Fire Weis (Merged - Stop Creating New Threads)

[NDMontana]

He said what he should have said. He challenged his team to do better.

You are just being silly.

Are you new to ND fanhood or have you been around for the last five years? 22 losses followed by Weis challenging the team. Their response has been to compile the most losses in a two year span in the history of the school.

 

[jason_h537]

What this team does next week will determine how they do for the remainder of the season.

Exactly. That will determine the passion ofthe players as well as Weis's worth as a coach.

 

[Riddickulous]

You knew to ND fanhood or have you been around for the last five years? 22 losses and he always challenges the team. Their response has been to compile the most losses in a two year span in the history of the school.

Charlie is a silent motivator. He asks his team to "show me". His motivating strategy is basically, "Do it yourself." Our players cannot answer that call.

We need a young, fiery, charismatic coach who can get right up in the faces of our players, get vocal, jump around a little bit, and get them fired up.

 

[NDMontana]

Charlie is a silent motivator. He asks his team to "show me". His motivating strategy is basically, "Do it yourself." Our players cannot answer that call.

We need a young, fiery, charismatic coach who can get right up in the faces of our players, get vocal, jump around a little bit, and get them fired up.

That may be the case. The problem I have is that I can't advocate firing Weis because that might leave the team in a worse position. Although it's worth saying that retaining Weis has made the Willingham firing untenable.

 

[Riddickulous]

That may be the case. The problem I have is that I can't advocate firing Weis because that might leave the team in a worse position. Although it's worth saying that retaining Weis has made the Willingham firing untenable.

A Weis firing would definitely cause some problems. No doubt. Team morale, transfers, lost recruits.

The best case scenario, other than Weis proving everybody wrong and smoking the competition, is Weis leaving after 2010, when a lot of our starters are gone.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

I have been up in the mountains at my cabin all weekend, so this is my first post after the pain of yesterday.

I ran a half marathon in the morning (actually talked trash to some Michigan fans during the race) and made it home in time for kick off. I was in a lot of physical pain, but nothing compared to the pain I felt during the game.

Here is the ironic part of my story: On ND's final drive, after their first two plays, the guy pull up outside my house to drain my septic tank - it was almost ready to overflow - so I didn't see the two horrible pass plays in question (no DVR up at my cabin) and I also didn't see Michigan's game winning drive. Why because I was out with the guy pumping the shit! Does anyone else see the irony here?

The shit of the game or the shit outside? Anyone? Anyone?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

lol. That's a shitty story.

 

[phork]

Man that stinks.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Sounds like the shit hit the fan...

 

[Junkhead]

I have been up in the mountains at my cabin all weekend, so this is my first post after the pain of yesterday.

I ran a half marathon in the morning (actually talked trash to some Michigan fans during the race) and made it home in time for kick off. I was in a lot of physical pain, but nothing compared to the pain I felt during the game.

Here is the ironic part of my story: On ND's final drive, after their first two plays, the guy pull up outside my house to drain my septic tank - it was almost ready to overflow - so I didn't see the two horrible pass plays in question (no DVR up at my cabin) and I also didn't see Michigan's game winning drive. Why because I was out with the guy pumping the shit! Does anyone else see the irony here?

The shit of the game or the shit outside? Anyone? Anyone?

lol tried to rep, no luck. Have to spread it around, blah blah

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Exactly. That will determine the passion ofthe players as well as Weis's worth as a coach.

Really! Next week?
If we lose next week what will you have seen from now until then that will make you see that Charlie is not the guy for the job?

I'M TIRED OF WAITING FOR THE NEXT GAME, HE'S IN HIS 5TH EFFIN YEAR!

Just my opinion but if it hasn't happened by now I don't think it's going to.

 

[kmoose]

Although it's worth saying that retaining Weis has made the Willingham firing untenable.

The "Willingham debacle", at Washington, is more than enough to validate the decision to can Willingham.

 

[jason_h537]

Really! Next week?
If we lose next week what will you have seen from now until then that will make you see that Charlie is not the guy for the job?

I'M TIRED OF WAITING FOR THE NEXT GAME, HE'S IN HIS 5TH EFFIN YEAR!

Just my opinion but if it hasn't happened by now I don't think it's going to.

Maybe because i have realistic expectations for the team.

Weis maximized the talent we had for his first 2 years.

Everyone should have expected a terrible season in 07 and people still wanted Weis fired after that.

The team showed improvement and shit last year. Should the team have performed better in 08 yes but i still felt weis should get a 5th year.

Now we lost a game, we were never going to go undefeated and Weis can either throw in the towel, give up and wait to be fired or turn it around.

If it were upto the fans we would have a new coachevery two years. People wanted Holtz fired too

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Maybe because i have realistic expectations for the team.

Weis maximized the talent we had for his first 2 years.

Everyone should have expected a terrible season in 07 and people still wanted Weis fired after that.

The team showed improvement and shit last year. Should the team have performed better in 08 yes but i still felt weis should get a 5th year.

Now we lost a game, we were never going to go undefeated and Weis can either throw in the towel, give up and wait to be fired or turn it around.

If it were upto the fans we would have a new coachevery two years. People wanted Holtz fired too

When every ones expectations meet with reality you let me know ok. I'll be patiently waiting.

 

[irishfan]

Really! Next week?
If we lose next week what will you have seen from now until then that will make you see that Charlie is not the guy for the job?

I'M TIRED OF WAITING FOR THE NEXT GAME, HE'S IN HIS 5TH EFFIN YEAR!

Just my opinion but if it hasn't happened by now I don't think it's going to.

We'll see how this team bounces back from defeat. In Weis' first 3 losses ND responded by winning the next game. Everyone wants our teams to achieve the success of the 05 and 06 teams. This next game will see if we are at that stage or not. That's what rational ND fans are waiting to see next week.

 

[NDMontana]

The "Willingham debacle", at Washington, is more than enough to validate the decision to can Willingham.

ND's administration, at that time, had no idea that TW would go onto fail at Washington. The criteria was that he'd lost too many games and hadn't recruited well. According to all of the publications I've seen CW has recruited well and is still losing. In my opinion CW is actually doing a poorer job....he's losing with good players.

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

I still like Weis. Defense--- please step up and make a play. Just one time. I was waiting for a pick-6 all day and i honestly felt it was going to happen. It was just one of those games that could have gone either way and this time it didnt go their way. Michigan rose to the occasion at home. If that game is at home ND wins by 2 touchdowns. USC gets challenged and they rise to the occasion and escape with a W on the road. Just annoys me because that game was so winable and it would have been nice to escape with a win and then they could use it as a wake up call. Now its like they will be playing for another standard bowl game.


but if Charlie gets the boot, do I change my name?

 

[BGIF]

I still like Weis. Defense--- please step up and make a play. Just one time. I was waiting for a pick-6 all day and i honestly felt it was going to happen. It was just one of those games that could have gone either way and this time it didnt go their way. Michigan rose to the occasion at home. If that game is at home ND wins by 2 touchdowns. USC gets challenged and they rise to the occasion and escape with a W on the road. Just annoys me because that game was so winable and it would have been nice to escape with a win and then they could use it as a wake up call. Now its like they will be playing for another standard bowl game.


but if Charlie gets the boot, do I change my name?

Weis2NFL

 

[BGIF]

I have been up in the mountains at my cabin all weekend, so this is my first post after the pain of yesterday.

I ran a half marathon in the morning (actually talked trash to some Michigan fans during the race) and made it home in time for kick off. I was in a lot of physical pain, but nothing compared to the pain I felt during the game.

Here is the ironic part of my story: On ND's final drive, after their first two plays, the guy pull up outside my house to drain my septic tank - it was almost ready to overflow - so I didn't see the two horrible pass plays in question (no DVR up at my cabin) and I also didn't see Michigan's game winning drive. Why because I was out with the guy pumping the shit! Does anyone else see the irony here?

The shit of the game or the shit outside? Anyone? Anyone?

If the name on the honey wagon was BILL LEMONIER. You got the same hose job ND did.

 

[BGIF]

Charlie is a silent motivator. He asks his team to "show me". His motivating strategy is basically, "Do it yourself." Our players cannot answer that call.

We need a young, fiery, charismatic coach who can get right up in the faces of our players, get vocal, jump around a little bit, and get them fired up.

Changing your name from ClausentoFloyd to Orgeron4ND?

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

IMO there were several reasons we lost the game, any of which could have decisively changed the outcome.

Dropped passes.
Bad Calls,
Not forcing Mich to call time out.
Poor defense.
Poor Punting, and poor kicking
Poor kick return coverage

The offense played well, for most of the game, yes CW called a couple of risky plays. that if complete would have kept the clock running, but they weren't. Even if you don't gain a yard the clock continues to run after after a running play, unless someone calls time out. If know one calls time out then then at least 11 seconds will run off before the next play. Michigan saved way more than 11 seconds by having 2 TO's left. In fact if we had simply downed the ball we would have left Michigan with 0 TO's (I am not advocating that we had done this but the indisputable fact remains; Michigan would not of had the time to mount the drive they did without the help of the TO's) Does that mean they would not have thrown a bomb and still won? We will never know.

 

[PADOMERNUT]

IMO there were several reasons we lost the game, any of which could have decisively changed the outcome.

Dropped passes.
Bad Calls,
Not forcing Mich to call time out.
Poor defense.
Poor Punting, and poor kicking
Poor kick return coverage

The offense played well, for most of the game, yes CW called a couple of risky plays. that if complete would have kept the clock running, but they weren't. Even if you don't gain a yard the clock continues to run after after a running play, unless someone calls time out. If know one calls time out then then at least 11 seconds will run off before the next play. Michigan saved way more than 11 seconds by having 2 TO's left. In fact if we had simply downed the ball we would have left Michigan with 0 TO's (I am not advocating that we had done this but the indisputable fact remains; Michigan would not of had the time to mount the drive they did without the help of the TO's) Does that mean they would not have thrown a bomb and still won? We will never know.

With no timeouts UM would have run their last drive differently. And our defense proved that we could not stop them in the 2nd half. Our best bet was to try to get a first down, and that is what we did

 

[The Polish Irishman]

Anyone realize we are 11-18 in the last 29 games?

 

[aaronb]

This team can still go 10-2 fairly easily.

Will everyone be bitching in January if we end up 10-2? My gut says that some people still will.

ND, hasn't been ND since the 40's/50's. It's not realistic to expect NC's and undefeated season's every year. Charlie has recruited well and has us in a position to be an elite program.

Other than Lou Holtz's 5 year window (88-93) when has ND been this loaded with talent? The Devine era of the late 70's? The Ara era?

Bottom line is that ND is a strict academic institution in bumblef#*k Indiana. To compare the football program to Florida and USC isn't really an apples to apples comparason.

 

[BGIF]

This team can still go 10-2 fairly easily.

Will everyone be bitching in January if we end up 10-2? My gut says that some people still will.

ND, hasn't been ND since the 40's/50's. It's not realistic to expect NC's and undefeated season's every year. Charlie has recruited well and has us in a position to be an elite program.

Other than Lou Holtz's 5 year window (88-93) when has ND been this loaded with talent?

The Devine era of the late 70's? The Ara era?

Bottom line is that ND is a strict academic institution in bumblef#*k Indiana. To compare the football program to Florida and USC isn't really an apples to apples comparason.

The Faust Years were recruiting bonanza's. I believe he had 3 #1 Classes. ND's last Heisman winner was a Faust Recruit.

Vinny's Cerrato was a full time recruiting coordinator for Holtz from '86 to '90. Vinny's "last class" played their final year for the '93 Irish.

Both Ara and Devine had talent. A kid named Joe Montana was 5th string.

Up until Holtz ND coaches didn't have to deal with 85/25 scholarship rules.

Leahy's recruiting class in '46 is considered ND's All-Time Best.

ND, hasn't been ND since the 40's/50's.

When Rockne died, the Administration hired a lesser coach and eliminated scholarships.

When Leahy was force to retire, the Administration hired a two lesser coaches and eliminated scholarships.

Ara turned down the job in his first interview until the Administration made some concessions.

After the Parshegian/Devine runs, the Administration hired high school football coach with no college coaching experience.

After the Faust debacle, the Administration hired Holtz. But now the NCAA had scholarship limits.

When Holtz was pushed out, the Administration hired a series of lesser coaches. Meanwhile the GPAs/SATs of the student body was raised dramatically through the 80's and 90's. Monk continued the work of Fr Hesburgh raising the academic bar for the entire student body. Today average ND freshman has an SAT score over 1350 (2 parts) and graduated in the Top 5% of their class. Their are no cake majors for athletes to be "hidden" in.

 

[PADOMERNUT]

This team can still go 10-2 fairly easily.

Will everyone be bitching in January if we end up 10-2? My gut says that some people still will.
ND, hasn't been ND since the 40's/50's. It's not realistic to expect NC's and undefeated season's every year. Charlie has recruited well and has us in a position to be an elite program.

Other than Lou Holtz's 5 year window (88-93) when has ND been this loaded with talent? The Devine era of the late 70's? The Ara era?

Bottom line is that ND is a strict academic institution in bumblef#*k Indiana. To compare the football program to Florida and USC isn't really an apples to apples comparason.

We could go 12-0 and people will still bitch

 

[BGIF]

We could go 12-0 and people will still bitch

When I came to Notre Dame, the fans told me, 'We're with you, WIN OR TIE!'

When the NCAA went to The Overtime Rule the fans told me, 'We're with you, WIN!'

When we won the National Championship, the fans told me, "We don't expect you just to win, we expect you to win BIG!"

Lou Holtz

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

With no timeouts UM would have run their last drive differently. And our defense proved that we could not stop them in the 2nd half. Our best bet was to try to get a first down, and that is what we did

I agree, of course you always try to get a first down. If ND had kept the ball for the remainder of the game the we obviously win. Having two TO's definitely changes your offensive play calling, but we seemed to have a problem with Torcier's scrambling and either finding a check down receiver or just simply running. I give the kid all the credit he made the plays he had too.

Also you assume two conclusions:

1. We would not have gotten a 1st down by running.
2. Michigan would have scored regardless of whether they had no TO's.

As I attempted to convey in my earlier post;

Q1. With no TO's, Would Michigan have scored anyway on a long pass?
A1. It is quite possible.

Q2. Could we have gotten a 1st down by running?
A2. Again, it is possible.

Mind you, I realize the first pass was in hopes of catching them napping expecting the run.
The second was because when the 1st pass was incomplete it was third and 10 and that definitely was the prudent call.

I recall during the Holtz Era, Miami had Tony Rice backed up in the end zone (If memory serves about two yards from the back of the end zone.) when he let it fly, it completely caught Miami off guard thinking we would stay conservative. The only difference then was that it was a completion and the call was genius. If the 1st pass had been caught and broken for a TD everyone would be saying what a great call. I was only trying to point out that fact does not negate the other issues I mentioned.

 

[aaronb]

I agree, of course you always try to get a first down. If ND had kept the ball for the remainder of the game the we obviously win. Having two TO's definitely changes your offensive play calling, but we seemed to have a problem with Torcier's scrambling and either finding a check down receiver or just simply running. I give the kid all the credit he made the plays he had too.

Also you assume two conclusions:

1. We would not have gotten a 1st down by running.
2. Michigan would have scored regardless of whether they had no TO's.

As I attempted to convey in my earlier post;

Q1. With no TO's, Would Michigan have scored anyway on a long pass?
A1. It is quite possible.

Q2. Could we have gotten a 1st down by running?
A2. Again, it is possible.

Mind you, I realize the first pass was in hopes of catching them napping expecting the run.
The second was because when the 1st pass was incomplete it was third and 10 and that definitely was the prudent call.

I recall during the Holtz Era, Miami had Tony Rice backed up in the end zone (If memory serves about two yards from the back of the end zone.) when he let it fly, it completely caught Miami off guard thinking we would stay conservative. The only difference then was that it was a completion and the call was genius. If the 1st pass had been caught and broken for a TD everyone would be saying what a great call. I was only trying to point out that fact does not negate the other issues I mentioned.

What everyone seems to miss is that we only had a 3 point lead. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME. Why even put Michigan in a position to win or tie with a FG?

Weis made a strong call to go for the jungular. It didn't turn out this time. Still better than the 3 plays into the line and punt/play defense that we see far too often.

The people bitching right now are the same people who will bitch regardless.

 

[PADOMERNUT]

I agree, of course you always try to get a first down. If ND had kept the ball for the remainder of the game the we obviously win. Having two TO's definitely changes your offensive play calling, but we seemed to have a problem with Torcier's scrambling and either finding a check down receiver or just simply running. I give the kid all the credit he made the plays he had too.

Also you assume two conclusions:

1. We would not have gotten a 1st down by running.
2. Michigan would have scored regardless of whether they had no TO's.

As I attempted to convey in my earlier post;

Q1. With no TO's, Would Michigan have scored anyway on a long pass?
A1. It is quite possible.

Q2. Could we have gotten a 1st down by running?
A2. Again, it is possible.
Mind you, I realize the first pass was in hopes of catching them napping expecting the run.
The second was because when the 1st pass was incomplete it was third and 10 and that definitely was the prudent call.

I recall during the Holtz Era, Miami had Tony Rice backed up in the end zone (If memory serves about two yards from the back of the end zone.) when he let it fly, it completely caught Miami off guard thinking we would stay conservative. The only difference then was that it was a completion and the call was genius. If the 1st pass had been caught and broken for a TD everyone would be saying what a great call. I was only trying to point out that fact does not negate the other issues I mentioned.

You are right, it is possible. But remember a few things. Armando Allen had just limped off the field. Jonas Gray had already fumbled in the game, and Robert Hughes had exactly 1 carry, tough situation to put him in. Also Michigan was stacking the box. I think the percentages favor doing what he did. That is our strength. Hindsight is 20/20. But the fact remains that if we ran 3 times and UM used all their timeouts, but still went down the field to win, people would be bitching about Weis being too conservative.