2025 College Football Playoffs

[CoachB]

I had to finally mute him yesterday, he's such a whiny bitch. It's obvious at this point that he's using it as his primary means of clicks/interactions

Yeah, I unsubscribed to his channel.

 

[jprue24]

"Personally wronged"

My eyes rolled so far back in my head, I am now blind.

Fuckin thanks, Ari

I know this sounds cooler in my head, but I wish ND fans would just start bombarding him with shit about 1993 and to go fuck himself, respectfully.

 

[FWIrish4]

Notre Dame is the #4 overall offense and #3 overall defense. Also, they are the only team that is top 10 in all 6 categories listed. There really should not be any argument of ND being left out IMO.

 

[fightingirish26]

Odd they have OSU as the top defense despite ND being rated higher against both the pass and the rush

 

[Bane]

I really don't care about the Big 12, I swear, but the narrative that they don't schedule other P4 ooc is false.

As of mid-Oct here are the conference records against other P4

SEC - 10-3 (13 games/6 against ACC)
B1G - 7-5 (12 games/3 against ACC)
Big 12 - 10-6 (16 games/8 against ACC)
ACC - 7-12 (19 games)

There are a few rivalry games not included, yet. These games are rarely scheduled short notice so I think criticizing schedules should not be in a vacuum.

Cross posting this here from the Jeremiyah Love thread.

 

[sixstar]

Odd they have OSU as the top defense despite ND being rated higher against both the pass and the rush

clearly ND gets docked points for having Christian Gray

 

[NDPhilly]

Notre Dame is the #4 overall offense and #3 overall defense. Also, they are the only team that is top 10 in all 6 categories listed. There really should not be any argument of ND being left out IMO.

Fire Ash

 

[jprue24]

Cross posting this here from the Jeremiyah Love thread.

This is just disingenuously framing through cherry-picking.

Or is everyone going to pretend the SEC doesn't schedule plenty of FCS games (with only 8 conference games)? Or as ND fans, we are going to fault a team because their opponents happen to suck that year? Or that the B12 doesn't play 9 conference games?


I'd rather hear why the computers are wrong about the B12, but correct about ND

 

[Bane]

Cross posting this here from the Jeremiyah Love thread.

To further add context:

Exactly the point i was making earlier this week - needs to be shouted from the rooftops. These top B12 schools havent played a damn team in the top 30 of the 247 team talent rankings. We have truly no idea what they would look like against an elite team. Arkansas would be the most talented team on these schools schedules.

The B12 strategy definitely appears to be to play a mostly middling to weak OOC slate to artificially prop up the win totals for their teams so when they cannibalize each other they can point to "well we've beaten X amount of teams with 8+ wins" as a talking point. It's all BYU talks about.

I mean look at BYU's path to 10 wins so far:

BYU's schedule is kinda ugly too. I don't see the impressive performances. Maybe TCU?
View attachment 3061329

A FCS opponent, a bad G5 opponent, a terrible P4 opponent, and 3 1 score wins over other B12 teams (including a terrible Colorado team) and a blow out loss to maybe the only really good team in the conference.

 

[Bane]

This is just disingenuously framing through cherry-picking.

Or is everyone going to pretend the SEC doesn't schedule plenty of FCS games? Or as ND fans, we are going to fault a team because their opponents happen to suck that year. Or that the B12 doesn't play 9 conference games


I'd rather hear why the computers are wrong about the B12, but correct about ND

Arkansas would be the most talented team any B12 has played all season. And Stanford, BYU's P4 OOC game, hasn't won more than 5 games since 2018 iirc, so it was not a shock that Stanford has turned out to be bad. TT's one P4 OOC game was Oregon State. I wouldn't knock a team for having scheduled say FSU 2-3 years ago and then playing them now when they're not good.

 

[stlnd01]

Cross posting this here from the Jeremiyah Love thread.

What are these people on about? We never cancelled a game with BYU, did we? Last time we played them was that Shamrock game in Vegas in 2022, when they were an independent. Then they joined the BIg 12.

Ok, apparently we did? Like 15 years ago we cancelled three planned/future games. Had nothing to do with them being in the Big 12, it was b/c we joined the ACC and had to pare back other games.

BYU waited nine years to play Notre Dame. Why playing the Fighting Irish meant too much for the program to pass up

BYU waited nine years to play Notre Dame: Why playing the Fighting Irish meant too much for the program to pass up

www.sltrib.com

Regardless we do appear to occupy a lot of space in their head, for a team we've only played eight times.

 

[jprue24]

Arkansas would be the most talented team any B12 has played all season. And Stanford, BYU's P4 OOC game, hasn't won more than 5 games since 2018 iirc, so it was not a shock that Stanford has turned out to be bad. TT's one P4 OOC game was Oregon State. I wouldn't knock a team for having scheduled say FSU 2-3 years ago and then playing them now when they're not good.

Explain to me more about how the computer rankings for B12 teams are inaccurate, but accurate for ND?

 

[jprue24]

What are these people on about? We never cancelled a game with BYU, did we? Last time we played them was that Shamrock game in Vegas in 2022, when they were an independent. Then they joined the BIg 12.

Ok, apparently we did? Like 15 years ago we cancelled three planned/future games. Had nothing to do with them being in the Big 12, it was b/c we joined the ACC and had to pare back other games.

BYU waited nine years to play Notre Dame. Why playing the Fighting Irish meant too much for the program to pass up

BYU waited nine years to play Notre Dame: Why playing the Fighting Irish meant too much for the program to pass up

www.sltrib.com

Regardless we do appear to occupy a lot of space in their head, for a team we've only played eight times.

They were really pissed we moved the game from Provo to Vegas... really pissed.

 

[Bane]

Explain to me more about how the computer rankings for B12 teams are inaccurate, but accurate for ND?

Which computers and what B12 teams? I'm also not even sure what you're trying to argue, that TT and BYU are as good as ND? The B12 is a strong conference?

 

[Bane]

What are these people on about? We never cancelled a game with BYU, did we? Last time we played them was that Shamrock game in Vegas in 2022, when they were an independent. Then they joined the BIg 12.

Ok, apparently we did? Like 15 years ago we cancelled three planned/future games. Had nothing to do with them being in the Big 12, it was b/c we joined the ACC and had to pare back other games.

BYU waited nine years to play Notre Dame. Why playing the Fighting Irish meant too much for the program to pass up

BYU waited nine years to play Notre Dame: Why playing the Fighting Irish meant too much for the program to pass up

www.sltrib.com

Regardless we do appear to occupy a lot of space in their head, for a team we've only played eight times.

They think we're "ducking" playing in Provo.

 

[Bane]

Which computers and what B12 teams? I'm also not even sure what you're trying to argue, that TT and BYU are as good as ND? The B12 is a strong conference?

Kinda looks like the committee is over ranking TT compared to where “the computers” have them.



3 B12 teams in the top 30.



SOS in the 90s



This is a more dry way to say what I’ve been saying about BYU: they win rather unimpressively over a moderate schedule. They’re being weighed down because their game control is mediocre.


I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be seeing here.

 

[Bane]

Wow, I’m surprised he could find it in him to make that point.

 

[jprue24]

Which computers and what B12 teams? I'm also not even sure what you're trying to argue, that TT and BYU are as good as ND? The B12 is a strong conference?

...I'm replying to the cross posts. Those posts are trying to say the top B12 teams are propped up by scheduling, yes?

The computer rankings (all/most) do not validate that premise. I bring up ND because many in here point to computer rankings as validation of ND's quality.

Conference teams in the Top 50 of composite cpu rankings,

SEC - 13 (avg. rank 19.15)
B1G - 10 (19.1)
Big 12 - 9 (23.8)
ACC - 9 (33.4)

Massey Ratings - College Football Rankings

College Football computer rankings and polls, weekly composite

masseyratings.com

 

[NotKoon]

Miami beat ND out of conference, helped get them up to number 2 in the country. ND wss on a path that if they went 10-2 they would make the playoff. They lost to Louisville. They stayed top 10 and were still in position to win the ACC. ND remained on a path that if they went 10-2 they would make the playoff. Miami then lost to SMU and once themselves out of their conference title picture. Why should ND be punished and their path be changed because Miami fumbled away their conference title hopes?

 

[MPClinton22]

This is just disingenuously framing through cherry-picking.

Or is everyone going to pretend the SEC doesn't schedule plenty of FCS games (with only 8 conference games)? Or as ND fans, we are going to fault a team because their opponents happen to suck that year? Or that the B12 doesn't play 9 conference games?


I'd rather hear why the computers are wrong about the B12, but correct about ND

Why can't both of those be true? I think you'd find a lot of folks who'd agree with the general sentiment that the SEC also schedules in a way that inflates records to provide better wins for the rest of the conference. The fact of the matter is, the combined record of the P4 teams that Big 12 teams have beaten is 34-32, and they went winless against middle to bottom tier SEC teams (Mizzou, Miss State, Auburn)

Sure, they can't control what teams are any good at a given time. But they also show no interest in scheduling any big time matchups outside of their conference (in fairness, this could also be a case of B10/SEC heavyweights also not being interested in that)

But it's even worse for the teams at the top of the current standings. TTU, BYU and Utah had the following P4 OOC matchups:

TTU - no P4 OOC
BYU - Stanford
Utah - @ UCLA

So clearly the strategy works - those 3 didn't pick up any OOC losses (or even risk picking any up) and then TTU (and BYU vs Utah) gets a ton of credit for beating the others, who had zero difficult OOC games and an inflated record.

The SEC is guilty of this as well, but the B12 does this the most of any P4 conference.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Part of me doesn't even want to try to argue with Miami fans in good faith.

Part of me just wants to "twist the knife" by telling them "of course you deserve to be in before us", but we're getting in on name brand alone. Sucks to be you.

Every comment that would be made after that would simply be, "sucks to be you" or "you're not getting in over the ND brand" or "CFP committee knows ND brings more eyeballs" or "It's all about the Benjamin's".

I just envision the Miami fans torment of sleepless nights.

 

[jprue24]

Part of me doesn't even want to try to argue with Miami fans in good faith.

Part of me just wants to "twist the knife" by telling them "of course you deserve to be in before us", but we're getting in on name brand alone. Sucks to be you.

Every comment that would be made after that would simply be, "sucks to be you" or "you're not getting in over the ND brand" or "CFP committee knows ND brings more eyeballs" or "It's all about the Benjamin's".

I just envision the Miami fans torment of sleepless nights.

Lean into it, fuck them.

 

[forkbeard3777]

The wins against missouri, south carolina and lsu do not help your point

Ehh…Mizzou is a pretty good team, LSU has a really good defense, and South Carolina, while a weird team, can turn it on at times.

 

[Bane]

...I'm replying to the cross posts. Those posts are trying to say the top B12 teams are propped up by scheduling, yes?

The computer rankings (all/most) do not validate that premise. I bring up ND because many in here point to computer rankings as validation of ND's quality.

Conference teams in the Top 50 of composite cpu rankings,

SEC - 13 (avg. rank 19.15)
B1G - 10 (19.1)
Big 12 - 9 (23.8)
ACC - 9 (33.4)

Massey Ratings - College Football Rankings

College Football computer rankings and polls, weekly composite

masseyratings.com

I still don't see how this invalidates anything I said. The argument is that the B12 is a relatively average conference that plays relatively weak OOC schedules. Nothing about your post really dispels that for me.

 

[Dale]

Ehh…Mizzou is a pretty good team, LSU has a really good defense, and South Carolina, while a weird team, can turn it on at times.

Missouri, LSU and South Carolina have combined for ONE win over a P4 team with a winning record and it’s 6 - 5 Clemson.

 

[sixstar]

Part of me doesn't even want to try to argue with Miami fans in good faith.

Part of me just wants to "twist the knife" by telling them "of course you deserve to be in before us", but we're getting in on name brand alone. Sucks to be you.

Every comment that would be made after that would simply be, "sucks to be you" or "you're not getting in over the ND brand" or "CFP committee knows ND brings more eyeballs" or "It's all about the Benjamin's".

I just envision the Miami fans torment of sleepless nights.

you can't argue with people unwilling to listen. it's fun to confirm their rants and then taunt.

 

[jprue24]

I still don't see how this invalidates anything I said. The argument is that the B12 is a relatively average conference that plays relatively weak OOC schedules. Nothing about your post really dispels that for me.

Well, the argument is that BYU should not be in and TT is overrated, both because the B12 is actually not a "good" conference.

I'm arguing the metrics being used are cherry picked and a larger view of the metrics has the best B12 teams in the top 15 and aren't wildly far from ND

I'm using the computer rankings because those same rankings get used to show how good ND "really is" and I'm asking why they are not the same for B12 teams

CPU aggregate has

6 - TT
7 - ND
8 - BYU
12 - Utah

 

[Bane]

Well, the argument is that BYU should not be in and TT is overrated, both because the B12 is actually not a "good" conference.

I'm arguing the metrics being used are cherry picked and a larger view of the metrics has the best B12 teams in the top 15 and aren't wildly far from ND

I'm using the computer rankings because those same rankings get used to show how good ND "really is" and I'm asking why they are not the same for B12 teams

CPU aggregate has

6 - TT
7 - ND
8 - BYU
12 - Utah

Yes and all of those teams played atrocious OOC schedules. Glancing through that aggregator you have there some of systems have BYU at 4, that's laughable. I have neither the time, nor the inclination to sift through every single one of those ranking systems and figure out why they put certain teams where they did. TT has played a SOS in the 90s and played zero P4 OOC games but is benefitting (as they should) from exhibiting very strong game control. BYU has played a schedule similar in SOS to ours, but has exhibited very poor game control and their hardest OOC game was Stanford. Their loss this season is by more combined points that all of ND's 4 losses dating back to the beginning of last year. Their best win is a 3 point squeaker in the Holy War over a Utah team that's best OOC game was at UCLA.

But for the record, I never said TT should be ranked behind us. I respect their game control and their defense. I suspect they're a bit of a paper tiger, but I have no problem with where they're ranked at the moment. BYU to me is not a good team and will find a second loss this week or next and that will be that for them.

 

[jprue24]

Yes and all of those teams played atrocious OOC schedules. Glancing through that aggregator you have there some of systems have BYU at 4, that's laughable. I have neither the time, nor the inclination to sift through every single one of those ranking systems and figure out why they put certain teams where they did. TT has played a SOS in the 90s and played zero P4 OOC games but is benefitting (as they should) from exhibiting very strong game control. BYU has played a schedule similar in SOS to ours, but has exhibited very poor game control and their hardest OOC game was Stanford. Their loss this season is by more combined points that all of ND's 4 losses dating back to the beginning of last year. Their best win is a 3 point squeaker in the Holy War over a Utah team that's best OOC game was at UCLA.

But for the record, I never said TT should be ranked behind us. I respect their game control and their defense. I suspect they're a bit of a paper tiger, but I have no problem with where they're ranked at the moment. BYU to me is not a good team and will find a second loss this week or next and that will be that for them.

OOC is a single metric within SoS, like H2H or SoR. I don't understand why this is being used as such a definitive metric of a team's quality. It's especially odd to me that ND fans feel this way. Until this year, it has been the primary knock on ND and one that this message board has openly despised.

I agree that game control is a great metric to use, but from what I've seen, most do not understand how it's measured and ignore/discount it.

 

[irishnd31]

Lean into it, fuck them.

STD incoming…