‘24 OH CB Karson Hobbs (Notre Dame Signee)

[IAIrish]

100% to me. Watch every big play from those two games and spot how many are against Stroman/Hobbs/Talich

I think if Ash called every single play exactly the same but Johnson and Smith were in the game, they win both.

Agree with most of what you've shared, but lumping in Talich with Hobbs/Stroman is wrong. I went back and watched... gross. Hobbs was putrid and Stroman missed a ton of backbreaking tackles. I saw potentially one play Talich missed (not knowing coverage responsibilities).

I think the staff banked on stroman's experience, but underestimated his rust after missing the last several months of last season. It's apparent he wasn't ready for the skill talent he faced out of the gate.

Hobbs looked absolutely lost, as most of the secondary did for long stretches... you wonder what it would've looked like had Mickens been elevated to DC, if there had been a bit more continuity. X Watts was sorely missed....

Then we had two absolutely pivotal plays involving Shuler, giving up the td pass before the half at Miami and the targeting against Reed.

For reference, here were the snap counts for those games:

Miami:
S Adon Shuler 68

- S Jalen Stroman 57

- Nickel DeVonta Smith 37

- Nickel Karson Hobbs 21

- S Luke Talich 14

- S Tae Johnson 9

A&m:
Tae Johnson (56)

Karson Hobbs (56)

Adon Shuler (49)

Jalen Stroman (26)

Luke Talich (22)

 

[Dale]

Agree with most of what you've shared, but lumping in Talich with Hobbs/Stroman is wrong. I went back and watched... gross. Hobbs was putrid and Stroman missed a ton of backbreaking tackles. I saw potentially one play Talich missed (not knowing coverage responsibilities).

I think the staff banked on stroman's experience, but underestimated his rust after missing the last several months of last season. It's apparent he wasn't ready for the skill talent he faced out of the gate.

Hobbs looked absolutely lost, as most of the secondary did for long stretches... you wonder what it would've looked like had Mickens been elevated to DC, if there had been a bit more continuity. X Watts was sorely missed....

Then we had two absolutely pivotal plays involving Shuler, giving up the td pass before the half at Miami and the targeting against Reed.

For reference, here were the snap counts for those games:

Miami:
S Adon Shuler 68

- S Jalen Stroman 57

- Nickel DeVonta Smith 37

- Nickel Karson Hobbs 21

- S Luke Talich 14

- S Tae Johnson 9

A&m:
Tae Johnson (56)

Karson Hobbs (56)

Adon Shuler (49)

Jalen Stroman (26)

Luke Talich (22)

I don’t think Talich is a bad player but he was in at single high safety and got turned around and pretty poor depth on Toney’s TD against Hobbs. Like Stroman, Talich doesn’t belong in that spot, Johnson does.

 

[allenm5333]

I don’t think Talich is a bad player but he was in at single high safety and got turned around and pretty poor depth on Toney’s TD against Hobbs. Like Stroman, Talich doesn’t belong in that spot, Johnson does.

Wasn’t single high. Talich was field safety and boundary safety clamped down on a dig, toney ran a crosser from across field. If I had to guess, Boundary safety messed up most here. Hobbs should trail the crosser and play under with safety over top

 

[Dale]

Wasn’t single high. Talich was field safety and boundary safety clamped down on a dig, toney ran a crosser from across field. If I had to guess, Boundary safety messed up most here. Hobbs should trail the crosser and play under with safety over top

It wasn’t single high alignment but it was 2 High Cover 1 which is single high in responsibility. It wasn’t Cover 2. Talich was essentially shadowing towards the field mainly because Zackery had just entered the game. His depth he then gets essentially takes him out of the play entirely. It’s not a damming mistake but it’s not Tae Johnson either.

 

[kzoondfi]

Shuler making one mistake and Hobbs getting abused for two games aren’t quite the same thing.

Hence why I said, “any little thing.” He did not play well, if he played well for those 2 games we would be 12-0 and that’s not any little thing. Any little thing would have made us 11-1.

 

[DillonHall]

We have a very healthy roster, especially in the DB room. It would've concerned me if he didn't transfer out

 

[allenm5333]

It wasn’t single high alignment but it was 2 High Cover 1 which is single high in responsibility. It wasn’t Cover 2. Talich was essentially shadowing towards the field mainly because Zackery had just entered the game. His depth he then gets essentially takes him out of the play entirely. It’s not a damming mistake but it’s not Tae Johnson either.

Could see the argument it being cover 1 robber. Could also be quarters and safety jumped. Who the hells knows with how off our scheme was weeks 1-2.5

 

[IAIrish]

Could see the argument it being cover 1 robber. Could also be quarters and safety jumped. Who the hells knows with how off our scheme was weeks 1-2.5

Agreed. Facts are none of the safeties were making that play week 1, Johnson included. Watts wasn't walking back onto the field as agent #0.

 

[ND88]

A family member of mine met Hobbs after he committed to ND and spoke very highly about him. Stated that he was very excited to play for the Irish. Some of you speak of these players as if they aren't humans, just plug and drops. Those losses don't rest all on his shoulders. That's absurd. He's moving on. Sorry it didn't work out at ND, but best of luck moving forward.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Pretty much completes my outgoing portal hopes for the ND secondary this cycle. I wish it wasn't this way, however, in the NIL / transfer portal era, the overwhelming majority of your depth will come from freshman and sophomores and in order to ensure they're ready to meet the moment, they need as many practice reps as possible.

Clearing guys like Tucker, Minich, Blair and Hobbs off the roster (guys who have fallen behind their peers), allows you to guarantee more reps for the exceptionally talented freshman class, while taking a deeper look at the likes of Thomas and Logan, to see if they have what it takes to help you. If not, a year from now, you likely move them along in similar fashion.

Roster composition has changed tremendously over the last few years, however, this remains the most healthy way to field a competitive roster, focused on ensuring that the most important practice and game reps go to the players you will be counting on come the fall.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Pretty much completes my outgoing portal hopes for the ND secondary this cycle. I wish it wasn't this way, however, in the NIL / transfer portal era, the overwhelming majority of your depth will come from freshman and sophomores and in order to ensure they're ready to meet the moment, they need as many practice reps as possible.

Clearing guys like Tucker, Minich, Blair and Hobbs off the roster (guys who have fallen behind their peers), allows you to guarantee more reps for the exceptionally talented freshman class, while taking a deeper look at the likes of Thomas and Logan, to see if they have what it takes to help you. If not, a year from now, you likely move them along in similar fashion.

Roster composition has changed tremendously over the last few years, however, this remains the most healthy way to field a competitive roster, focused on ensuring that the most important practice and game reps go to the players you will be counting on come the fall.

Taebron

 

[IrishInOntario]

Taebron

Precisely.

 

[NDPhilly]

In the BK era he probably ends up a solid multi-year starter. Wish him the best.

 

[IrishBoognish]

Its a bit of a bummer

I kinda pine for the days (of like 10 years ago) when kids just stayed and got their degrees and made it

I totally understand and support wanting to get your money if you can, but geez .

You'd think Hobbs should stay and compete under Mickens and get his degree.. Maybe im a boomer Gen X guy

 

[IrishinSyria]

Pretty much completes my outgoing portal hopes for the ND secondary this cycle. I wish it wasn't this way, however, in the NIL / transfer portal era, the overwhelming majority of your depth will come from freshman and sophomores and in order to ensure they're ready to meet the moment, they need as many practice reps as possible.

Clearing guys like Tucker, Minich, Blair and Hobbs off the roster (guys who have fallen behind their peers), allows you to guarantee more reps for the exceptionally talented freshman class, while taking a deeper look at the likes of Thomas and Logan, to see if they have what it takes to help you. If not, a year from now, you likely move them along in similar fashion.

Roster composition has changed tremendously over the last few years, however, this remains the most healthy way to field a competitive roster, focused on ensuring that the most important practice and game reps go to the players you will be counting on come the fall.

It definitely beats the gray shirt era at bama and other SEC schools where guys like this would be pushed out of football and a scholarship.

 

[stlnd01]

Its a bit of a bummer

I kinda pine for the days (of like 10 years ago) when kids just stayed and got their degrees and made it

I totally understand and support wanting to get your money if you can, but geez .

You'd think Hobbs should stay and compete under Mickens and get his degree.. Maybe im a boomer Gen X guy

I tend to agree. Especially for guys like Hobbs, or Taebron, who are unlikely to ever make any real money playing professional football, and aren't going to get a particularly large NIL deal, the education, degree and experience of playing at Notre Dame are the real prize. And every now and then there's a case like Javon McKinley, who stuck long after a lot of people would have left, and turned into a valuable player as a senior.
But, to Ontario's point, there are only so many reps (even in practice ) to go around, there are younger players who need them, and if these guys want to actually play, there are plenty of places that would be happy to have them.
I just very much do hope we're not pushing guys out before they've graduated. I would have a problem with that.

 

[IA4irish]

I tend to agree. Especially for guys like Hobbs, or Taebron, who are unlikely to ever make any real money playing professional football, and aren't going to get a particularly large NIL deal, the education, degree and experience of playing at Notre Dame are the real prize. And every now and then there's a case like Javon McKinley, who stuck long after a lot of people would have left, and turned into a valuable player as a senior.
But, to Ontario's point, there are only so many reps (even in practice ) to go around, there are younger players who need them, and if these guys want to actually play, there are plenty of places that would be happy to have them.
I just very much do hope we're not pushing guys out before they've graduated. I would have a problem with that.

I wouldn’t say ND is “pushing guys out.” However, if the staff feels as though you’ve been passed up or unlikely to play, I believe the NIL payment gets drastically cut. For instance, say Hobbs was making $100k, it wouldn’t surprise me if that were cut to basically nothing. He is still on scholarship so received the benefit of that. In this new era of football, I think most guys will decide to try and get some money elsewhere.

 

[Irish#1]

Its a bit of a bummer

I kinda pine for the days (of like 10 years ago) when kids just stayed and got their degrees and made it

I totally understand and support wanting to get your money if you can, but geez .

You'd think Hobbs should stay and compete under Mickens and get his degree.. Maybe im a boomer Gen X guy

It was a little simpler, but nothing we can do but accept it. The positive are two fold. There will be a spot and playing time for these kids somewhere and it means the younger kids being brought in are better.

 

[Dale]

Hobbs probably could have stayed if he wanted. Just wouldn’t play barring a turnaround. But he could graduate. Look at Zinter, Payne, Minich, Tucker just recently all graduated.

 

[DillonHall]

A family member of mine met Hobbs after he committed to ND and spoke very highly about him. Stated that he was very excited to play for the Irish. Some of you speak of these players as if they aren't humans, just plug and drops. Those losses don't rest all on his shoulders. That's absurd. He's moving on. Sorry it didn't work out at ND, but best of luck moving forward.

I'm sure he's a great kid but he's not good enough as a football player. He probably could've stayed at ND if he was willing to give up his scholarship and NIL

 

[ND88]

I'm sure he's a great kid but he's not good enough as a football player. He probably could've stayed at ND if he was willing to give up his scholarship and NIL

And that's fine to assess his merits as a football player. His coaches did when they offered him and determined he was good enough to compete for a spot. He took his shot and it didn't work out. Which is not to say he couldn't have worked out as a contributor. Sample size was too small to fully evaluate. Yes, he was put into some early challenges with a transitioning defense and had to learn some tough lessons early. But to drag the young man as though he is responsible for us not making the CFP is purely reactionary and absurd. (Not saying this is necessarily your take btw.)

Also, by your username, I'm sure you know that anyone with aspirations of pursuing a dream aren't just going to give up on it. And this is why I will always vouch for the humanity of these athletes. Anyway, peace.

 

[Ricochet]

Hobbs has the traits but not the feel for the game at the level he needed to play, its as simple as that.

 

[stlnd01]

I'm sure he's a great kid but he's not good enough as a football player. He probably could've stayed at ND if he was willing to give up his scholarship and NIL

I can see reducing his NIL for next season, that's fair game. But zero reason to pull a scholarship from a kid like Hobbs. If we start doing that I'm not sure what the "four for 40" pitch is all about.

 

[jprue24]

A family member of mine met Hobbs after he committed to ND and spoke very highly about him. Stated that he was very excited to play for the Irish. Some of you speak of these players as if they aren't humans, just plug and drops. Those losses don't rest all on his shoulders. That's absurd. He's moving on. Sorry it didn't work out at ND, but best of luck moving forward.

This. I wish he played better for Notre Dame, but it's not like he just didn't give a fuck.

He has goals and sunk cost might apply here. I wish him the best in his next step/journey and I hope it ends with at the very least, an earned degree providing opportunities.

Edit -

I'm sure he's a great kid but he's not good enough as a football player. He probably could've stayed at ND if he was willing to give up his scholarship and NIL

...wait what? Has this happened?

I know non-scholly can earn one (Talich, Finke, etc), but I don't remember any confirmed situations where a player lost his scholarship and stayed on the team as a walk on?

I understand NIL money coming and going based on performance, but the scholarship of a player in the two deep?

 

[stpeteirish]

Yeah there’s no way we took away his scholarship unless he had an off the field sin of significance. Quite possible they put him at “your on your own” as far as money goes

 

[DillonHall]

I can see reducing his NIL for next season, that's fair game. But zero reason to pull a scholarship from a kid like Hobbs. If we start doing that I'm not sure what the "four for 40" pitch is all about.

Nobody should be guaranteed to have a scholarship for all four years. That’s just my opinion but I’d bet some of these kids get “encouraged” to transfer

 

[irishff1014]

Nobody should be guaranteed to have a scholarship for all four years. That’s just my opinion but I’d bet some of these kids get “encouraged” to transfer

That’s the reason most of us like ND. They are different and once they give their word, they keep
It.

 

[DillonHall]

That’s the reason most of us like ND. They are different and once they give their word, they keep
It.

I don't know, it's complicated with NIL and limitless transfers. I wouldn't hold it against Freeman/Martin if they pushed kids out. It's a business now

 

[IrishInOntario]

That’s the reason most of us like ND. They are different and once they give their word, they keep
It.

With the current roster limit there isn't much of a need to push kids out. If a guy wants to stay, get his degree and be a depth player on the roster, ND will continue to honor his scholarship in almost all instances.

What ND does do, however, is cut rev share to the players at the bottom of the depth almost entirely. Therefore, you can stay if you want, but ND isn't going to pay you much / at all to be part of the roster unless you are a freshman that is receiving a "signing bonus" or a 2-2.5 deep guy being expected to contribute.

 

[FWIrish4]

With the current roster limit there isn't much of a need to push kids out. If a guy wants to stay, get his degree and be a depth player on the roster, ND will continue to honor his scholarship in almost all instances.

What ND does do, however, is cut rev share to the players at the bottom of the depth almost entirely. Therefore, you can stay if you want, but ND isn't going to pay you much / at all to be part of the roster unless you are a freshman that is receiving a "signing bonus" or a 2-2.5 deep guy being expected to contribute.

Exactly how it should be.

Also, this is why I found Mike Frank’s rant on the last Power Hour hilarious. He got on the topic of the pay cuts coming to the guys buried on the depth chart and his exaggerated interpretation was none of these guys are able to get their ND degrees anymore.

Mike - they’re taking a pay cut, not getting kicked out of school. Millions of college athletes have attended college with only scholarships for the last century (myself included). They can still get their degree if they really wanted to, they just aren’t getting paid like a 4-star recruit to be third string as a junior.