For the Weis apologists

[Timugen]

I have been 100% behind Charlie's decisions before this season, but you all need to stop defending him so blindly. My criticisms are not personal attacks on the man, just acknowledging the facts.

A DIVISION I-AA TEAM put up THIRTY-FOUR points on Michigan.

We have scored 6 points on offense in 2 games.


I could waste time and go to a CFB scoreboard and list all of the "have-nots" of CFB that have put up more points in game against comparable competition than we have all year, but I'll trust that you get my point.

Weis has proven to me that he is the furthest thing there is from an "offensive genius."

Hell, forget about scoring....how many 1st downs do we even have this year?

 

[johnnd05]

Weis has proven to me that he is the furthest thing there is from an "offensive genius."

How does this count as "acknowledging a fact" rather than making what is basically a personal attack?

 

[Timugen]

How does this count as "acknowledging a fact" rather than making what is basically a personal attack?

Easy.....we've scored 6 points in 2 games.....you do the math.

 

[Timugen]

How does this count as "acknowledging a fact" rather than making what is basically a personal attack?

And if that's your only criticism of that post then maybe should take a minute and think about why you didn't criticize any of the other points.

Again, I'm not trying to bash on CW here....but reality is reality.

 

[johnnd05]

Okay, whatever. I'm sick of getting into these arguments, but maybe I'll try ONE. LAST. TIME.

A DIVISION I-AA TEAM put up THIRTY-FOUR points on Michigan.

And we haven't played Michigan yet. Nor are we the designated "tune-up" game for a team that's clearly looking beyond us to the meat of their schedule. Nor do we run a goofy spread offense.

We have scored 6 points on offense in 2 games.

And the two teams we've played have given up a total of ZERO non-garbage-time points in their other two games. Oh, and they're ranked #15 and #12 in the nation, by the way, and were expected to be among its best defensive teams.

I could waste time and go to a CFB scoreboard and list all of the "have-nots" of CFB that have put up more points in game against comparable competition than we have all year, but I'll trust that you get my point.

Yeah, I do get it. Just tell me who among those teams is starting six true underclassmen on offense, with nearly all of their backups coming from freshmen and sophomores as well.

Weis has proven to me that he is the furthest thing there is from an "offensive genius."

Why - because he put up record offensive numbers in his first two years and is now struggling with a dreadful offensive line and a bunch of first-time players among his primary offensive weapons? What do you want him to do - get out there and block FOR the o-line?

Hell, forget about scoring....how many 1st downs do we even have this year?

22.

 

[johnnd05]

Easy.....we've scored 6 points in 2 games.....you do the math.

Oh, I see. 6/2=(not an offensive genius). Yeah, simple math. Not personal at all.

 

[johnnd05]

I should add: I've been really disappointed with how our team has performed, especially in the GT game, and I think CW deserves a lot of criticism for it. But to say that anything has been made "clear" about his not being a good coach, or offensive coordinator, or whatever, is just foolishness.

 

[Timugen]

Okay, whatever. I'm sick of getting into these arguments, but maybe I'll try ONE. LAST. TIME.



And we haven't played Michigan yet. Nor are we the designated "tune-up" game for a team that's clearly looking beyond us to the meat of their schedule. Nor do we run a goofy spread offense.



And the two teams we've played have given up a total of ZERO non-garbage-time points in their other two games. Oh, and they're ranked #15 and #12 in the nation, by the way, and were expected to be among its best defensive teams.



Yeah, I do get it. Just tell me who among those teams is starting six true underclassmen on offense, with nearly all of their backups coming from freshmen and sophomores as well.



Why - because he put up record offensive numbers in his first two years and is now struggling with a dreadful offensive line and a bunch of first-time players among his primary offensive weapons? What do you want him to do - get out there and block FOR the o-line?



22.

Wow. Way to make excuses.


Marshall......let me say that again....MARSHALL put up 23 points on WVU. Are we not even as good as Marshall? A team that wasn't even DIV I-A until about 10 years ago?

Marshall put up 23 vs. the #3 team in the nation.

Marshall belongs nowhere in a discussion about top 25 teams.

Marshall belongs nowhere in a discussion about top 50 teams.

We put up 6 points in 2 games.

Please stop your blind defense of CW.

Believe it or not, there actually is a reason that CW is catching shyte from everyone in the country except us (ND fans.)

 

[Timugen]

And as far as PSU goes....as soon as they face a team that isn't a cupcake or a Big 10 team they're gonna get rolled.

 

[johnnd05]

Wow. Way to make excuses.


Marshall......let me say that again....MARSHALL put up 23 points on WVU. Are we not even as good as Marshall? A team that wasn't even DIV I-A until about 10 years ago?

Marshall put up 23 vs. the #3 team in the nation.

Marshall belongs nowhere in a discussion about top 25 teams.

Marshall belongs nowhere in a discussion about top 50 teams.

We put up 6 points in 2 games.

Please stop your blind defense of CW.

Believe it or not, there actually is a reason that CW is catching shyte from everyone in the country except us (ND fans.)

West Virginia's defense is HORRENDOUS. I'll bet we'd put up some points against them, too.

There's nothing "blind" about what I'm saying. I see that we've got a bunch of kids out there, I saw a good deal of progress to this week from last, and I'm willing to give the man some freaking TIME to show us what he can get out of this team.

Oh, and I don't think there's ANYONE who could put up major points against those defenses with this o-line. And with that, I'm done with this argument.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I should add: I've been really disappointed with how our team has performed, especially in the GT game, and I think CW deserves a lot of criticism for it. But to say that anything has been made "clear" about his not being a good coach, or offensive coordinator, or whatever, is just foolishness.

I agree John. Good post.

 

[Ant4NDIrish]

I have been 100% behind Charlie's decisions before this season, but you all need to stop defending him so blindly. My criticisms are not personal attacks on the man, just acknowledging the facts.

A DIVISION I-AA TEAM put up THIRTY-FOUR points on Michigan.

We have scored 6 points on offense in 2 games.


I could waste time and go to a CFB scoreboard and list all of the "have-nots" of CFB that have put up more points in game against comparable competition than we have all year, but I'll trust that you get my point.

Weis has proven to me that he is the furthest thing there is from an "offensive genius."

Hell, forget about scoring....how many 1st downs do we even have this year?

What about the past two years! Was our offense in the top ten in about every offensive category? I think so! Get used to it this year because I dont care who is calling the plays we r only going to be as good as the o-line and they r struggling so far. Hopefuuly they will all get better as a unit and we will see what u r posting a year or two from now what a offensive genius we have as a coach. Everybody wants to gripe when it is not going so well, so go ahead and vent and take a chill pill. Go IRISH!!!!! National Championship is getting closer just be patient.

 

[Timugen]

I understand that our OL is young and inexperienced.

I understand that the 2 teams we have played so far have good defenses.

I also understand that SAMFORD scored 14 points on GT.


It's not like I'm pointing out a problem because we're not putting up 30 pts a game.......WE HAVE SCORED 6 POINTS IN 2 GAMES.

Our defense is outscoring our offense. Sound familiar?

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Are you boys done yet?

 

[piyachi]

A - I am a Weis fan and have been since minute one, so my post will reflect that....

Ok you want to know why Charlie Weis is an offensive Genius (of the robot variety)?

1 - In his first year of coaching Weis took an offense that averaged 24.4 points per game in the previous year and elevated that to 36.7 in his first year.

2 - During his tenure he has coached 27 games to date. Of these ND has scored under 20 points 5 times, 2 of those are the past 2 games.

3 - No coach in ND history has had to deal with the lack of upperclassmen that this team now faces. If you believe that he plays the best players (I do) then 31 underclassmen playing in the GT game is a factual sign of this. We have true freshman starting (or that 1a stuff) at QB, RB, WR.

4 - The development of Brady Quinn. Weis took a pretty average QB (I'd put him as comparable to Henne after his first 2 years with Ty) and helped develop him into a 1st round draft pick that should be starting for the Browns. Without Weis, it's pretty clear this never happens.

5 - Recruits buy Weis. JC came to ND because he believes what Charlie is selling. Maybe you are a secretly a stellar player, but if you aren't then I trust the opinions of the people who have that background. Are they really just buying a bunch of BS?

I'm not going to go further with these points because its unnecessary. Weis clearly has a lot of talent on the Offensive side of the ball. There is no need for alarm because the O has been anemic so far. These young guys will be racking up points like crazy as they develop.

 

[Timugen]

A - I am a Weis fan and have been since minute one, so my post will reflect that....

Ok you want to know why Charlie Weis is an offensive Genius (of the robot variety)?

1 - In his first year of coaching Weis took an offense that averaged 24.4 points per game in the previous year and elevated that to 36.7 in his first year.

2 - During his tenure he has coached 27 games to date. Of these ND has scored under 20 points 5 times, 2 of those are the past 2 games.

3 - No coach in ND history has had to deal with the lack of upperclassmen that this team now faces. If you believe that he plays the best players (I do) then 31 underclassmen playing in the GT game is a factual sign of this. We have true freshman starting (or that 1a stuff) at QB, RB, WR.

4 - The development of Brady Quinn. Weis took a pretty average QB (I'd put him as comparable to Henne after his first 2 years with Ty) and helped develop him into a 1st round draft pick that should be starting for the Browns. Without Weis, it's pretty clear this never happens.

5 - Recruits buy Weis. JC came to ND because he believes what Charlie is selling. Maybe you are a secretly a stellar player, but if you aren't then I trust the opinions of the people who have that background. Are they really just buying a bunch of BS?

I'm not going to go further with these points because its unnecessary. Weis clearly has a lot of talent on the Offensive side of the ball. There is no need for alarm because the O has been anemic so far. These young guys will be racking up points like crazy as they develop.

6 points in 2 games.

1st and goal on the 7..........FG.

Please take off the homer glasses (coming from a fellow homer.)

 

[The Polish Irishman]

I belive the gameplay put together by the coaches for the GT game was not well thought thru. GT players seemed to take better angles and did not extended drives by commiting bad penalties. GT had better players and a more complex gameplan that led their team to victory.

The PSU game, we played average on defense overall, probably because they were on the field the whole game. Paul Duncan struggled in this game, but hopefully we more coaching and experience he will improve. TT needs to stay on special teams, this is where he can help the team the most. In my opinion he should not get carries in the backfield for his lack of exposive speed and ability not the shake tacklers and go down on the first hit. Parris is stepping up. Laws looks great. I think the Captains need to step up. Is this pc enough?

Fact:

Notre Dame's averge loss under Charlie Weis-19 points(ouch). Weis does not make excusses, why should we?

 

[Timugen]

I'm not going to go further with these points because its unnecessary. Weis clearly has a lot of talent on the Offensive side of the ball. There is no need for alarm because the O has been anemic so far. These young guys will be racking up points like crazy as they develop.

I completely agree with this. Our future is bright. But if he's such a friggin' offensive genius, how does he only manage to muster 6 points in 2 games?

 

[MeanGreen]

CW inherited a bare cupboard, especially in the trenches. We have no back up for our D line and no offensive line. The two teams we played returned veteran o-lines and veteran D-lines. We did not lose to Georgia A & M or Kuntztown state. It is going to be a long year. I expect Michigan to do the same thing GT and PSU did and I expect the O to struggle until the line plays better. Take Ara and his best QB, Devine and his best QB and Lou and his best QB behind this line and I doubt it would be much different. Give CW the best o-line from those 3 coaches with Clausen, Thomas, Allen and our receivers and I have a feeling we are 2-0. Has CW made mistakes, yes he has but I feel he is still learning to be a college head coach. I think Pete Carrol struggled at USC until he got his players in place. Didn't Davie beat Pete?? I think more than once even!

 

[Timugen]

Weis does not make excusses, why should we?

Exactly.

 

[Timugen]

CW inherited a bare cupboard, especially in the trenches. We have no back up for our D line and no offensive line. The two teams we played returned veteran o-lines and veteran D-lines. We did not lose to Georgia A & M or Kuntztown state. It is going to be a long year. I expect Michigan to do the same thing GT and PSU did and I expect the O to struggle until the line plays better. Take Ara and his best QB, Devine and his best QB and Lou and his best QB behind this line and I doubt it would be much different. Give CW the best o-line from those 3 coaches with Clausen, Thomas, Allen and our receivers and I have a feeling we are 2-0. Has CW made mistakes, yes he has but I feel he is still learning to be a college head coach. I think Pete Carrol struggled at USC until he got his players in place. Didn't Davie beat Pete?? I think more than once even!

I don't want CW gone, but come on....SAMFORD scored more against GT than we did. Take off the homer glasses.

 

[sonomairishfan]

so what is your solution Tumugen? what plays should he be calling? with an o-line that struggles like ours, what plays should he call?

your points argument has no footing.

 

[Timugen]

so what is your solution Tumugen? what plays should he be calling? with an o-line that struggles like ours, what plays should he call?

your points argument has no footing.

Well here's one......if you need your QB to get rid of the ball quickly and the hitch and swing passes are getting shoved down your throat for the millionth friggin time......at least TRY a quick slant. At least with that the receiver already has momentum when he catches the ball and we're not counting on him to be able to "juke" 3 defenders to get past the line of scrimmage.

Next.

 

[sonomairishfan]

so how does that produce points? slants do take a bit of time to develope and as we all know, the qb's haven't had time. and you want a slant while there are 8 men in the box? most slants seem to be thrown towards the slot reciever and that is in the box correct?

 

[Timugen]

so how does that produce points? slants do take a bit of time to develope and as we all know, the qb's haven't had time. and you want a slant while there are 8 men in the box? most slants seem to be thrown towards the slot reciever and that is in the box correct?

Most slants, but not all. There is no reason you couldn't throw a slant to a wideout in that situation. You have actually given the exact reasons why you should. There are 8 in the box...great. The wideout is 1-on-1 with the corner. So, do we:

1. Dump it off to him in the flat with the corner in front of him and count on him to make Sportscenter.

or

2. Have him run a slant where he catches the ball on the run and at least has a chance of getting away from that corner (and he doesn't have to worry so much about those pesky LB's since they're up in the box trying to kill the QB.)

 

[Jason Pham]

so how does that produce points? slants do take a bit of time to develope and as we all know, the qb's haven't had time. and you want a slant while there are 8 men in the box? most slants seem to be thrown towards the slot reciever and that is in the box correct?

Quick slants develop quickly. Typically involving the X and/or Y receiver, but not unusual to also include a slot receiver, the receiver takes at most 3 strides downfield before slanting in towards the middle. If a defense loads the box up and blitzes, by the time the quarterback has dropped back, typically a 3 step drop, a receiver in the slant should have completed his cut and be open for a decent chunk of yards. A perfect example of this is readily available on Clausen's debut against Georgia Tech video on Youtube. The WLB creeps up showing blitz and Clausen hits Kamara on a quick slant where the blitzing linebacker used to be.

Of course, quick slants, if the defense knows it is coming, is easily countered by dropping back into coverage in the passing lanes.

That's my understanding anyway, anyone with any real knowledge, please feel free to correct me.

EDIT: Timugen beat me to it. Great post.

 

[Timugen]

slants do take a bit of time to develope

???????????????

 

[ndftbl]

Why do you assume people are blindly supporting Weis?

Why do you assume people are blindly supporting Weis?

Do you really think we are that stupid?

 

[fitz_bu47]

The guys we are playing w/ right now are for the most part boys....but if we are patient they will soon be men and I will feel sorry for Penn St. and the like then.

 

[fitz_bu47]

Also fellas, the bashing of the o-line is deserving as far as the run game goes, but in the GT game and the PSU game a lot of the sacks were from our QB's holding on to the ball too long. If you run a play w/ a three step drop w/ the o-line chopping the d-line to get their hands down the Qb's have to get rid of it--period. If it is covered they have to throw it into the ground towards the receiver, our QB's so far this season have unfortuneatly chosen to eat it. That too will come w/ experience.