December 7, 1941

[calvegas04]

People don't realize how dominant of a force the Imperial Japanese Navy was until the end of 1943 into 44. Especially in surface action

I don't think we "won" a surface action until late 43. We had no clue the capabilities of their Long Lance torpedo's, their night optics were nearly as good as our radar and they were fearless.

If you are into that kind of stuff, one of my favorite books is "Neptune's Inferno" <---link.

Wonderful insight and read for us nerds

Battle of Midway was in 1942 and a massive US victory

 

[dublinirish]

little historical overview of the attack from a YouTube channel I’ve always enjoyed




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[StPaul_Irish]

Another fun fact. US radar pickets picked up the planes. The officer in charge dismissed it as a flight of B-17s. Despite the fact they were coming from the west.

Husband Kimmel lost his command...to Nimitz, his close friend.

Another fun fact. Nimitz gets more press, but he was only the commander of the Pacific fleet. Adm. Ernest King was calling the shots as the top Navy man.

I'm a bigger nerd then I am smart ass lol

Also this has been my favorite reading , post I've had on IE. Thanks fellas

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Battle of Midway was in 1942 and a massive US victory

That's was an air battle, not a surface action ie, ship on ship

and many consider Midway a "strategic victory" not an overwhelming one, but your point stands, and I agree

 

[dublinirish]

Crazy how some of the ships damaged at Pearl Harbor were repaired and then were sent to the European theater and participated in the D-Day landings


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[Greenore]

Another fun fact. US radar pickets picked up the planes. The officer in charge dismissed it as a flight of B-17s. Despite the fact they were coming from the west.

Husband Kimmel lost his command...to Nimitz, his close friend.

Another fun fact. Nimitz gets more press, but he was only the commander of the Pacific fleet. Adm. Ernest King was calling the shots as the top Navy man.

I'm a bigger nerd then I am smart ass lol

Also this has been my favorite reading , post I've had on IE. Thanks fellas

And... the USS Ward had sunk and reported a Japanese mini-sub at the entrance to Pearl well before the strikes. Apparently, the report was largely if not entirely ignored by the brass. I believe it was in the early stages of the attack that the USS Monaghan also sunk a mini sub in or in the vicinity of the harbor.

According to the podcast you supplied (thanks again), the oil storage tanks were, unbelievably, NOT an intended target of the air attacks. If they had been hit it is speculated that it would have setback naval operations by 6-12 months... mainly to fabricate new tanks and infrastructure.

Just a lot of luck... good and bad. Really interesting stuff.

I can't help but note, as is exemplified in this thread, how politics drives us apart and yet a war brings us together! Really appreciate the sharing of information and history. Great thread-start Irish#1!!

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Crazy how some of the ships damaged at Pearl Harbor were repaired and then were sent to the European theater and participated in the D-Day landings


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The USS West Virginia participated in the shelling of mainland Japan after being raised. The Mississippi was a Surigao Strait beat the hell out of the center fleet.

 

[Irish#1]

Crazy how some of the ships damaged at Pearl Harbor were repaired and then were sent to the European theater and participated in the D-Day landings


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Wish I could remember where I read it so I could share it, but it talked about how the survivors were immediately after the attack taking action to put out fires and get the entrance to the bay open so they could begin getting the ships up out of the water for repairs. A massive effort in itself.

 

[Irish#1]

Not related to Pearl Harbor, but my FIL was in the Normandy invasion. He was in one of those gliders that crashed behind German lines. He survived the crash and later received a medal for taking command of his unit after his captain was wounded and holding off the Germans for a day until they could be rescued. RIP Bob.

 

[BilboBaggins]

People don't realize how dominant of a force the Imperial Japanese Navy was until the end of 1943 into 44. Especially in surface action

I don't think we "won" a surface action until late 43. We had no clue the capabilities of their Long Lance torpedo's, their night optics were nearly as good as our radar and they were fearless.

If you are into that kind of stuff, one of my favorite books is "Neptune's Inferno" <---link.

Wonderful insight and read for us nerds

Not sure I really agree with this. The Japanese knew they were going to lose, but hoped they could win numerical superiority (and then defeating new ships as they came off the line) by trapping the US into a decisive battle. So much of their navy sat in harbors 1) preserving precious fuel and 2) waiting for the decisive battle.

I don't really know many naval scholars who would describe the IJN as "dominant." They were an extremely formidable foe but initiative was lost six months after Pearl Harbor at Midway and never regained by the Japanese.

My grandfather was transferred from the Lexington to the Laffey and was at Guadalcanal. Highest ranking survivor its sinking. He said the ship passed by the Japanese so close that if he had a hand grenade he could have thrown in onto their ship. Pretty fucking wild to think about. You did *not* want to engage with the Japanese in a night battle, they were exceptional.

But simply put, the war was over the moment the Japanese realized the aircraft carriers weren't at Pearl Harbor.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Not sure I really agree with this. The Japanese knew they were going to lose, but hoped they could win numerical superiority (and then defeating new ships as they came off the line) by trapping the US into a decisive battle. So much of their navy sat in harbors 1) preserving precious fuel and 2) waiting for the decisive battle.

I don't really know many naval scholars who would describe the IJN as "dominant." They were an extremely formidable foe but initiative was lost six months after Pearl Harbor at Midway and never regained by the Japanese.

My grandfather was transferred from the Lexington to the Laffey and was at Guadalcanal. Highest ranking survivor its sinking. He said the ship passed by the Japanese so close that if he had a hand grenade he could have thrown in onto their ship. Pretty fucking wild to think about. You did *not* want to engage with the Japanese in a night battle, they were exceptional.

But simply put, the war was over the moment the Japanese realized the aircraft carriers weren't at Pearl Harbor.

Mostly agree. 2nd half of 43 is more accurate. Until then other then Norman Scott at Cape Espressence and maybe Willis Lee 2nd battle of Guadalcanal both tactical victories could you call it anything but a Japanese domination of the sea. They wouldn't fight us during the day, they lost the advantage of tactics and their night optics.

 

[irishnd31]

Another fun fact. US radar pickets picked up the planes. The officer in charge dismissed it as a flight of B-17s. Despite the fact they were coming from the west.

Husband Kimmel lost his command...to Nimitz, his close friend.

Another fun fact. Nimitz gets more press, but he was only the commander of the Pacific fleet. Adm. Ernest King was calling the shots as the top Navy man.

I'm a bigger nerd then I am smart ass lol

Also this has been my favorite reading , post I've had on IE. Thanks fellas

Than you pal. Have enjoyed all posts including yours my friend. Appreciate your info

 

[Irish#1]

Not sure I really agree with this. The Japanese knew they were going to lose, but hoped they could win numerical superiority (and then defeating new ships as they came off the line) by trapping the US into a decisive battle. So much of their navy sat in harbors 1) preserving precious fuel and 2) waiting for the decisive battle.

I don't really know many naval scholars who would describe the IJN as "dominant." They were an extremely formidable foe but initiative was lost six months after Pearl Harbor at Midway and never regained by the Japanese.

My grandfather was transferred from the Lexington to the Laffey and was at Guadalcanal. Highest ranking survivor its sinking. He said the ship passed by the Japanese so close that if he had a hand grenade he could have thrown in onto their ship. Pretty fucking wild to think about. You did *not* want to engage with the Japanese in a night battle, they were exceptional.

But simply put, the war was over the moment the Japanese realized the aircraft carriers weren't at Pearl Harbor.

This is similar to what I have read. The Japanese wanted the attack on Pearl Harbor to be a surprise because they knew their only chance to defeat the U.S. was with a maneuver like this. The carriers not in dock and the Japanese not sending that final wave are two critical pieces that helped shape the strategy going forward. It should be noted, that Yamamoto didn't want to attack the U.S. because he felt Japan couldn't win a war with the U.S. He was overruled.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

This is a great thread gentlemen. Thank you.

 

[Irish#1]

Folks, time again to remember and say a prayer.

 

[Irish#1]