnightshade]

I have a hard time with all the penalties. this is a sign of a young team they will get better as the year goes on. I think they jump and beat someone we should not beat. Go IRISH

 

[big daddy]

Have any of you guys that have issues with coach Weis thought about how most teams bring out their A game when they play the Irish. A good example is Michigan State, it seems that after they play ND they go down hill. Could it also be that GT took Marshall for granted, and that Marshal is not in a rebuilding year.

 

[Timugen]

Have any of you guys that have issues with coach Weis thought about how most teams bring out their A game when they play the Irish. A good example is Michigan State, it seems that after they play ND they go down hill. Could it also be that GT took Marshall for granted, and that Marshal is not in a rebuilding year.

Damn we're good at making excuses. I'm finally starting to understand why the rest of the college football world ridicules us.

 

[Junkhead]

I have never bought the "offensive genius" stuff. Quinn took a huge step up from Soph. to Junior, some of the that is coaching, some is the opening up of the offense, and some is Quinn himself. As far as I'm concerned, the patriots and the super bowl rings are ancient history. After multiple 3 and outs, its time to try something else. I knew this year could be tough, but its been worse than I thought so far. I think Weis has the right attitude and love of the game and school. His (and the other coaches) recruiting is going to be the difference, and it has been outstanding. This year is going to take patience, and I really hope the offense takes some chances, opens it up. Show some offensive ingenuity again!

 

[Timugen]

I have never bought the "offensive genius" stuff. Quinn took a huge step up from Soph. to Junior, some of the that is coaching, some is the opening up of the offense, and some is Quinn himself. As far as I'm concerned, the patriots and the super bowl rings are ancient history. After multiple 3 and outs, its time to try something else. I knew this year could be tough, but its been worse than I thought so far. I think Weis has the right attitude and love of the game and school. His (and the other coaches) recruiting is going to be the difference, and it has been outstanding. This year is going to take patience, and I really hope the offense takes some chances, opens it up. Show some offensive ingenuity again!

Amen

 

[johnnd05]

Damn we're good at making excuses. I'm finally starting to understand why the rest of the college football world ridicules us.

What the frank does this mean? Nobody is denying that our team has looked pretty bad on the whole (and downright awful at times), that we're not going to be very good this season, and so on. What's being contested is whether we should basically give up on Weis, and whether we can expect that things will be better down the line if we follow our current path. The guy inherited an awful situation, won with it for two years, and is now in the process of - dare I say - rebuilding from the ashes of the Losingham years. OF COURSE we're not going to be very good this year (though I do think we'll sneak up on some teams soon enough)!! But that's no reason to call for the coach's head.

I somehow remember, though, that I said I was done with this stupid argument. Probably best to hold myself to that.

 

[big daddy]

What the frank does this mean? Nobody is denying that our team has looked pretty bad on the whole (and downright awful at times), that we're not going to be very good this season, and so on. What's being contested is whether we should basically give up on Weis, and whether we can expect that things will be better down the line if we follow our current path. The guy inherited an awful situation, won with it for two years, and is now in the process of - dare I say - rebuilding from the ashes of the Losingham years. OF COURSE we're not going to be very good this year (though I do think we'll sneak up on some teams soon enough)!! But that's no reason to call for the coach's head.

I somehow remember, though, that I said I was done with this stupid argument. Probably best to hold myself to that.

Good point. Now here is a level headed fan that know team building takes time.

 

[connor_in]

so OK...we run the slant and now we will beat USC...am I getting that right?

I am not a CW apologist...I am stll waiting a couple of years before full on emabrace or pissed off modes

Right now we have loads of work to do everywhere...God bless the boys on D by the way...keeping us in it until the could barely lift themselves off the bench after a PSU drive then 3 quick ND O plays and a punt to return to the filed

The O line was slightly better than last game but still mostly sieve like, and how many freakin penalties can any team absorb and continue to try drive down the field?

The recevers were hardly able to get open too, so who knows what to think of JC as he runs for his life right after getting the snap or 2 seconds after getting the snap

 

[Timugen]

What the frank does this mean? Nobody is denying that our team has looked pretty bad on the whole (and downright awful at times), that we're not going to be very good this season, and so on. What's being contested is whether we should basically give up on Weis, and whether we can expect that things will be better down the line if we follow our current path. The guy inherited an awful situation, won with it for two years, and is now in the process of - dare I say - rebuilding from the ashes of the Losingham years. OF COURSE we're not going to be very good this year (though I do think we'll sneak up on some teams soon enough)!! But that's no reason to call for the coach's head.

I somehow remember, though, that I said I was done with this stupid argument. Probably best to hold myself to that.

I in no way think we should give up on Weis. I just think it's time to stop manufacturing excuses for poor coaching.

Yes, he's bringing in the talent and the future looks bright; I acknowledge this and look forward to the next few years. That does not excuse him from criticism, however, when it comes to very questionable calls for the beginning of the season.

I, for one, don't want us to be the first team infected with the college football transitive herpes loss to a I-AA team, but the way things are looking we will be.

 

[big daddy]

I in no way think we should give up on Weis. I just think it's time to stop manufacturing excuses for poor coaching.

Yes, he's bringing in the talent and the future looks bright; I acknowledge this and look forward to the next few years. That does not excuse him from criticism, however, when it comes to very questionable calls for the beginning of the season.

I, for one, don't want us to be the first team infected with the college football transitive herpes loss to a I-AA team, but the way things are looking we will be.

That cool, I hear you. We just have to be positive and take it one game at a time and yes like you said it's ok to question the coach and his play calling, but when fans start calling for Weis' head because he lost two games that it not cool.

 

[johnnd05]

I in no way think we should give up on Weis. I just think it's time to stop manufacturing excuses for poor coaching.

Yes, he's bringing in the talent and the future looks bright; I acknowledge this and look forward to the next few years. That does not excuse him from criticism, however, when it comes to very questionable calls for the beginning of the season.

I, for one, don't want us to be the first team infected with the college football transitive herpes loss to a I-AA team, but the way things are looking we will be.

Okay then. Maybe there's not as much distance between us as I'd thought. But some of what you've said - in particular the "he's the furthest thing from an offensive genius" line - sure sounded rather like giving up to me. In any case, it is once again not worth prolonging this any further.

Go Irish!

 

[big daddy]

Yeah, let's put this thread to sleep and move on to better things. Like talking about how we will beat Meatchicken next week

 

[Timugen]

Okay then. Maybe there's not as much distance between us as I'd thought. But some of what you've said - in particular the "he's the furthest thing from an offensive genius" line - sure sounded rather like giving up to me. In any case, it is once again not worth prolonging this any further.

Go Irish!

 

[johnnd05]

Yeah, let's put this thread to sleep and move on to better things. Like talking about how we will beat Meatchicken next week

Sounds good. We'll beat them ... BAD!

 

[Irish Fuzzy]

Yeah, let's put this thread to sleep and move on to better things. Like talking about how we will beat Meatchicken next week

OHHHHH SOOOO GOOD SOOOO GOOD!!! HAHAHAHA MEATCHICKEN!!!!!

 

[Irish Fuzzy]

We have a very young team. Charile is still new to college football. I want to criticize his coaching and playcalling but I cant. We need to have patience. I honestly thing before mid season this year we will be VERY impressed with OUR COACH and OUR TEAM!
GOOOOOO IRISH!
Fuzzy

 

[CLEARWALL]

What I find downright insulting and two faced are all these "experts" who predicted this awful start for the team, telling us it was a rebuilding year, and that ND had no shot this season...now, all of a sudden Charlie is on the hot seat? HOW?? I thought we were rebuilding and should expect this? Very little of this is Charlie's fault. His play calling these last two weeks have been really poor, and I think he's worrying too much about the egos of his QB instead of winning a ball game. I dont know how many times I heard the ESPN commentators say, "Surely all of these swing passes are setting up a shot deep." I dont know why those shots never came. Charlie was trying too hard to preserve Jimmy and not trying to impact the scoreboard. But hopefully next year, we'll have the resources to go for the jugular more. Right now, it would just get someone hurt.

 

[ocNDd]

First of all...
1 - Sorry for continuing a post that's repeatedly been declared finished.
2 - I've only seen 3 qtrs of the season so far due to the fact I'm in South East Asia right now...so I haven't seen it all with my own eyes in 2007. But I've seen enough and read enough to believe I have a feel for what the situation is.

I'll do my best to not ramble, so here are just a few thoughts I have.

- I believe Charlie is a good coach, and he certainly had a big impact his first year, but "offensive genius" might be a bit much given the facts at this stage. (those facts being 6pts in 2 games and a total of -8 rushing yds). Not that I'm for judging a person's abilities on 2 games...but I'd hope that a genius wouldn't suffer those types of horrendous showings. I know all the "we've played great defenses" arguments...and solely blame that when the GT and PSU defenses are #1 and #2 in the nation by allowing an average of 3pts and neg net rushing yards come January...and the Irish pick it up from here on out.

- I know the O-line sucks and is largely the reason for the crappy numbers. I know they're young. But last year the (more experienced) line underachieved as well...not this horribly...but it wasn't exactly an inspiring group performance for the year. Somewhere in there one has to factor in coaching & stop simply saying "they're young". Here's to hoping for continued improvement...at a geometric rate.

- The penalties are frustrating & Charlie does a good job of taking responsibility for it. However...the team had many penalties last year and CW kept saying that he'd fix it the next week...only to have the same problem repeat itself.

- The "it's Ty's fault" argument is tired and old. I know the team is young and the upperclassmen are few...but if we're only going to expect CW to win with an all senior team (and those seniors having 3-4 yrs starting experience)...then we're in for a rough cycle of up and down seasons.

- CW made a statement after the GT game about how they had practiced those blitzes 100 times...but still completely failed to execute in the game. Do we just say that the coach is still genius & the players blew it? Or do we say that somewhere perhaps the coaches didn't properly prepare? I'd lean toward the latter.

- All this to be said, I'm not calling for his head & I'm not saying he sucks...but at some point the diefication needs to slow down, yes? I'd say we have a good coach who is still learning things about the college game and head coaching it. Thankfully he appears to be one who is continually looking to learn, improve, and adjust. (I just hope one of the adjustments is a new O-line coach...unfortunately that won't happen this season...if at all)

- I'm really excited for the young guys to develop and the new talent to keep flowing in.

- But I'm glad to be 12,000mi away and not able to subject myself to this type of weekly pain.

Well...I rambled. Apologies.

Go Irish!

 

[jgrnd07]

OK...this is why I do not post on this board very often because if your not ALWAYS drinking the Koolaid you get attacked! Weis has been destroyed the last 4 games! The last (2) last year he had GREAT talent and it made no difference! I like how he is recruiting but he still has A LOT to prove and has did nothing in my eyes, yet! He has not won a big game, has not won a bowl game, and has not won a national championship. How he is so much different then the other knuckle heads we've had since Holtz left is beyond me! Please let this guy actually do something before giving him so much credit! The way it looks now we go 4-8 this year that means next year going 8-4 would be a huge turnaround...the next year if we are not in contention for a national chamionship Weis should be GONE!

 

[johnnd05]

I cannot believe I'm doing this ...

OK...this is why I do not post on this board very often because if your not ALWAYS drinking the Koolaid you get attacked!

For the billionth time, NOBODY IS SAYING WEIS (OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER) SHOULDN'T BE CRITICIZED. All that's being said is, first, that it should be done in a way that's respectful, and, second, that basically giving up on the guy, as you in particular seem to be doing, is foolish.

Weis has been destroyed the last 4 games!

True. Well actually, his TEAMS have been destroyed, but okay.

The last (2) last year he had GREAT talent and it made no difference!

The last two years he had some very good talent, true. But what do you mean, "it made no difference"? The guy won NINETEEN GAMES. We've beaten Michigan, Tennessee, UCLA, a then-top-25 Pitt team, Georgia Tech, Penn State, and we damn near beat SC in '05. We also scored a bajillion points pretty much week-in, week-out. This year, we've LOST to two teams we BEAT last year, and we've scored ZERO points on offense (as you are fond of reminding us) as opposed to a bajillion. What the HELL do you mean that there was "no difference" between his first two years and this one?

I like how he is recruiting but he still has A LOT to prove and has did nothing in my eyes, yet! He has not won a big game, has not won a bowl game, and has not won a national championship.

He's "did [sic!] nothing", huh? I'd say beating UM and Tennessee in '05 and UCLA, GT, and PSU last year were all pretty damn "big" games, and he nearly won the biggest one of them all against SC in '05. Yes, our bowl performances - especially last year - were inexcusable, but to say he's done NOTHING ... ?!

How he is so much different then the other knuckle heads we've had since Holtz left is beyond me!

Let's see ... Davie's records: 7-6, 9-3, 5-7, 9-3, 5-6. Willingham's records: 10-3, 5-7, 6-5. Weis: 9-3, 10-3, 0-2 (so far). So one thing he's done is win three more games in his first two seasons than Davie and four more than Willingham, and with less talent to boot (the cupboard was LOADED for Ty in those first two years). Another thing he's done is recruit a hell of a lot better than at least Ty did. A third thing he's done is shatter pretty much every ND offensive record. Need I go on?

Please let this guy actually do something before giving him so much credit!

See above.

The way it looks now we go 4-8 this year that means next year going 8-4 would be a huge turnaround...the next year if we are not in contention for a national chamionship Weis should be GONE!

I disagree that we'll go 4-8 this year; after the improvement I saw from week one to week two, I think we'll go 6-6 at least. If we go 4-8 I will be very disappointed. I think CW himself will tell you, though, that if we're not in NC contention in '09 he should be on the hot seat (didn't he actually EXPLICITLY say he should be fired if that is so?). But the problem is that YOU'RE ACTING LIKE THERE'S REASON TO BELIEVE THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

Two bad losses with a young squad against two very good teams does not a coaching failure make.

And with that, I'm done wasting my time with you.

 

[johnnd05]

I know I said I was done, but let me just finish piling on by summing up why I think Weis deserves some slack so far this year:

1. He went 9-3 and was a fourth-and-twelve miracle and a questionable call (not the "Bush Push", but the decision to reset the clock and let SC run one last play) away from going to the National Championship game in his first season (with a team that had gone 6-6 the year before, no less), and 10-3 the next.
2. He's clearly shown that when he can put experienced offensive talent on the field, he can put loads of points on the board.
3. He's currently fielding a team loaded with underclassmen and it's natural that they'll take some time to catch up to the CFB learning curve.
4. Our team looked a lot better on both sides of the ball - though not on special teams - this weekend than last.

If our offense gets shut down against MSU and Purdue - or even looks as bad against UM as it did these first two weeks - I'll be ready to criticize the guy more severely. At this point, though, the sort of impatience some of you have shown is just crazy.

 

[Newc]

John...Thank God there are still people on here with some common sense. I can't believe how this board has gotten after two losses to two top 25 teams.

I don't think anyone came into this season thinking we were a top 25 team, we are clearly rebuilding and got beaten by two pretty good teams, both with good defenses.

Ok, so we haven't scored any touchdowns with our incredibly young and almost completely inexpierenced offense, take solice in the fact that our D is looking very good and that our young and very highly touted QB has shown to have great poise and looks like he will be able to get the job done.

I can't believe how everyone is leaping from the bandwagon as fast as they can. Its been two games, against two top 25 teams, one of which has one of the best defenses in the NCAA, to expect this Notre Dame team to have gone 2-0 would have been very starry-eyed.

Now if we lose to teams like Stanford then by all means go nuts, but come on guys you can't blame a coach and damn a team for going 0-2 to start a season against this competition.

 

[johnnd05]

John...Thank God there are still people on here with some common sense. I can't believe how this board has gotten after two losses to two top 25 teams.

I don't think anyone came into this season thinking we were a top 25 team, we are clearly rebuilding and got beaten by two pretty good teams, both with good defenses.

Ok, so we haven't scored any touchdowns with our incredibly young and almost completely inexpierenced offense, take solice in the fact that our D is looking very good and that our young and very highly touted QB has shown to have great poise and looks like he will be able to get the job done.

I can't believe how everyone is leaping from the bandwagon as fast as they can. Its been two games, against two top 25 teams, one of which has one of the best defenses in the NCAA, to expect this Notre Dame team to have gone 2-0 would have been very starry-eyed.

Now if we lose to teams like Stanford then by all means go nuts, but come on guys you can't blame a coach and damn a team for going 0-2 to start a season against this competition.

Nice post. Two points, though:

1. It's not the 0-2 start itself, but the BADNESS of the losses that are getting people riled up. I still think they're overreacting, but it is worth pointing that out.
2. They're top FIFTEEN teams, and they BOTH have defenses among the best in the nation.

But like I said, nice post. You're a pretty smart guy for Sox fan.

 

[goldenlid]

I hope you guys didn't forget about the 04Penn st. team or the 05 UofM team, every team has growing pains so chill out and let this kids play and they will get better.

 

[jgrnd07]

ZERO OFFENSIVE TOUCHDOWNS IN 2 GAMES....after this year I believe Weis' record will be very similar to his replaces!!!!

OK...I have to know who else are we going to beat besides the 4 cupcakes at the end of the year? MSU, UCLA, BC, USC are going to DESTROY us!!! So, you think we will beat Michigan and Purdue with this squad? I say we get beat 24-10 this week, lose a close one to Purdue and beat who we are suppose to at the end of the year!

 

[johnnd05]

ZERO OFFENSIVE TOUCHDOWNS IN 2 GAMES....after this year I believe Weis' record will be very similar to his replaces!!!!

OK...I have to know who else are we going to beat besides the 4 cupcakes at the end of the year? MSU, UCLA, BC, USC are going to DESTROY us!!! So, you think we will beat Michigan and Purdue with this squad? I say we get beat 24-10 this week, lose a close one to Purdue and beat who we are suppose to at the end of the year!

Well, we'll just have to see who's right then. I think we'll beat at least Purdue, MSU, and the last four (if any of those six beats us, it will be Navy), and that we could very well beat any of UM, BC, and UCLA. But like I said, we'll see, and then we'll know how to compare him and his "replaces".

As to the offense: I think that our tremendous success over Weis's first two seasons gives MORE than enough reason to chalk many of our difficulties so far to youth, and to expect lots of improvement over the weeks to come (as we saw from GT to PSU). If you can't see that, then I don't know what to say to you ...

 

[Newc]

Yea you're right, our record won't look all that spectacular this year, but who can really fault this team for losing to a quality UCLA team, a BC team that is pretty powerful, USC...#1 does mean something and shootouts against teams like MSU, Michigan and Perdue.

I guess we could fill our schedules with cupcake teams, 1-AA teams or otherwise, but there is something to say for scheduling quality teams year in and year out, and yea, when you have a rebuilding year with very young players in key positions you are going to take your beatings. But I would much rather have a team weather these beatings and build a little character rather than blow by cupcake teams a do themselves an inservice when in a few years we expect this team to compete against the best for a National Championship.

Ok, I will agree, we look pretty pathetic right now, but I can't believe you guys are freaking out this much knowing the quality of teams we have played with the talent and experience that we have.

And what does happen if we pick one of those teams off that you have basically written us off against? Is Charlie once again a genious or is it pure luck? You can't have it both ways guys, this team will take its beatings and use this for years to come to develop into a quality time....Patience is a virtue!

 

[connor_in]

ZERO OFFENSIVE TOUCHDOWNS IN 2 GAMES....after this year I believe Weis' record will be very similar to his replaces!!!!

OK...I have to know who else are we going to beat besides the 4 cupcakes at the end of the year? MSU, UCLA, BC, USC are going to DESTROY us!!! So, you think we will beat Michigan and Purdue with this squad? I say we get beat 24-10 this week, lose a close one to Purdue and beat who we are suppose to at the end of the year!

{with all due apologies to the late Mr Cobain for bastardizing his lyrics}...sniff, sniff...smells like team spirit

 

[Sureal]

newc122 I said it before. That is why I read like your posts!!! You give pessimists like me hope.

Sureal---The sun is falling from the sky and is about to drop on us!!!

newc122---well wouldn't you think it would be neat if we all can get tans???