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TorontoGold

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So their posting on IE that they believe it's a mental illness is interfering with Trans existence. ;)

Look for one of these under your Christmas tree.

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You asked me who I believe has a problem with their existence, I provided the names and reasoning why I believe that have an issue with their existence. Nowhere did I say it's interfering with their existence or did I say they were afraid. Never did I deviate from my initial position, and you acknowledged that you were mistaken RE: afraid.

I think it may be time for grandpa's nap, can't angry for bingo night.
 

GATTACA!

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I've seen a number of videos on Twitter/Tiktok where trans people complain that cis men/women won't date trans people and they'll use that as a basis to call them transphobic. The problem is these people have been conditioned to believe being a trans woman is no different than being a regular women, and they say things like these cis people shouldn't be afraid of a "feminine penis" and such things. It even feels crazy to type that last bit out. These poor people have been coddled into believing a lie for so long when they should have been getting help.

It is mental illness. I'm only partway through this video, but there's some interesting points made. Trans people are 4 times more likely to have a psychiatric disorder compared to a control group, with 10,000 trans people being used for the study and 53 million in the control group. Often times the issue stems from childhood, I've seen it personally with my niece. She was abused as a toddler by her own father and it left her confused and torn on her own gender and sexuality for a long time. It's tragic, and after an abusive relationship in high school she somehow flipped the script and found a healthy rewarding relationship with a straight guy and she considers herself a girl today. There are things she'll probably never get over. She's been through so much, and it makes me sad to think how many others have been through similar situations and the damage it's caused.


I think it depends entirely on the size of the feminine penis.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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You can't make this stuff up.
FUgRc3uX0AAR-p8.png
 

Irish#1

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You asked me who I believe has a problem with their existence, I provided the names and reasoning why I believe that have an issue with their existence. Nowhere did I say it's interfering with their existence or did I say they were afraid. Never did I deviate from my initial position, and you acknowledged that you were mistaken RE: afraid.

I think it may be time for grandpa's nap, can't angry for bingo night.
You know what I meant, but okay, I'll play one last time. So their posting on IE that they believe it's a mental illness is invalidating (your word not mine) or undermining (your word not mine) a Trans person? Still a stretch anyway you want to slice and dice it.
 

TorontoGold

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You know what I meant, but okay, I'll play one last time. So their posting on IE that they believe it's a mental illness is invalidating (your word not mine) or undermining (your word not mine) a Trans person? Still a stretch anyway you want to slice and dice it.
Yes, by them calling it a mental illness they have an issue with their existence (your original question to me).
 

ab2cmiller

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Yes, by them calling it a mental illness they have an issue with their existence (your original question to me).
By that logic you would have to conclude that the people you are referring to, want everyone with a mental illness to simply not exist.
 

TorontoGold

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By that logic you would have to conclude that the people you are referring to, want everyone with a mental illness to simply not exist.
No? I don't think Bishop et al advocated for them to not exist.

I am saying that if you call someone who is transgender mentally ill, that is saying transgender = mentally ill, which is insulting to their existence. Saying that: transgender = depression = schizo = bipolar, is wrong because you can't just "treat" someone to not be trans.

This is the 2023 shock therapy argument lmao.
 

Rockin’Irish

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No? I don't think Bishop et al advocated for them to not exist.

I am saying that if you call someone who is transgender mentally ill, that is saying transgender = mentally ill, which is insulting to their existence. Saying that: transgender = depression = schizo = bipolar, is wrong because you can't just "treat" someone to not be trans.

This is the 2023 shock therapy argument lmao.
You can’t treat someone to not be ”trans” but people with gender identity issues can be treated with hormones, surgery, anti-depressants, etc. in order to alleviate their dysphoria. Isn’t that shopping down the same aisle?
 

TorontoGold

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I believe that the APA categorizes gender dysphoria as a mental disorder, correct?

Correct it is. 100% of transgender people do not suffer from gender dysphoria though.

You can’t treat someone to not be ”trans” but people with gender identity issues can be treated with hormones, surgery, anti-depressants, etc. in order to alleviate their dysphoria. Isn’t that shopping down the same aisle?

No, because you're doing that out of compassion and with the consent of the patient. Shock therapy was pretty much never done because the patient requested it. Pretty clear distinction, no?
 

Rockin’Irish

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Correct it is. 100% of transgender people do not suffer from gender dysphoria though.



No, because you're doing that out of compassion and with the consent of the patient. Shock therapy was pretty much never done because the patient requested it. Pretty clear distinction, no?
I would agree that non-elective vs. voluntary treatment are two VERY different things. People that decide on a gender that doesn’t match their biological sex can just change clothes and/or change their appearance and it might make them feel comfortable in their own skin, so to speak. However, when they take additional voluntary steps like hormone treatments, medications and/or surgery because their identity struggle interferes with their day to day lives, it becomes a disorder.
 

TorontoGold

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I would agree that non-elective vs. voluntary treatment are two VERY different things. People that decide on a gender that doesn’t match their biological sex can just change clothes and/or change their appearance and it might make them feel comfortable in their own skin, so to speak. However, when they take additional voluntary steps like hormone treatments, medications and/or surgery because their identity struggle interferes with their day to day lives, it becomes a disorder.
But the APA, as we established as a good source, says you can treat gender dysphoria with medical treatment. Why would the APA recommend medical treatment if, like you said, medical treatments make it a disorder? Doesn't seem to lineup.

Medical affirmation may include pubertal suppression for adolescents with gender dysphoria and gender-affirming hormones like estrogen and testosterone for older adolescents and adults. Medical affirmation is not recommended for prepubertal children. Some adults (and less often adolescents) may undergo various aspects of surgical affirmation.
 

Rockin’Irish

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But the APA, as we established as a good source, says you can treat gender dysphoria with medical treatment. Why would the APA recommend medical treatment if, like you said, medical treatments make it a disorder? Doesn't seem to lineup.


I didn’t say it was a good source but it is a source of an opinion. So your opinion is that it is a disease instead of a disorder? Or is gender dysphoria an illness that needs to be addressed with medical treatments in order to be resolved? There are plenty of other disorders that are addressed using medical treatments that‘s why I think it fits into that general category. My definition of medical treatments would include prescribed medications, hormones and surgical procedures.
 

TorontoGold

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I didn’t say it was a good source but it is a source of an opinion. So your opinion is that it is a disease instead of a disorder? Or is gender dysphoria an illness that needs to be addressed with medical treatments in order to be resolved? There are plenty of other disorders that are addressed using medical treatments that‘s why I think it fits into that general category. My definition of medical treatments would include prescribed medications, hormones and surgical procedures.
I'm not sure what the difference between disorder vs disease actually is in relation to mental health, in addition what is it's importance as it relates to gender dysphoria? I don't know what this has to do with being transgender? I'm not sure if you're saying transgender = gender dysphoria? If you are, then I disagree with you.

A good analogy used is, a lot of basketball players are tall but you can be one or the other independently. So, you can be a transgender person and not suffer from gender dysphoria.
 

Rockin’Irish

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My point was simple, I do think people that are confused about their gender and resolve that confusion by using medical treatment should be classified as suffering from a disorder. The literal definition of disorder is confusion. I think all transgender people have had dysphoria about their gender at some point in their lives, at least to some degree. Some transgender people have satisfactorily resolved their situation without medical treatment so it’s fair to say transgender doesn’t always equal gender dysphoria.
 

Irish#1

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This is hilarious.

 

GATTACA!

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IRISHDODGER

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I'm not sure what the difference between disorder vs disease actually is in relation to mental health, in addition what is it's importance as it relates to gender dysphoria? I don't know what this has to do with being transgender? I'm not sure if you're saying transgender = gender dysphoria? If you are, then I disagree with you.

A good analogy used is, a lot of basketball players are tall but you can be one or the other independently. So, you can be a transgender person and not suffer from gender dysphoria.
Can we all agree that clinical gender dysphoria is extremely rare?

“Different studies have arrived at different conclusions about the prevalence of gender dysphoria. The DSM-5 estimates that about 0.005% to 0.014% of people assigned male at birth (that is, roughly one in 10,000) and 0.002% to 0.003% of people assigned female at birth (that is, two or three in every 100,000) are diagnosable with gender dysphoria.[93]

 

drayer54

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I'm pretty tolerant when it comes to transgenderism. Whenever I meet one from time to time, I always treat them with dignity and respect and address them as the gender they are clearly portraying.

As to the procedure, if someone wants to do that then ok. I do think that the surgery aspect should be held off until someone is 18. Maybe even 21 in regards to males as their brains are still developing until they are 25. This is a huge decision that requires a lot of counseling beforehand and thinking things through. No matter how long they have thought this way as a child. They may know they are gay, fair enough. But that's not making life altering decisions.

I know that sounds obvious. I'm not sure children under 18 can think at that level. You are simply a different person at 25, 30, 35, etc. I know I am. A 20 year old can't even buy a pack of cigarettes. There is no going back on this. Love them.

As far as education, I wouldn't go so far as the DeSantis bill. I think children are ready to know of homosexual relationships and transgenderism in junior high. By this time they know about this and genuinely have questions.

That's where I stand myself and I don't think it's unreasonable.
This is a bigoted stance in some places. When kids say who they are, the elected Dems want us to believe them. We have to have more people in the lgbtq net by whatever means possible.
 

TorontoGold

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We have too many guys like this today. Some of them in here.

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The person in your profile picture is taller than you, does that make you a beta?

Personally, I work hard so that I don't have to do manual labor. If it happens to be my wife can do something I can't, that's a huge positive. Having a concierge at my firm that takes my car for oil changes or picks up my dry cleaning for me is an incredible investment we made. Paying someone 80-90K to do chores is a win-win for everyone.
 

SeekNDestroy

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The person in your profile picture is taller than you, does that make you a beta?

Personally, I work hard so that I don't have to do manual labor. If it happens to be my wife can do something I can't, that's a huge positive. Having a concierge at my firm that takes my car for oil changes or picks up my dry cleaning for me is an incredible investment we made. Paying someone 80-90K to do chores is a win-win for everyone.
How can I get one of those jobs? 😂
 

TorontoGold

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How can I get one of those jobs? 😂
Be comfortable being a servant for 10 hours a day and dealing with adult children. Also, 90K CAD is ok but not the best for living in Toronto.

I have some clients who have registered nurses on the payroll that come in to administer IV banana bags and fluids so there analysts can be on top condition always. Wolf on Wall Street isn't that far off from the truth. Can only imagine what Wall Street is like if Bay Street is like this.
 

SeekNDestroy

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Be comfortable being a servant for 10 hours a day and dealing with adult children. Also, 90K CAD is ok but not the best for living in Toronto.

I have some clients who have registered nurses on the payroll that come in to administer IV banana bags and fluids so there analysts can be on top condition always. Wolf on Wall Street isn't that far off from the truth. Can only imagine what Wall Street is like if Bay Street is like this.
I can’t help but think of The Office episode where Michael goes to Winnipeg and thinks the concierge is an escort.
 

Bishop2b5

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The person in your profile picture is taller than you, does that make you a beta?

Personally, I work hard so that I don't have to do manual labor. If it happens to be my wife can do something I can't, that's a huge positive. Having a concierge at my firm that takes my car for oil changes or picks up my dry cleaning for me is an incredible investment we made. Paying someone 80-90K to do chores is a win-win for everyone.
The person in the picture, my wife, is 4" shorter than me. She's wearing heels in the pic and I'm leaning way back against the rail of our deck with my feet well out in front of me. However, height has nothing to do with being a beta or not. It's attitude, approach to life, and lack of such things as mental strength, courage, and character. Being a beta is about being weak. We have a few betas in here. We all know who they are.
 

TorontoGold

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The person in the picture, my wife, is 4" shorter than me. She's wearing heels in the pic and I'm leaning way back against the rail of our deck with my feet well out in front of me. However, height has nothing to do with being a beta or not. It's attitude, approach to life, and lack of such things as mental strength, courage, and character. Being a beta is about being weak. We have a few betas in here. We all know who they are.
Who is a beta? Lets name names.
 
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