Brady Hoke

[MNIrish14]

I might be better off posting this on a Michigan board, but why are so many people assuming Brady Hoke is this incredible coach who is going to turn around the Michigan program? It doesn't make sense. The guy has a career record of 47-50 and only has three winning season in his 8 years as a coach; Ball State 2007 (7-6), Ball State 2008 (12-1) and SDSU 2010 (9-4). Yes the 12-1 season is impressive but it's only one season (and they didn't even win the MAC championship). One quality season doesn't make you an elite coach (ex. Charlie Weis). So any insight on this would be greatly appreciated, because I don't understand the hype at all.

 

[anarin]

I believe Brady Hoke was discussed in detail in this thread:

Michigan Recruiting

 

[MNIrish14]

I'm not denying that he can recruit (but heck, I think even I could pull in a halfway decent class at Michigan considering all the talent in the area). I don't understand why everyone assumes he can COACH. There is very little evidence to support that.

 

[BeauBenken]

I don't know why it posted that twice. Can I get this post deleted?

 

[BeauBenken]

Alright, so I'll use some things from his Wiki page so I don't have to type it all.

In six years at Ball State, Hoke was credited with turning around the football program. In 2008, he led the Ball State football team to a 12–1 record and the first appearance in the Associated Press Top 25 (peaking at No. 12) in school history. In December 2008, Hoke was hired as the head football coach at San Diego State University. He led the 2010 San Diego State Aztecs football team to the school's first nine-win season since 1971 and a victory over Navy in the 2010 Poinsettia Bowl.

In December 2002, Hoke was hired as the 14th head football coach at his alma mater, Ball State University, signing a five-year contract at $125,000 per season.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-JG_8-0">[9]</sup> Hoke told reporters that the moment he heard the vacancy sign was out at Ball State, he knew he wanted to be the school's next head football coach: "There is no doubt."<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-JG_8-1">[9]</sup> Hoke added, "It is great to return to the school that enabled me to get an education and play football. I am looking forward to representing a great university with integrity and pride."<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-SBT_2-3">[3]</sup> Michigan's head coach Lloyd Carr praised Hoke: "Brady has done a tremendous job at Michigan. He is a great recruiter. One of the things I try to do is hire people that have the potential to become head coaches. He is goal-oriented and has a great motivation to be the best that he can be."<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-SBT_2-4">[3]</sup>
Hoke took over a Ball State football program that had not had a winning record since 1996. Hoke's teams won only 10 games in his first three seasons as head coach. Hoke began to turn this around in his fourth year as the team finished 5–7 (5–3) in 2006. In 2007, the team improved to 7–5 in the regular season, as sophomore quarterback Nate Davis passed for 3,376 yards and 27 touchdowns.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-Cards_9-0">[10]</sup> The 2007 Ball State team nearly upset the Nebraska Cornhuskers, but a late touchdown gave Nebraska a 41–40 win.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-Cards_9-1">[10]</sup> The team was invited to play in the International Bowl in Toronto, losing to Rutgers, 52–30.

San Diego State compiled a 2–10 record the year before Hoke arrived. A sports writer for the San Diego Union-Tribune described the challenge facing Hoke: "It's going to be difficult for [Brady Hoke], because with the Aztecs, we're basically talking about a sea change in everything from A to Zed. This isn't Urban Meyer taking over at Florida, where the cupboard already was full of epicurean delights. State has rotting skeletons in its closet. The Aztecs haven't had a winning season since 1998, just seven since 1980."<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-14">[15]</sup>
Hoke won a reputation for recruiting at San Diego State. His brother Jon Hoke, an assistant coach in the NFL, noted: "I don't care where it is, whether it's San Diego State or anywhere else, if there's one thing he can do it's recruit. He's as good at it as anybody. He's relentless with recruiting. He has a great feel for parents and a great feel for players. As long as you give him the budget to (recruit) the way it needs to be done, he'll be fine."<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-15">[16]</sup>
In 2009, Hoke led the Aztecs to a record of 4–8. During the 2010 season, Hoke's team improved to 9–4. Two of the Aztecs' losses in 2010 came in close matches against ranked opponents. The Aztecs gave the undefeated, #2 TCU team its closest game of the regular season, losing by a score of 40–35. Hoke's team also lost a close game against No. 12 Missouri by a score of 27–24. The team concluded its season with a convincing 35–14 win over Navy in the 2010 Poinsettia Bowl.
Prior to the 2010 season, San Diego State had not won nine games in a season since 1971 and had not played in a bowl game since the 1998 team lost in the Las Vegas Bowl. After the 2010 season, a reporter for the Orange County Register wrote that Hoke had given San Diego State "swagger."<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-OCR_1-2">[2]</sup>

Brady Hoke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People have high hopes because he is a good recruiter and a "Michigan man". He's turned two programs from gutter schools to 9+ win teams. The SDSU turn around being a phenomenal one at that.

 

[MNIrish14]

Thanks for the response. I didn't know that

 

[BeauBenken]

Thanks for the response. I didn't know that

I only know some about him because I live in Muncie, Indiana (home of Ball State).

I don't necessarily think he's the greatest coach, but he's certainly not bad. Imo, he got lucky as hell to have a kid like Nate Davis (who has the physical ability to be a starting NFL QB). Davis really started his career.

I wouldn't expect Michigan to necessarily be dominating again anytime real soon, but I do think Hoke will get them on the right track.

I seriously want to know how well Denard is going to do as a pro-style QB though. This will be an interesting season for them to say the least.

 

[IrishMoore1]

I have no doubt that Hoke will turn Michigan around. Think about this: San Diego State was pretty much dead last in the FBS division in 2008. Remember 2008? Yeah, u know, ND's opener against San Diego State, one of the worst teams in Division I. A team ND almost (and probably should have) LOST to. Hoke turned that team around in two years. I would be surprised if the same didn't happen at Michigan.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

We had a terrible fat coach BEFORE Michigan. Too mainstream now.

 

[IrishLax]

Everyone forgets Rich Rod was a ridiculously awesome coach at WVU before he went to Michigan. WVU was on a much bigger stage than SDSU or Ball State. And Rich Rod failed.

No doubt Brady Hoke is going to recruit. But even this class he has so far assembled is nothing special... we're talking 3 total kids in the ESPNU150 out of 20 compared to the 7 (8 counting Prestwood) ND had last year in its #10ish class...

I just don't get the hype. It's extrapolating from "he took bad teams on little stages and made them good for a season and then moved on" to "he's going to turn Michigan around in no time!" It's also extrapolating "he was a good recruiter as an assistant coach and did a good job picking with 0*/2* recruits he wanted" to "OMG WE HAVE THE BEST CLASS EVER!!!"

Color me skeptical. Hell, if you only judged people on brief snippets of success CHARLIE WEIS taking a team that was supposed to go 0-6 and have no talent to back-to-back BCS games is 10x more than Hoke has ever done. And we all know how that career turned out.

 

[Riddickulous]

Everyone forgets Rich Rod was a ridiculously awesome coach at WVU before he went to Michigan. WVU was on a much bigger stage than SDSU or Ball State. And Rich Rod failed.

No doubt Brady Hoke is going to recruit. But even this class he has so far assembled is nothing special... we're talking 3 total kids in the ESPNU150 out of 20 compared to the 7 (8 counting Prestwood) ND had last year in its #10ish class...

I just don't get the hype. It's extrapolating from "he took bad teams on little stages and made them good for a season and then moved on" to "he's going to turn Michigan around in no time!" It's also extrapolating "he was a good recruiter as an assistant coach and did a good job picking with 0*/2* recruits he wanted" to "OMG WE HAVE THE BEST CLASS EVER!!!"

Color me skeptical. Hell, if you only judged people on brief snippets of success CHARLIE WEIS taking a team that was supposed to go 0-6 and have no talent to back-to-back BCS games is 10x more than Hoke has ever done. And we all know how that career turned out.

It's July and Michigan has 6-7 spots left.

I'm skeptical, but I'm not a total disbeliever.

 

[IrishLax]

So if they take a massive class of 26 kids (crazy, but shows how little depth they have on their team right now)... and get all 6 of those guys to be studs in the ESPNU150 that would give them a total of 9 ESPNU150 kids (one more than we had last year in a class of 23). That should be good enough for a ~#4-6 ranked class.

On the other hand, if you extrapolate (as everyone so kindly does with Hoke...) and they finish their class with 4 to 5 ESPNU150 kids.... that might not even be in the top 15.

The whole point is people can say "Hoke is a great recruiter" and "Hoke is a great coach" but there is a reason he was FAR behind Harbaugh and Les Miles on Michigan's wish list. And that reason is because he is very unproven.

He is also incredibly lucky that he no longer has to defeat Jim Tressel... and that alone might be what saves Michigan.

 

[BeauBenken]

So if they take a massive class of 26 kids (crazy, but shows how little depth they have on their team right now)... and get all 6 of those guys to be studs in the ESPNU150 that would give them a total of 9 ESPNU150 kids (one more than we had last year in a class of 23). That should be good enough for a ~#4-6 ranked class.

On the other hand, if you extrapolate (as everyone so kindly does with Hoke...) and they finish their class with 4 to 5 ESPNU150 kids.... that might not even be in the top 15.

The whole point is people can say "Hoke is a great recruiter" and "Hoke is a great coach" but there is a reason he was FAR behind Harbaugh and Les Miles on Michigan's wish list. And that reason is because he is very unproven.

He is also incredibly lucky that he no longer has to defeat Jim Tressel... and that alone might be what saves Michigan.

Who wouldn't be far behind those guys following last season? Nick Saban? Urban Meyer?

 

[Riddickulous]

So if they take a massive class of 26 kids (crazy, but shows how little depth they have on their team right now)... and get all 6 of those guys to be studs in the ESPNU150 that would give them a total of 9 ESPNU150 kids (one more than we had last year in a class of 23). That should be good enough for a ~#4-6 ranked class.

On the other hand, if you extrapolate (as everyone so kindly does with Hoke...) and they finish their class with 4 to 5 ESPNU150 kids.... that might not even be in the top 15.

The whole point is people can say "Hoke is a great recruiter" and "Hoke is a great coach" but there is a reason he was FAR behind Harbaugh and Les Miles on Michigan's wish list. And that reason is because he is very unproven.

He is also incredibly lucky that he no longer has to defeat Jim Tressel... and that alone might be what saves Michigan.

OSU will hire Urban Meyer after this season and Michigan will be ****ed again.

 

[IrishLax]

I'd take Brian Kelly for sure over Les Miles (I'm pretty sure ND would too) but not Harbaugh. Harbaugh was on a different level when he got out of the college game.

 

[koonja]

I posted this in another thread and it didn't warrant any responses

I posted this in another thread and it didn't warrant any responses

Record (Grand Valley State, improved every year BK was coach)
1999: 5-5
2000: 7-4
2001: 13-0
2002: 14-1 (D2 National Champs)
2003: 14-0 (D2 National Champs)
Record (Central Michigan, improved every year BK was coach)
2004: 4-7
2005: 6-5
2006: 9-4 (Conference Champs)
Record (Cincinnati’s record improved every year BK was coach)
2006: 8-5
2007: 10-3
2008: 11-3
2009: 12-0
Class rankings while BK was coach (Cincinnati)
2005: 70th (Zero 4/5 stars)
2006: 70th (One 4-star)
2007: 80th (Zero 4/5 stars)
2008: 51st (Zero 4/5 stars)


I think this shows how BK will dominate and improve, year by year. Hoke's resume is similar, but it is not as impressive, nor does it show great progress as BK's does. There's a reason that Hoke was Michigan's 3rd choice for HC.

 

[Riddickulous]

Record (Grand Valley State, improved every year BK was coach)
1999: 5-5
2000: 7-4
2001: 13-0
2002: 14-1 (D2 National Champs)
2003: 14-0 (D2 National Champs)

It should be noted that those are only the last five years of Brian Kelly's thirteen-year GVSU tenure.

After the 1998 season, Kelly saw that his teams were always solid (8-9 wins), but could never get over the hump and make a deep playoff run. So he gambled and decided to recruit an incredible freshman class whilst promising them immediate playing time. So the 5-5 and 7-4 records are indicative of a starting unit that consisted almost entirely of freshmen and sophomores.

The gamble paid off. The 2001 GVSU team averaged 600 yards and 58.4 points per game and rolled all the way to the '01 title game, only to lose.

 

[koonja]

It should be noted that those are only the last five years of Brian Kelly's thirteen-year GVSU tenure.

After the 1998 season, Kelly saw that his teams were always solid (8-9 wins), but could never get over the hump and make a deep playoff run. So he gambled and decided to recruit an incredible freshman class whilst promising them immediate playing time. So the 5-5 and 7-4 records are indicative of a starting unit that consisted almost entirely of freshmen and sophomores.

The gamble paid off. The 2001 GVSU team averaged 600 yards and 58.4 points per game and rolled all the way to the '01 title game, only to lose.

You're right, I just figured going back a decade's worth would provide enough to drive my point home: he improves teams. I'm not sure you can say that about Hoke. At least not on the same level as BK.

 

[Praytorian]

Let us just see if Brady is like Charlie. They both can recruit, but lets see how he coaches vs' the big boys. Wait its Michigan... who cares?

Go Irish

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Let us just see if Brady is like Charlie. They both can recruit, but lets see how he coaches vs' the big boys. Wait its Michigan... who cares?

Go Irish

I agree. Michigan is like ND, the hype can be your bestfriend and in a few hours become your worst enemy. UM will probably start 4-1 (God willing ND wins) because they play NOONE. Reality could hit hard, and fast if they lose to ND, NW, MSU, Iowa, ILL, Neb and tOSUm which are all possible.

 

[Riddickulous]

I agree. Michigan is like ND, the hype can be your bestfriend and in a few hours become your worst enemy. UM will probably start 4-1 (God willing ND wins) because they play NOONE. Reality could hit hard, and fast if they lose to ND, NW, MSU, Iowa, ILL, Neb and tOSUm which are all possible.

Sounds like the common Michigan State season.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Everyone forgets Rich Rod was a ridiculously awesome coach at WVU before he went to Michigan. WVU was on a much bigger stage than SDSU or Ball State. And Rich Rod failed.

I just don't get the hype. It's extrapolating from "he took bad teams on little stages and made them good for a season and then moved on" to "he's going to turn Michigan around in no time!" It's also extrapolating "he was a good recruiter as an assistant coach and did a good job picking with 0*/2* recruits he wanted" to "OMG WE HAVE THE BEST CLASS EVER!!!"

You could say the exact same thing about Brian Kelly last year. Seriously, what's the difference, except that BK was at Cincy a year longer. I could counter that DII success means crap and Western Mich success means crap, etc etc.

You bring up DickRod and I'll bring up Urban Meyer. You bring up a guy like Dan Hawkins and I'll bring up Jim Tressel. We could do that dance all night. Bottom line is, we don't know what Hoke will be, but for one I certainly see why fans would be excited. Ball St was garbage, and he turned them around. San Diego St, trust me when I tell you this, was G-A-R-B-A-G-E, and he turned them into a damn good football team that kicked the sh!t out of the same Navy team that kicked the crap out of ND (and with FAR less talent mind you). And we're excited about that ND team LOL.

You can doubt him all you want, and you may be right, but to ignore his previous success and to shun any sense of hype surrounding him is ignorant, or just blind homerism. The man deserves respect for being a good coach - he's earned it. Will that translate to Michigan success? You're certainly right in saying it's not a certainty. But it's definitely a possibility. I know he's got my attention...

 

[Buster Bluth]

You can doubt him all you want, and you may be right, but to ignore his previous success and to shun any sense of hype surrounding him is ignorant, or just blind homerism. The man deserves respect for being a good coach - he's earned it. Will that translate to Michigan success? You're certainly right in saying it's not a certainty. But it's definitely a possibility. I know he's got my attention...

This. +1,000,000.

I'll even go as far as to say that Rich Rodriguez is a fine coach. He needed patience and support from Michigan to completely change the program and they weren't willing to budge, he was basically doomed from the start. He runs such a unique system and he couldn't get it fully installed--plus his defense was horrendous and who are we to knock him when Charlie Weis' staff couldn't coach defense for **** either. I want to see him end up at a place like Clemson and tear up the ACC simply to vindicate himself.

Brady Hoke is a fine coach. I think Michigan will be good again and I don't think it's because of the "Michigan Man" or whatever the hell that nonsense is. I think some Irish fans are not realizing just how fantastic his SDSU team was, or his Ball State team.

A wise man knows that he does not know, right? I think it would be wise for all of us to admit we don't have a freaking clue how Brady Hoke will turn out---but where's the fun in that?

Does he deserve the hype? Well, he built the Ball State program from nothing into a team ranked in the top 25. He took a San Diego State program from nothing to a 9-4 team that, if they had the luck of the 2002 Buckeyes, would have been undefeated. hahah If you're going to hire a man to rebuild a program, he certainly fist the mold, no?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Speaking of wise, that lets me out of the conversation. Two things anyway:

I have talked to a lot of Michigan fans and they hold BH as the second coming (of Bo); however, if you pin the fans down after they speak euphorically about the recruiting class, coaching staff, etc., they are pretty worried about the results of any specific game against a decent opponent.

And, all you have for success at any point is one great season. It kind of reminds you of Clemson, under Ford. Cost Woody his job. Won the NC. Was the next dynasty. Then the allegations started, next thing you know, it's all over. I am not making any kind of direct correlation with BH.

What I am saying is there is a huge difference between making a one year run and in building a program. Emotion and luck plays so much more of a part in a one year run. A good MAC example is Nick Saban at the University of Toledo. In one year he turned a program around and won the conference championship, but, in the years after he left, they did even better. He left the cupboards full; in fact they had quite a run. I am sorry, I just haven't seen evidence of sustainded success with Brady yet.

 

[BeauBenken]

What I am saying is there is a huge difference between making a one year run and in building a program. Emotion and luck plays so much more of a part in a one year run. A good MAC example is Nick Saban at the University of Toledo. In one year he turned a program around and won the conference championship, but, in the years after he left, they did even better. He left the cupboards full; in fact they had quite a run. I am sorry, I just haven't seen evidence of sustainded success with Brady yet.

It's cause he jumped ship for better jobs. I don't blame him for that.

Although, like I said earlier, Hoke was lucky as hell to have a kid like Nate Davis. Nate could (and still can) play with the best of them. Of course, perhaps that's a fine example of his ability to recruit.

 

[koonja]

I didn't know which threat was most appropriate for this article so I'm just going to post it here...

Notre Dame Fighting Irish, Arizona State Sun Devils among teams ready to emerge in 2011 - ESPN

Doesn't say much, just mentions the QBs, defense, and predicts a shot at BCS.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It's cause he jumped ship for better jobs. I don't blame him for that.

I know. But did he jump ship, or flee like the rats off a sinking ship? Some use it all to get where they got. I don't think his payoff in each case was that great, to warrant him elite coaching status. (There are a few programs that you are going to have to be elite going in, elite but undiscovered is okay, ND, and Michigan among them.

 

[IrishLax]

You could say the exact same thing about Brian Kelly last year. Seriously, what's the difference, except that BK was at Cincy a year longer. I could counter that DII success means crap and Western Mich success means crap, etc etc.

You bring up DickRod and I'll bring up Urban Meyer. You bring up a guy like Dan Hawkins and I'll bring up Jim Tressel. We could do that dance all night. Bottom line is, we don't know what Hoke will be, but for one I certainly see why fans would be excited. Ball St was garbage, and he turned them around. San Diego St, trust me when I tell you this, was G-A-R-B-A-G-E, and he turned them into a damn good football team that kicked the sh!t out of the same Navy team that kicked the crap out of ND (and with FAR less talent mind you). And we're excited about that ND team LOL.

First, to the bold, multiple 11+ win seasons and two BCS conference championships >>> anything Hoke has done. Seriously, compare apples to apples and Hoke doesn't even have a MAC championship to his name and finished T3rd in the MWC. By contrast, in the 4 year span before Kelly came to ND he won the MAC, had a 10 win season his first year at Cinci, and then had 11 and 12 win seasons resulting in two Big East titles. No matter what way you try to slice it, Kelly has a better resume, but that is not the point

The point is not that Hoke won't be a great coach. A great resume doesn't make a great coach. The point is that everyone getting all amped up for a guy who's best accomplishments are losing the MAC and finishing T3rd in the MWC is a bit premature. The same way everyone getting excited over a class that only has 3 ESPNU150 kids in 20 commits is premature. I think it's reasonable to have measured expectations until he shows me something on the field; but I am certainly NOT predicting failure or something naive like that... I just think people need to cool it on the unbridled enthusiasm.

You can doubt him all you want, and you may be right, but to ignore his previous success and to shun any sense of hype surrounding him is ignorant, or just blind homerism. The man deserves respect for being a good coach - he's earned it. Will that translate to Michigan success? You're certainly right in saying it's not a certainty. But it's definitely a possibility. I know he's got my attention...

On this we 100% agree. I'm just sick of anointing people who haven't done **** besides a "good" job. There are scarce few coaches I would consider a slam dunk for a program (Jim Harbaugh, Nick Saban, ... maybe Bob Stoop, Urban Meyer, Pete Carroll ... not Brian Kelly by a long shot) and Hoke is not one of them. Does he have my attention? Sure. But Rich Rod scared me much more... on there was nothing stopping him from making that team a juggernaut after how dominant he was for so long at WVU.

 

[Rocket89]

I'll add some more fuel for the fire.

Brady Hoke has coached 97 football games in D-1 football and beaten 1 BCS team.

1 win over a BCS school. Now he's coaching at Michigan.

Sure he hasn't had the chance to play many BCS teams, or coach at a BCS school up until now, but that is the very definition of unproven.

And where did all this "Ball State was God awful before Hoke came along" talk come from?

Ball State was 16-18 in Lynch's last three seasons.

They would go 15-31 in Hoke's first four seasons at Ball State.

Maybe he was left with zero talent to work with, but the program declined even more after Hoke took over.

He has two seasons to hang his hat on...his last at Ball State and his last at SDSU. All other seasons he was just another coach.

Ball State's 12-0 run....meh. They beat Navy (so did we that year, so shush), Indiana and a bunch of MAC teams. They collapsed in spectacular fashion against Buffalo in the MAC title game.

I've said it before, Hoke's teams got good at Ball State when Nate Davis started tearing it up at QB.

And SDSU's season last year. Very fine indeed.

However...once again Hoke had one super special offensive star who really tilted the balance in his favor. This man was freshman RB Ronnie Hillman who is likely to blow up over the next couple seasons.

First off, 7 of SDSU's wins were over the absolute worst teams in college football. And they beat Air Force and Navy as their two biggest wins.

They also played Missouri, BYU, TCU, and Utah very close...it's true. But, I claim that Hillman was the difference maker for Hoke's team and kept them in most of these games.

Against all 6 tough opponents last year, Hillman ran for 817 yards at a crazy 7.2 yards per carry.

In those same 6 games, the Aztecs gave up an average of 448 yards per game. In other words, their offense kept them in games.

People keep saying well SDSU beat Navy and we didn't. Well okay...in our apocalyptic loss we only gave up 56 more yards than SDSU did to the Middies. The difference was we couldn't do anything on offense, and SDSU had Hillman run for 228 yards on 28 carries.

Am I trying to make Hoke look bad? Absolutely. But there's quite a lot to go off of here.

I honestly think that out of three UM coaches, Hoke is the least special. We should be more worried about Borges and Mattison as far as I'm concerned. Those two coordinators have a much better history of winning and achieving great things in college and elsewhere.

Just look at it this way....someone make a list of Hoke's 5 biggest wins in his career. There's a reason he wasn't their first choice and is considered a huge reach by most of the country.

I actually think he will be successful in part because UM desperately needs him to be and will throw all of their support behind him...something they didn't do with Rich Rod. Plus, with his two coordinators...they should do just fine. But Hoke by himself? Please.

 

[Buster Bluth]

And where did all this "Ball State was God awful before Hoke came along" talk come from?

Ball State was 16-18 in Lynch's last three seasons.

They would go 15-31 in Hoke's first four seasons at Ball State.

Maybe he was left with zero talent to work with, but the program declined even more after Hoke took over.

He has two seasons to hang his hat on...his last at Ball State and his last at SDSU. All other seasons he was just another coach.

Ball State's 12-0 run....meh. They beat Navy (so did we that year, so shush), Indiana and a bunch of MAC teams. They collapsed in spectacular fashion against Buffalo in the MAC title game.

I've said it before, Hoke's teams got good at Ball State when Nate Davis started tearing it up at QB.

And SDSU's season last year. Very fine indeed.

However...once again Hoke had one super special offensive star who really tilted the balance in his favor. This man was freshman RB Ronnie Hillman who is likely to blow up over the next couple seasons.

First off, 7 of SDSU's wins were over the absolute worst teams in college football. And they beat Air Force and Navy as their two biggest wins.

They also played Missouri, BYU, TCU, and Utah very close...it's true. But, I claim that Hillman was the difference maker for Hoke's team and kept them in most of these games.

Am I trying to make Hoke look bad? Absolutely.

So you've admitted your bias, admitted that Hoke recruited studs to ****** programs, backing up the belief that he is a good recruiter, and admitted that he nearly beat some of the best BCS teams in 2010 with SDSU.

Honestly it's very, very difficult to compare tenures at SDSU and Ball State. We just don't know.