Best Ever?

[guff]

This will be a slow week for the message board so I give you the thought that has been bouncing around my head. Can Quinn become/be the best quarterback ever to play at ND?

Crazy question given the schools history but think about for a second. I can't recall seeing a better one. My memory only goes as far as Beuerlein. But are any that have come since better?

You can make the argument for Rice because of the National Title but he wasn't as much a QB as he was an athlete. It's tough to compare the two.

Beuerlein, Mirer, McDougal, Powlus, Jackson, Holiday - I don't think any of those guys are better. Then you get into Hanratty, Theisman, Montana...?

I'm just thinking - are witnessing something really special and not realizing it?

 

[Irish Envy]

This will be a slow week for the message board so I give you the thought that has been bouncing around my head. Can Quinn become/be the best quarterback ever to play at ND?

Crazy question given the schools history but think about for a second. I can't recall seeing a better one. My memory only goes as far as Beuerlein. But are any that have come since better?

You can make the argument for Rice because of the National Title but he wasn't as much a QB as he was an athlete. It's tough to compare the two.

Beuerlein, Mirer, McDougal, Powlus, Jackson, Holiday - I don't think any of those guys are better. Then you get into Hanratty, Theisman, Montana...?

I'm just thinking - are witnessing something really special and not realizing it?

Statistically... sure. But because he hasn't led us to a national title or even a successful bowl game or two, I think he'll be considered how Marino was considered in the NFL.

However, if he continues this offensive onslaught AND he wins a nice bowl this year and next, I'd no doubt mention his name next to the Rices and Montanas of Irish lore.

 

[KMac151993]

I don't think he could even be considered in the Top 5 yet, of course statistically he is the top QB ever at ND or will be by the time he is done. Rice just won games his W-L record shows that. I think he is a good QB and will finish as one of the best. But ND has had lots of GREAT QB's over its history and even my memory or what I have watched he would be #3 behind Rice and McDougal and just ahead of Mirer.

 

[Champion10]

If Brady leads us to a BCS bowl win this year and Wins the NC next year then he will be up there.

 

[Vince Young]

Figures don't lie, but liars figure. Look at the stats and broken records Ron Powlus put up in his time here. Fat lotta good it did us. And even with Brady Quinn, the past 2 years his best games statistically have been the worst games for Notre Dame as a whole.

I only care about one stat: wins. Just win, baby. The stats and records will follow.

 

[bigdon]

The one thing about Quinn is he is doing these things as a Junior. If you project his stats through next year he will have to be one of the best. There are a lot of games to be played before we can rate him. Incidentally I can go back to Johnny Lujack so there are a lot of QBs that played before many of you guys were born. Let's wait and see and hope he continues to impress.

 

[scooper]

If they can win it all next season, I don't know how you can not consider him the best. He'll never surpass Montana in the pros. I don't think anybody will. But when talking about college, numbers or not, he just seems to make the plays. Next year he will have a chance at becoming a legend.

 

[absoluteirish59]

You guys forgetting a couple of guys that go way back. Like Angello Bertelli, Johnny Lujack, John Huarte just to name a few. These guys are legends. They all won the heisman and a couple national championships. I can't consider Brady the "best ever" until he has done at least one of the two.

 

[guff]

He was atleast player of the week. Give him a vote

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2005-10-23-player-of-week_x.htm

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

He will easily be the stat leader and maybe the all time passing leader by year's end. Add to that a BCS bowl win this year and NC next year, on top of a serious Heisman run next year and this guy tops everyone in my book. Then he'll be a top 5 draft choice!

Pretty good stuff, but how much do Weis and the system have to do with these numbers?

We all remember Danny Wuerffel's outstanding performance for Florida (Heisman and NC), but he was a terrible professional.

 

[Irish Legend]

I don't think he could even be considered in the Top 5 yet, of course statistically he is the top QB ever at ND or will be by the time he is done. Rice just won games his W-L record shows that. I think he is a good QB and will finish as one of the best. But ND has had lots of GREAT QB's over its history and even my memory or what I have watched he would be #3 behind Rice and McDougal and just ahead of Mirer.

Quinn would be ahead of McDougal right now!

 

[St.Kittsnd]

I believe that he is one of the best and should be considered the best if the team does well next year. After all, Brady Quinn can't be blamed for the game planning and coaching skills of Ty Willingham and his assistants.

Brady had good numbers last year and under the direction of Charlie Weis he has continued to improve and demonstrate his ability as a team leader. This kid is definitely right there with all of the other greats and is reaching for the top.

 

[weisfaninmass]

I don't think he could even be considered in the Top 5 yet, of course statistically he is the top QB ever at ND or will be by the time he is done. Rice just won games his W-L record shows that. I think he is a good QB and will finish as one of the best. But ND has had lots of GREAT QB's over its history and even my memory or what I have watched he would be #3 behind Rice and McDougal and just ahead of Mirer.

In my opinion, Tony Rice was one of the best "COLLEGE QB's" EVER. Not as a passer, not as a rusher, not as a "stat man" but as a QB who "GOT 'ER DONE'. His record in big games is unparalleled. I don't think a QB ever had to play as many TOP 10 teams as he did and he won - won with his legs, won with his arm , won with his leadership, won with his confidence, and won with his smile in the huddle before a big play.

 

[ND Lifer]

It all comes down to wins and NC's. So far, BQ is only a few games over .500 with no NC's. Much of his passing "stats" came when trying to play catch-up and just winging the ball on a hope and a prayer. On the other hand, he is developing into a great pro-style QB. The wins will take care of themselves this year and next and hopefully a NC next year. I think with another year under Weis' leadership, BQ will be an unbelievable QB next year, possibly a Heisman winner. He will be a very good NFL QB. In fact I predict he will fare much better than Leinart in the pros. When all is said and done, Brady Quinn should hold all the ND passing records and, at least, be considered one of the all-time ND great QB's , if not the best.

 

[weisfaninmass]

Quinn would be ahead of McDougal right now!

McDougal had one of the greatest individual seasons a QB has had at ND that lead to a #2 ranking, defeat of the #1 team (FSU) and one of the greatest comebacks in history (almost) against BC. Quinn is "in process" of the greatest stat season an ND QB ever had - but the game has changed. His year 1 & 2 success was very "Rusty Lisch like". Let's let him win the remaining games and lead ND to a top 5 before we move him ahead of McDougal. Then if he win the National Championship, Heisman etc we can compare him to a few other ND Heisman winners like Huarte, Lujack etc and non Heisman winners like Rice, Theismann, Montana, Hanratty etc.

 

[guff]

He will easily be the stat leader and maybe the all time passing leader by year's end. Add to that a BCS bowl win this year and NC next year, on top of a serious Heisman run next year and this guy tops everyone in my book. Then he'll be a top 5 draft choice!

Pretty good stuff, but how much do Weis and the system have to do with these numbers?

We all remember Danny Wuerffel's outstanding performance for Florida (Heisman and NC), but he was a terrible professional.

But Wuerffel doesn't have Quinn's arm, strength, footwork, brains etc. Wuerffel was a system quarterback. Put a QB into a wide open offense with a ton of talent at WR and chuck it around.

ND's system is designed around Quinn. Put any other QB under center and ND becomes average offensively. Weis, as he has said several times, gives Quinn as much responsiblity as he can handle.

I asked the question "Best ever?" because I think we might be overlooking the player because of the coach. This year Quinn should finish with:
-around 65% completion percentage (ND season record 62%)
-25+ TDs (record 19)
-around 3700 yds (record 2753)
-best ever TD/INT ratio
-lead team to BCS victory
-and he should be a finalist for some if not all of the following: Heisman, Davey O'Brien, Maxwell, and Walter Camp. And he's got one more season left.

Next year he will put up Peyton Manning like numbers. And will have ND in the hunt for a National Championship. Hell ND is a couple of defensive stops short of being in the hunt this year.

If he keeps it up #10 will be the new #3.

 

[KMac151993]

In my opinion, Tony Rice was one of the best "COLLEGE QB's" EVER. Not as a passer, not as a rusher, not as a "stat man" but as a QB who "GOT 'ER DONE'. His record in big games is unparalleled. I don't think a QB ever had to play as many TOP 10 teams as he did and he won - won with his legs, won with his arm , won with his leadership, won with his confidence, and won with his smile in the huddle before a big play.

Very good call, you described him perfectly, he has to be one of the best ever just for the simple fact he could win a game a dozen different ways.

 

[KMac151993]

McDougal had one of the greatest individual seasons a QB has had at ND that lead to a #2 ranking, defeat of the #1 team (FSU) and one of the greatest comebacks in history (almost) against BC. Quinn is "in process" of the greatest stat season an ND QB ever had - but the game has changed. His year 1 & 2 success was very "Rusty Lisch like". Let's let him win the remaining games and lead ND to a top 5 before we move him ahead of McDougal. Then if he win the National Championship, Heisman etc we can compare him to a few other ND Heisman winners like Huarte, Lujack etc and non Heisman winners like Rice, Theismann, Montana, Hanratty etc.

That was my thoughts for putting him were I did. McDougal had the Rice almost swagger about him. He didn't put up huge numbers or anything but he just seemed to win games and put his team in it, he never made a costly mistake in any game in his career-college or pro. He just won games, so I can not justify putting Quinn ahead of him just cuz he throws 50 passes a game and 6 TD's. Quinn has yet to win the "Big Game" and until he does I can not put him up there.

 

[guff]

McDougal wasn't the main cog in wheel. His job was to not screw it up. He had the best group of running backs in college football at the time. Give the ball to them let them make the play - that was his job. He was a caretaker not a playmaker.

Putting him in the same group as Rice is like putting Dilfer in the same group as Unitas just because both won Super Bowls for Balitmore.

Paraphrasing Schembechler - Quinn may not be in class by himself but it doesn't take long to call the roll.

 

[TomFoolery]

no one questioned Ty's staff when they set the best first year record for a coach in ND history- interesting!

 

[BGIF]

no one questioned Ty's staff when they set the best first year record for a coach in ND history- interesting!

Tom, at least make something up that has some plausability.

"He wins with SMOKE AND MIRRORS" was the weekly mantra on TV, radio, and print media. Most ND fans despite enjoying the wins, questioned the complete lack of offense.

As for first year coaches

Jesse Harper was undefeated

Leahy was undefeated

Parsegahian and Brennan both had a higher winning percentage than Ty, .900 v .769

Only 4 first year coaches in ND's history lost more games than Ty.

Ty won the most games for a first year coach while playing the most games for a first year coach.

 

[jiggafini19]

Notre Dame hasn't been known for their passing since Quinn came into the picture. My God, he has more 400 yard passing games in his career than the school had in 50 years.

Tony Rice lost one game as a starter and won what could have been two national titles (They either got HOSED in 1989 or 1993. What a double standard). Ron Powlus has most of the passing records, though he won't for much longer. He was also in an offense that was not suited for his ability. Montana is probably the best QB this side of Johnny Unitas. McDougal was a one year wonder, but what a wonder it was.

If you told me I could start one QB in Irish history for a game, I'd probably take Rick Mirer. I thought his overall talent was the most well rounded during his time at ND. But I also think Quinn is an upgrade to Mirer based on their careers to this point (junior year), so all I've done is ramble to get to this point.

Quinn will go down in the books as the best.

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

But Wuerffel doesn't have Quinn's arm, strength, footwork, brains etc. Wuerffel was a system quarterback. Put a QB into a wide open offense with a ton of talent at WR and chuck it around.

ND's system is designed around Quinn. Put any other QB under center and ND becomes average offensively. Weis, as he has said several times, gives Quinn as much responsiblity as he can handle.

I asked the question "Best ever?" because I think we might be overlooking the player because of the coach. This year Quinn should finish with:
-around 65% completion percentage (ND season record 62%)
-25+ TDs (record 19)
-around 3700 yds (record 2753)
-best ever TD/INT ratio
-lead team to BCS victory
-and he should be a finalist for some if not all of the following: Heisman, Davey O'Brien, Maxwell, and Walter Camp. And he's got one more season left.

Next year he will put up Peyton Manning like numbers. And will have ND in the hunt for a National Championship. Hell ND is a couple of defensive stops short of being in the hunt this year.

If he keeps it up #10 will be the new #3.

I hope you're right guff. With Quinn and Weis, I am so incredibly excited for next season and a great shot at a major bowl win this year makes me smile with delight. Actually...any bowl win would be great.

 

[TexasDomer]

If you told me I could start one QB in Irish history for a game, I'd probably take Rick Mirer. I thought his overall talent was the most well rounded during his time at ND. But I also think Quinn is an upgrade to Mirer based on their careers to this point (junior year), so all I've done is ramble to get to this point.

I'm with you on this. I was in Mirer's class at ND, and he threw short, medium and long routes well, managed the clock, and could run the option. I watched the 1990 ND/UM game the other night on ESPN classic (as well as some other games over the years), and I can't see why he was such a bust in the NFL. He was a stud at ND, and that class was a pretty successful one, winning bowls three out of four years.

I still remember Bill Walsh doing color for the 1991 Orange Bowl, and the first pass Mirer threw, Walsh said, "That was a hell of a pass..I mean, a heck of a pass."

 

[Domer95]

of Johnny Unitas. McDougal was a one year wonder, but what a wonder it was.

If you told me I could start one QB in Irish history for a game, I'd probably take Rick Mirer. I thought his overall talent was the most well rounded during his time at ND. But I also think Quinn is an upgrade to Mirer based on their careers to this point (junior year), so all I've done is ramble to get to this point.

JIGGA,
Normally I almost always agree with you, but this time NO WAY. I'd take BQ 4 QB 4 1 game, barely edging out Rice. Other than the Snow Bowl against PSU, I can't remember another big game that Mirer won. I DO remember sitting in the stands wondering why Lou is letting him throw ICBMs to no one, while we lose to Stanford.

I do believe that Mirer would have flourished under Weis, he was also ill suited for Lou's offense, but not as much as Powlus was. It was painful trying to watch him dutifully run the option in cement shoes...

 

[iloveirish_12]

Here is a question. How good would he be if Cdub was coaching him for his college career?

 

[jiggafini19]

Other than the Snow Bowl against PSU, I can't remember another big game that Mirer won....

You're kidding right?

Michigan in his first game at home, under the lights? Miami for the last time ever in the regular season? Tennesee that same year?

1992 Sugar Bowl against Florida? 1993 Cotton Bowl? 1-1-1 against scUM, 3-0 against USC. A 54-7 blowout against #9 Boston College.

29-7-1 in 3 years.

 

[BGIF]

Stanford 16-0 ND lead.

16-33 final.

 

[weisfaninmass]

If you told me I could start one QB in Irish history for a game, I'd probably take Rick Mirer. I thought his overall talent was the most well rounded during his time at ND. But I also think Quinn is an upgrade to Mirer based on their careers to this point (junior year), so all I've done is ramble to get to this point.

Quinn will go down in the books as the best.

I am assuming you are refering to modern era -- but that being said I'd still take Rice.

Your most important point is "Quinn will go down in the books as the best" -- will go. So right now -- at this point in history -- he has NOT gone down as the best. He needs to win a big bowl game this year, lead them to TOP 5 a couple time etc -- which he will. He just hasn't done it yet.

 

[Tridentum]

Depends how one defines "best." If you are talking about the QB position in the statistical sense, then you have to be looking at Quinn and thinking that if he keeps this pace he will go down as the best. In any case this sort of subjective comparison is fraught with difficulties. Quinn is no doubt benefitting from the Robot Genius's offensive system and his supernatural guidance. Would Mirer have enjoyed similar success in this system. We'll never know. ND has had a lot of great QBs, but barring injury, by the time Quinn is done he will own the record book and maybe an NC to boot. Then you can ask the question.