'23 FL DE Keon Keeley (Prodigal Son)

[FDNYIrish1]

Everyone with a brain knew Saban publicly going after Jimbo was a bat signal to the bag men to step it up. There’s no way he was getting out-cheated.

 

[INLaw]

Well, for one we can schedule like them,… rarely ever leave our region and never schedule two difficult games back to back unless it’s totally unavoidable. Put like four absolutely can not lose under any circumstance games on every single yearly schedule and watch the ten plus win seasons roll in without fail,… then see an uptick in recruiting as result

Glad u said it the constant boner for the b1g and harder and harder schedules from the pundit class pisses me off. The way is your one big osu or clemson game not both a few not awesome name brands and then pad it out with BS. This is the modern playoff way

 

[Sea Turtle]

You forgot “make it to the CFP and get smacked.”

Yep. They have to stop pooping their pants in big games. That includes New Year's bowl games outside of the playoffs.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Yep. Have to stop pooping their pants in big games

But again, the reason we're losing these big games is because we're playing teams that land the Keeley-level prospects regularly.

So now, we have NIL running amuck, looking to snag our 2 highest rated recruits and the biggest difference makers that play a huge role when in these big games.

How can we expect to beat big-time opponents when we can't land big-time players?

 

[Luckylucci]

Sure but based off this cycle, you’d need additional backup options at QB (Moore), RB (Love), WR (Hanafin), DE (Keeley), CB (Rhett), S (Bowen). Heck Flanagan still talks to Bama as of a few months ago. James wanted to visit others. What if OSU calls back Flores? Jason Moore. Traore visited BC as a commit. Point being to effectively always be prepared and not just look in hindsight you’d have to recruit quite a bit of extra recruits and when you’re doing that who’s got this extra time? Are we not doing a chicken and egg and pushing commits/leans out because they know Plan B is on their visit? Many more other logistical questions.

Yea, so we would have had to recruit 10 more prospects to ensure we don't have roster gaps due to late defections. Sign me up. Seems incredibly reasonable.

Now, I think there is still a big difference and nuance needed between Flanagan and Keeley. Moore and Flanagan. Traore and Keeley. Etc. Which wouldn't require us to recruit "back up" plans for all 10 but for the sake of this conversation this does not seem unreasonable in the slightest.

 

[Dale]

But again, the reason we're losing these big games is because we're playing teams that land the Keeley-level prospects regularly.

So now, we have NIL running amuck, looking to snag our 2 highest rated recruits and the biggest difference makers that play a huge role when in these big games.

How can we expect to beat big-time opponents when we can't land big-time players?

Has to be first because of QB (“Clemson Model”)

 

[Dale]

Yea, so we would have had to recruit 10 more prospects to ensure we don't have roster gaps due to late defections. Sign me up. Seems incredibly reasonable.

Now, I think there is still a big difference and nuance needed between Flanagan and Keeley. Moore and Flanagan. Traore and Keeley. Etc. Which wouldn't require us to recruit "back up" plans for all 10 but for the sake of this conversation this does not seem unreasonable in the slightest.

Okay which blue chip Edge prospects are going to okay strung along since April or heck January by us? Do you accept their commitment? Does taking 2 Edges then mean less of which position. 10 guys? Well that assumes you bat 1.000 you would need more than that. And again much of that determination you’re making in hindsight. Listen sure it’d love to have known we had a Top 150 Edge just at the ready. Everyone would. But it’s not nearly as easy, well why didn’t we have a backup. It’s like wanting a power hitter to never strike out.

 

[GATTACA!]

Has to be first because of QB (“Clemson Model”)

Honestly if we could just make one exception and cut Dante a check, Dante into CJ could set us on a Clemson type trajectory.

 

[Justin574]

It’s time we stop getting upset with coaches for losing games against teams like Bama or TAMU when we play them in a couple years. We are not under the same rules as those schools. It’s time fans get angry with the admin. not the coaches. Get pissed at MF if we lose to OK. State again or go down to the wire with Toledo, but it’s on the admin for getting waxed by teams that pay players. Jesus himself couldn’t coach up ND to beat Bama. If CJ turns out to be Trevor Lawrence, there’s a punchers chance, but it’s on the admin for likely getting ass pounded from here on out, not Freeman. ND should think of 12-0 regular season as ceiling. It’s so tiring to hear coaches say ND expects to win a title. BK said it all the time and he himself did not believe that was possible. Freeman knows deep down that’s a nearly impossible endeavor. If not, he’s finding that out right now. That’s why I believe, being only in his 30’s, ND is a stepping stone for him if he’s successful.

This is something a lot of us have known for years. I know I have, yes, we tend to lose the "big games", but the extent that the HC could've done anything about it (at least against teams like Clemson and Bama) has been very little for some time now.

 

[Justin574]

It’s time we stop getting upset with coaches for losing games against teams like Bama or TAMU when we play them in a couple years. We are not under the same rules as those schools. It’s time fans get angry with the admin. not the coaches. Get pissed at MF if we lose to OK. State again or go down to the wire with Toledo, but it’s on the admin for getting waxed by teams that pay players. Jesus himself couldn’t coach up ND to beat Bama. If CJ turns out to be Trevor Lawrence, there’s a punchers chance, but it’s on the admin for likely getting ass pounded from here on out, not Freeman. ND should think of 12-0 regular season as ceiling. It’s so tiring to hear coaches say ND expects to win a title. BK said it all the time and he himself did not believe that was possible. Freeman knows deep down that’s a nearly impossible endeavor. If not, he’s finding that out right now. That’s why I believe, being only in his 30’s, ND is a stepping stone for him if he’s successful.

I've always blamed Jack for keeping us in the Dark Ages. Freeman apparently would've been able to drag us out of it just a few yrs ago, now I'm having my suspicions as to whether he can during this new NIL era. I don't even think I'd blame him if he can't, if Freeman can't reel in top recruits to ND, I doubt anyone can.

 

[Irish du Nord]

Has to be first because of QB (“Clemson Model”)

I think the Clemson model includes closing on guys like Keeley too. Their D-Line in 2018 was an all timer that has two five stars

 

[Luckylucci]

Okay which blue chip Edge prospects are going to okay strung along since April or heck January by us? Do you accept their commitment? Does taking 2 Edges then mean less of which position. 10 guys? Well that assumes you bat 1.000 you would need more than that. And again much of that determination you’re making in hindsight. Listen sure it’d love to have known we had a Top 150 Edge just at the ready. Everyone would. But it’s not nearly as easy, well why didn’t we have a backup. It’s like wanting a power hitter to never strike out.

As far as what I want to see or to the first bolded. I don't think it requires stringing guys a long at all. I'm offering guys, recruiting them, and taking commitments from dudes that can play when their decisions come up. Doing so up to a larger number per position group if I feel that some of those prospects are still actively looking elsewhere or if we have a huge need for numbers. Each decision, position group, and recruitment requires nuance.

For example, the positional need for S's is far greater than that of TE's. Every position group wants talent. Some also need numbers. I've been saying for months that I'd recruit 6+ DB's this cycle because of last cycle and the Bowen recruitment. Same goes for OL. We've been recruiting the OL so well that I'd easily give up an OL spot for a 3rd DE to ensure that if Keeley bounces we got in on the guy we wanted and landed 2.

Not to be that guy but no hindsight here. I said the Dante Moore recruitment was unnecessary risk a long long time ago. Been talking about extra DB's literally the entire cycle. Finally we got 1. I wanted them to move on Mickens much earlier.

The perfect balance of pushing for elite recruits while making prudent roster management decisions is taking more prospects at the "at risk" position groups or with the "at risk" recruitments.

 

[Justin574]

And that is why my main takeaway from all of this is I do not like this recruiting strategy. If a prospect is looking so are we. I know Freeman is trying to be the cool, "players" coach but this is the downside. If months ago, Freeman had the conversation with Keon that it's either all in or we'll continue to recruit the position like it's open, we end up at the same place. The difference is we'd have had months head start on finding a replacement.

We don't need to kick guys out of the class or give them ultimatums but I think we can be very clear that if you are going to recruited, from other schools, with this much vigor. Then, we're left with no choice to recruit this position the same. While continuing to recruit said prospect as much as anyone.

I don't see what that would change tbh. There are only so many scholarships available, so they can't just accept every other edge rusher that wants to commit and as long as a kid like Keeley tells them he's committed, they have no choice but to go for the homerun. Let's say they were looking around months ago, an edge rusher wanted to commit but staff knew that Keeley was committed and they need to keep some spots open for other positions...The end result is still exactly where we are now because they would've had to tell that edge rusher no, knowing that Keeley was on board and they would've found a program to commit to elsewhere.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't see what that would change tbh. There are only so many scholarships available, so they can't just accept every other edge rusher that wants to commit and as long as a kid like Keeley tells them he's committed, they have no choice but to go for the homerun. Let's say they were looking around months ago, an edge rusher wanted to commit but staff knew that Keeley was committed and they need to keep some spots open for other positions...The end result is still exactly where we are now because they would've had to tell that edge rusher no, knowing that Keeley was on board and they would've found a program to commit to elsewhere.

It's one extra scholarship. Two if you include another S for Bowen. Then Keeley and Bowen become the BPA's that you take regardless. Not that hard to get done. The difference is signing 5 DE's over 2 cycles versus 4. In the case of S, we literally signed 1 last cycle and have 3 this cycle. If Bowen bounces, we're actually short a S per traditional roster management numbers.

 

[BoredIrish]

I still don't understand what stops a rogue fan with deep pockets from just signing Keeley to a private NIL deal. If there is genuinely no involvement from the staff, how could it ever blow back on the university?

 

[Justin574]

It's one extra scholarship. Two if you include another S for Bowen. Then Keeley and Bowen become the BPA's that you take regardless. Not that hard to get done. The difference is signing 5 DE's over 2 cycles versus 4. In the case of S, we literally signed 1 last cycle and have 3 this cycle. If Bowen bounces, we're actually short a S per traditional roster management numbers.

Right, one extra scholarship for that one player, but who knows how many players that could include if we did that for every recruit who takes a visit elsewhere. It just seems like it's a lot of work that could have us potentially having to turn away commits at a position of need if/when players like Keeley end up remaining committed. Either strategy seems to have problems that come with it.

 

[Justin574]

It's one extra scholarship. Two if you include another S for Bowen. Then Keeley and Bowen become the BPA's that you take regardless. Not that hard to get done. The difference is signing 5 DE's over 2 cycles versus 4. In the case of S, we literally signed 1 last cycle and have 3 this cycle. If Bowen bounces, we're actually short a S per traditional roster management numbers.

Next year, there might be 5 players who are taking other visits, it doesn't seem that uncommon to me.

 

[stlnd01]

I still don't understand what stops a rogue fan with deep pockets from just signing Keeley to a private NIL deal. If there is genuinely no involvement from the staff, how could it ever blow back on the university?

A donor collective launched last week at USC even though the USC administration explicitly did not want them to. (Though it has said it won't do the upfront payments to recruits thing.)

 

[Justin574]

I still don't understand what stops a rogue fan with deep pockets from just signing Keeley to a private NIL deal. If there is genuinely no involvement from the staff, how could it ever blow back on the university?

I would think it's because the staff has some awareness of the NIL deals, they're just not able to make the offers themselves. So if that were to happen, it would get on ND staff's radar somehow and they'd shut it down.

 

[du Lac]

I still don't understand what stops a rogue fan with deep pockets from just signing Keeley to a private NIL deal. If there is genuinely no involvement from the staff, how could it ever blow back on the university?

Keeley and that fan have every right. Just don’t know who that fan is.

 

[jprue24]

I still don't understand what stops a rogue fan with deep pockets from just signing Keeley to a private NIL deal. If there is genuinely no involvement from the staff, how could it ever blow back on the university?

Florida High School Athletic Association rules. If Keeley signed an NIL deal now he would be ineligible to play this year.

There is a class action challenge to this rule currently working through the state legal system.

 

[du Lac]

Florida High School Athletic Association rules. If Keeley signed an NIL deal now he would be ineligible to play this year.

There is a class action challenge to this rule currently working through the state legal system.

Then don’t sign it. Verbally agree.

 

[jprue24]

Then don’t sign it. Verbally agree.

You have any reference that this would be legally binding and not end up screwing over his high school down the road? Otherwise, a verbal agreement probably wouldn't survive a change of heart.

I'm not a lawyer though so, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[du Lac]

You have any reference that this would be legally binding and not end up screwing over his high school down the road? Otherwise, a verbal agreement probably wouldn't survive a change of heart.

I'm not a lawyer though so, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Then why is he going to Bama? Clearly they’re paying him.

 

[Justin574]

Then don’t sign it. Verbally agree.

Well then maybe Freeman needs to throw out the Bat Signal to boosters like Saban did. Hop on social media, start complaining about how Bama bought Keeley from us and say "something" needs to be done about it lol.

 

[TorontoGold]

Then why is he going to Bama? Clearly they’re paying him.

Italics?

 

[jprue24]

Then why is he going to Bama? Clearly they’re paying him.

Are you really asking me to tell you what Keeley and his mom are thinking!?

I answered a question about if he could sign an NIL deal right now.

 

[jprue24]

Then why is he going to Bama? Clearly they’re paying him.

Also, you're going to act like they can't beat ND in a straight up recruiting battle?

It's not like this is a lesser school, it's fucking Bama.

 

[Luckylucci]

Right, one extra scholarship for that one player, but who knows how many players that could include if we did that for every recruit who takes a visit elsewhere. It just seems like it's a lot of work that could have us potentially having to turn away commits at a position of need if/when players like Keeley end up remaining committed. Either strategy seems to have problems that come with it.

Like I said, nuance is needed but if we’re being honest, it hasn’t been the hard to spot. Do we really have to go into the differences between CJ Williams and Amorion Walker versus Jaylon Sneed? Or, Keon Keeley versus Traore?

Keon has been showing up on OSU flip articles for months. He’s been flirting with Bama since January. He’s one of two commits that are doing this. Meanwhile Adon Shuler has offers from UGA and Bama and hasn’t visited either. Not every good prospect is going to require this. And not every position group will require this.

 

[du Lac]

Well then maybe Freeman needs to throw out the Bat Signal to boosters like Saban did. Hop on social media, start complaining about how Bama bought Keeley from us and say "something" needs to be done about it lol.

Works for me