Dan Devine

[ND Lifer]

When all the "great coaches" at ND are mentioned, you always hear about Rockne, Ara, Leahy and Lou. Dan Devine had a very good run of something like 58-16-1 and coached Montana, among others. He won a national champioship. What is it that keeps him from being mentioned along with all of the above?

I admit he had a very droll personality and that the ND administration did not particularly like that he had "Devine" on the back of his jacket, rather than the "ND" logo. However, the record should speak for itself. Just was wondering if anyone has any insight on this.

Also, let's hope Charlie ends up with the "great ND coaches" when he decides to hang them up.

 

[Irish Envy]

I'm not sure this is an answerable question, but if I had to venture a guess it is the middle child syndrome. You know, say you have three children and no matter what or how things are handled, the middle child always seems to feel left out. I think that is the case with Devine.

Devine was not only successful at Notre Dame, but also at his previous jobs aside from his brief stint with the Packers. He coached for 22 years and amassed a 172-57-9 record, a nice .742 winning percentage. Any guy that wins nearly 75% of the games he coached in is special.

He is a college football HoFer and deservedly so. So I don't know if that answers your question, but that is my guess.

 

[Aerosmith777]

I've always thought that w/ ND coaches there was kind of a class system. At the very top are Knute Rockne and Ara, and I always go back and forth on whether or not I put Leahy all the way up w/ them, or just behind them in a class by himself. Behind those three there is kind of like a 2nd (or 3rd, depending on where you put Leahy) tier that consists of Lou and Dan Devine. One of the things that I've always felt kept the two of them behind the others is that they both only won 1 championship (unless you count 1993...). And, even more importantly than that, neither got their start at Notre Dame, but both were fairly well known in the coaching world before being hired by the Irish, having both coached pro teams and other Div-1 college teams.

Charlie's certainly got the potential to be up there in that upper echelon. He's really forging his legacy at Notre Dame having never been a head coach before, and he certainly looks like he's got a chance to go all the way a few times in his career w/ the kind of recruiting he's doing. Time will tell. For now, I'm just happy for a 9-2 season and a BCS bowl appearance.

 

[Domer95]

I've talked to my father about this and he believes that the consensus was 1) DD WASN'T Ara.... 2) his personality (a bit harshly depicted in "Rudy" and he said as much). He SHOULD get the love from the ND Nation, as he did win an NC and did coach the greatest QB of all time.

Maybe history will be kinder to him after CDub has hung them up (and added a few NCs and Heismans to the trophy case....) and people reflect on the great ND coaches

 

[Aerosmith777]

2) his personality (a bit harshly depicted in "Rudy" and he said as much).

yeah, I always wondered what that was about? I think the filmmakers thought they needed some sort of a "bad guy" at the end of the film to kind of be the image of all the people that had tried to hold Rudy back and be the kind of last person Rudy has to "overcome" at the end. Dan just kinda got the short end of the stick of it being him.

 

[BGIF]

Devine lost 1 less game than Ara did in 5 less seasons.

Ara was 3-6-2 against USC. Devine only beat the Trojans once in 6 tries.

Some ND fans still think Montana would have won 4 Heisman's if Devine had only let him start.

Had Devine followed Kuharich(Devore) he would have received the acclaim Parshegian and Holtz did following Kuharich and Faust, and to some degree Leahy did, for the bona fide "Return To Glory" eras.

Devine's place in ND lore was established long before Hollywood made him Rudy's protagonist.

 

[jiggafini19]

Dan Devine was portrayed VERY unfairly in Rudy. That is the only part about that film that I didn't like.

That part with the jerseys on his desk? NEVER happened.

Rockne, Leahy, Ara, Devine, Holtz. He needs to be included in that breath.

 

[Aerosmith777]

eh, I still think there's a dicotomy between the guys who won multiple titles and forged their legacy solely at ND, and the ones who were already famous coaches and only won 1.

Not saying Devine wasn't a great coach, but I think the Irish masses will never have the same kind of pope-like holy awe they display toward Rokne, Ara, and maybe Leahy too for those reasons.

 

[IrishfaninLA]

I've always thought that w/ ND coaches there was kind of a class system. At the very top are Knute Rockne and Ara, and I always go back and forth on whether or not I put Leahy all the way up w/ them, or just behind them in a class by himself. Behind those three there is kind of like a 2nd (or 3rd, depending on where you put Leahy)

Man, I don't know where you have been; But you have to give Leahy the credit he deserves!!!
Rockne won 3 national titles
Ara won 2 national titles
Leahy won 5 national titles!!!!
From 1946 to 1949 Notre Dame never lost a game! Sure, they tied some but they where never beat. In 1948 scUM won the national title, even though Notre Dame had the same record. They (the AP) did not want Notre Dame to win the national title three years in a row. Today when the press idolizes SC they never mention that Notre Dame was there 50 years prior. Instead Notre Dame won the National title the following year going 10-0 and winning the national title three out of four years!!!
Similar to Weis, Leahy would never run the score up on an opponent. He believed it was poor sportsmanship and gave the opponent motivation for the next time they played.
In the 1930"s after Rockne's death Notre Dame had become an average football team. Leahy took over and within his third year had returned Notre Dame to national prominence with a national title.
Leahy is with out a doubt up there with Rockne!

 

[Aerosmith777]

Man, I don't know where you have been; But you have to give Leahy the credit he deserves!!!
Rockne won 3 national titles
Ara won 2 national titles
Leahy won 5 national titles!!!!
From 1946 to 1949 Notre Dame never lost a game! Sure, they tied some but they where never beat. In 1948 scUM won the national title, even though Notre Dame had the same record. They (the AP) did not want Notre Dame to win the national title three years in a row. Today when the press idolizes SC they never mention that Notre Dame was there 50 years prior. Instead Notre Dame won the National title the following year going 10-0 and winning the national title three out of four years!!!
Similar to Weis, Leahy would never run the score up on an opponent. He believed it was poor sportsmanship and gave the opponent motivation for the next time they played.
In the 1930"s after Rockne's death Notre Dame had become an average football team. Leahy took over and within his third year had returned Notre Dame to national prominence with a national title.
Leahy is with out a doubt up there with Rockne!

I don't think anyone's really understanding what I'm getting at. Its not that I'm saying Leahy wasn't a great coach, or even that he wasn't as great as Ara and Rockne. Its just, the kind of respect he gets, sometimes I just don't think its quite to the same level as Rockne or Ara.

I dunno, like I said, I go back and forth on him. its just seems that when people mention great ND coaches, he's always the 3rd name mentioned. I guess you can put him right up there if you want. My main point was more abou the dicotomy between him ara & Knute, and Holtz & Devine that I see a lot.

 

[Rip Rap]

Devine lost too many games after Parseghian. ND went from averaging a one-loss season to averaging a three-loss season. That's all there is to it. Parseghian was great, arguably the best coach of that decade, though he had a tough time against McKay. Parseghian owned Bryant.

Leahy was the greatest coach in ND history. His schedules were the all-time toughest. Look at 1943 and 1952 particularly, but he generally played at least two top-10 teams every year, and as many as five ranked teams.

In some respects Rockne merely perfected what Jesse Harper brought in from Alonzo Stagg; and ND had a winning tradition long before them. Losing more than two games in a single season was anathema even before Marks 'modernized' Notre Dame. But Harper's greatest player was Rockne-he recognized him as an exeptional talent and recommended that he be named coach after he stepped down-so there is little problem with citing the origin of Notre Dame football in Rockne; however, Notre Dame was good long before then.

The most underrated coach in Notre Dame history is Layden. To be in the pantheon you have to win a National Championship, but his teams were quite exeptional.