2021 - State of the Recruiting Class thread

[Irishbounty28]

Uh oh, that sounds like an exception.

Isn't that all that Urban Meyer and Bob Stoops wanted? Like 3 a year?

Can u imagine three a year. That would give ND potentially 12 more star players every 4 years. That would dramatically increase the room for error and ND would be playing on a different level. The only caveat is it does nothing to help ND if those players become academically ineligible and can’t play. Has that happened at ND before?

 

[Sea Turtle]

Can u imagine three a year. That would give ND potentially 12 more star players every 4 years. That would dramatically increase the room for error and ND would be playing on a different level. The only caveat is it does nothing to help ND if those players become academically ineligible and can’t play. Has that happened at ND before?

It would make all the difference.

 

[NDIrish88]

Mike Goolsby made a fascinating point on the BGI post game podcast just now. Mentioned Avante Dickerson (.9451 4*). Has offers from Duke, Michigan, USC, Virginia, BC and Texas. He trains him and the kid is a 4.3 40 CB with a 6’4-6’5” wingspan. He’s about an 8 hour drive from campus. He mentioned he took the info of the kid to ND and they said he doesn’t have the grades. This is the second person in the last month (Pete Sampson) that has mentioned ND is hamstringing itself with its academics. ND always has and always will but he mentioned he doesn’t understand why the staff, with a great culture in place, doesn’t reach for some middling academic kids. It’s very frustrating that a top Midwestern DB is being turned down before even having a recruitment when DB recruiting has been pretty terrible. Goolsby mentioned he’s a great kid who wouldn’t give ND problems but is just an okay student. Not terrible student. Just okay. Craziness

Something else may be going on though. If his numbers are that good why did he commit to Minnesota? Early PT?

 

[NDisme]

Mike Goolsby made a fascinating point on the BGI post game podcast just now. Mentioned Avante Dickerson (.9451 4*). Has offers from Duke, Michigan, USC, Virginia, BC and Texas. He trains him and the kid is a 4.3 40 CB with a 6’4-6’5” wingspan. He’s about an 8 hour drive from campus. He mentioned he took the info of the kid to ND and they said he doesn’t have the grades. This is the second person in the last month (Pete Sampson) that has mentioned ND is hamstringing itself with its academics. ND always has and always will but he mentioned he doesn’t understand why the staff, with a great culture in place, doesn’t reach for some middling academic kids. It’s very frustrating that a top Midwestern DB is being turned down before even having a recruitment when DB recruiting has been pretty terrible. Goolsby mentioned he’s a great kid who wouldn’t give ND problems but is just an okay student. Not terrible student. Just okay. Craziness

That’s frustrating and disappointing

 

[NDdomer2]

No full story is no story

 

[BabyIrish]

I’d say Blake, Rocco, Lorenzo, Gabe, Tyler and Prince have five star capability.
I think Reily and Colzie have 4.5 star capability.

Not worried about the star rankings. We got some players.

 

[GATTACA!]

Mike Goolsby made a fascinating point on the BGI post game podcast just now. Mentioned Avante Dickerson (.9451 4*). Has offers from Duke, Michigan, USC, Virginia, BC and Texas. He trains him and the kid is a 4.3 40 CB with a 6’4-6’5” wingspan. He’s about an 8 hour drive from campus. He mentioned he took the info of the kid to ND and they said he doesn’t have the grades. This is the second person in the last month (Pete Sampson) that has mentioned ND is hamstringing itself with its academics. ND always has and always will but he mentioned he doesn’t understand why the staff, with a great culture in place, doesn’t reach for some middling academic kids. It’s very frustrating that a top Midwestern DB is being turned down before even having a recruitment when DB recruiting has been pretty terrible. Goolsby mentioned he’s a great kid who wouldn’t give ND problems but is just an okay student. Not terrible student. Just okay. Craziness

I just wrote about this in another thread. Your summary is much better lol.

But yeah super frustrating. Just to be clear Goolsby said Dickerson has a 2.9 right now, so I would say that's probably even a bit above just an ok student.

 

[Luckylucci]

Getting Tyler and Styles in early on offense seems like a big deal. Hopefully this Spring is used to really push these young talented players.

On defense, Barnes and Riley. Especially Riley. If Riley can stick at CB, he’s physically ready to compete. So that’ll give him a good opportunity to play meaningful snaps next fall.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I just wrote about this in another thread. Your summary is much better lol.

But yeah super frustrating. Just to be clear Goolsby said Dickerson has a 2.9 right now, so I would say that's probably even a bit above just an ok student.

Don't we at least have like a "gray" shirt type of option for dudes like this.... Basically the Tony Rice scholly?

 

[IrishRazor82]

I believe we just signed ~60% of our class with more 3 star players. Fast forward to 2023 when we have the same problem we had last night and we'll know why.

We get excited about ever commit and assume every 3 star was a steal. It doesn't cut it IMO.

 

[NDMatt91]

I just wrote about this in another thread. Your summary is much better lol.

But yeah super frustrating. Just to be clear Goolsby said Dickerson has a 2.9 right now, so I would say that's probably even a bit above just an ok student.

Didn’t Louis Nix have a 2.5?

 

[ThePiombino]

Getting Tyler and Styles in early on offense seems like a big deal. Hopefully this Spring is used to really push these young talented players.

On defense, Barnes and Riley. Especially Riley. If Riley can stick at CB, he’s physically ready to compete. So that’ll give him a good opportunity to play meaningful snaps next fall.

Yeah, really looking forward to Buchner getting passed up by a mediocre grad transfer and Styles fair catching punts all year...

The staff needs to get out of its own way next year, embrace the "rebuild" and let all these kids develop on the field. I genuinely would be ok with a 7/8 win season if it meant the young talent was getting a legit shot to develop. I hope the staff has the foresight to play the long con here.

In the interim, we 100% HAVE TO have a grand slam hire at DC -- I mean a dog on the trail, developer of talent, and wizard of Xs and Os.

Then and only then do we have any reason to be excited about 2022 (and really more likely 2023/24) as a legit title run year.

 

[irishff1014]

Yeah, really looking forward to Buchner getting passed up by a mediocre grad transfer and Styles fair catching punts all year...

The staff needs to get out of its own way next year, embrace the "rebuild" and let all these kids develop on the field. I genuinely would be ok with a 7/8 win season if it meant the young talent was getting a legit shot to develop. I hope the staff has the foresight to play the long con here.

In the interim, we 100% HAVE TO have a grand slam hire at DC -- I mean a dog on the trail, developer of talent, and wizard of Xs and Os.

Then and only then do we have any reason to be excited about 2022 (and really more likely 2023/24) as a legit title run year.

It’ll take more than Styles to fix special teams.

 

[ThePiombino]

It’ll take more than Styles to fix special teams.

That's kinda my point in saying the staff needs to get out of its own way. You have a guy like Tyree out there fair catching kickoffs on the 6 yard line. Fucking what?! You need your most explosive offensive player to do that? The kid is a thoroughbred, let him run. I don't give a s*** that he fumbled on the opening kick off. He's a freshman and this is the biggest game of his life, it's going to happen. Give him a chance to make a f****** play. The only chance we had of staying competitive was to get some points on special teams or defense. And you neutered half of that after the first kick off. I just don't see them treating Styles any differently next year.

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[benneboy]

That's kinda my point in saying the staff needs to get out of its own way. You have a guy like Tyree out there fair catching kickoffs on the 6 yard line. Fucking what?! You need your most explosive offensive player to do that? The kid is a thoroughbred, let him run. I don't give a s*** that he fumbled on the opening kick off. He's a freshman and this is the biggest game of his life, it's going to happen. Give him a chance to make a f****** play. The only chance we had of staying competitive was to get some points on special teams or defense. And you neutered half of that after the first kick off. I just don't see them treating Styles any differently next year.

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This is an ice cold take. Kickoff and punt returns TDs don't happen anymore to the point where this is a fairly old topic that most everyone has given up on.

 

[EifertPower]

That's kinda my point in saying the staff needs to get out of its own way. You have a guy like Tyree out there fair catching kickoffs on the 6 yard line. Fucking what?! You need your most explosive offensive player to do that? The kid is a thoroughbred, let him run. I don't give a s*** that he fumbled on the opening kick off. He's a freshman and this is the biggest game of his life, it's going to happen. Give him a chance to make a f****** play. The only chance we had of staying competitive was to get some points on special teams or defense. And you neutered half of that after the first kick off. I just don't see them treating Styles any differently next year.

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Well, i don't recall Tyree have any quality kick return all season so it wasn't like he's shown he's capable of making a big play. He also has had a couple of bad fumbles this season, so I was completely fine with the fair catching.

 

[irishff1014]

That's kinda my point in saying the staff needs to get out of its own way. You have a guy like Tyree out there fair catching kickoffs on the 6 yard line. Fucking what?! You need your most explosive offensive player to do that? The kid is a thoroughbred, let him run. I don't give a s*** that he fumbled on the opening kick off. He's a freshman and this is the biggest game of his life, it's going to happen. Give him a chance to make a f****** play. The only chance we had of staying competitive was to get some points on special teams or defense. And you neutered half of that after the first kick off. I just don't see them treating Styles any differently next year.

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I agree with you 100%. Just like the punt returns. The only reason we had success on the return side was because Foskey wouldn’t give up and blocked punts. Other than that our special teams were special again. BK and BP don’t do a good job here.

 

[ThePiombino]

This is an ice cold take. Kickoff and punt returns TDs don't happen anymore to the point where this is a fairly old topic that most everyone has given up on.

Well, i don't recall Tyree have any quality kick return all season so it wasn't like he's shown he's capable of making a big play. He also has had a couple of bad fumbles this season, so I was completely fine with the fair catching.

Under normal circumstances I would agree, but these weren't normal circumstances. This was David and Goliath. We needed points by any means necessary. Fair catching kickoffs at the 5 isn't gonna being the giant down. Sorry.

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[NDRock]

I believe we just signed ~60% of our class with more 3 star players. Fast forward to 2023 when we have the same problem we had last night and we'll know why.

We get excited about ever commit and assume every 3 star was a steal. It doesn't cut it IMO.

Yep. I looked it up not too long ago. From 2006-2015 we signed 85 3* players, 6 ended up good enough to get drafted. Two in the first two rounds. Almost half of our 5* players in the same time frame were drafted in the 1st two rounds. 3*s typically play like 3*s and 5*s typically play like 5*s.

 

[Free Manera]

Yep. I looked it up not too long ago. From 2006-2015 we signed 85 3* players, 6 ended up good enough to get drafted. Two in the first two rounds. Almost half of our 5* players in the same time frame were drafted in the 1st two rounds. 3*s typically play like 3*s and 5*s typically play like 5*s.

Which is right in line with the numbers across the board. Over half of all five stars are draft picks.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I’m all for bringing in a QB grad transfer someone who is 6’3 or taller and can sling it. With a healthy Lenzy keys and Kevin austin plus styles and jordan Johnson we could have one of the best offenses under kelly at Notre Dame. I just don’t feel like experimenting with a freshman next year unless he is wowing everyone in the spring

 

[Crazy Balki]

Yep. I looked it up not too long ago. From 2006-2015 we signed 85 3* players, 6 ended up good enough to get drafted. Two in the first two rounds. Almost half of our 5* players in the same time frame were drafted in the 1st two rounds. 3*s typically play like 3*s and 5*s typically play like 5*s.

That's not the full story.

ND has become SIGNIFICANTLY better at evaluating their talent since then.

2016: ND signed 12 3-stars (excluding Shannon, who's a LS). In that group you have:

Julian Love, Ade Ogundeji, Ian Book, Kevin Stepherson and Jalen Elliott all produced higher than their ranking indicated.

2017: ND signed 10 3-stars (excluding Doerer, who's a K).

JOK, MTA, Michael Young, Kurt Hinish and Drew White. Even though Young transferred, he's showing at Cincinnati, that he's going to have a career in the NFL.

2018: ND signed 13 3-stars.

Tommy Tremble, Ovie Oghoufo, Justin Ademilola, TaRiq Bracy, Paul Moala and C'Bo.

2019: ND signed 6 3-stars

We've already seen higher than 3-star play from Kiser and Liufau. Hart is also in the 2-deep at corner.

ND has signed 41 3-stars over the recruiting cycles of 2016-19.

18 of them have already outplayed their 3-star ranking, barring unfortunate circumstances with guys like Young or Stepherson, they still proved their talent ceiling was well beyond what they were graded as.

Make no mistake, ND is evaluating their talent A LOT better than they were in the early Kelly days and the pre-Kelly days.

 

[fightingirish26]

That's not the full story.

ND has become SIGNIFICANTLY better at evaluating their talent since then.

2016: ND signed 12 3-stars (excluding Shannon, who's a LS). In that group you have:

Julian Love, Ade Ogundeji, Ian Book, Kevin Stepherson and Jalen Elliott all produced higher than their ranking indicated.

2017: ND signed 10 3-stars (excluding Doerer, who's a K).

JOK, MTA, Michael Young, Kurt Hinish and Drew White. Even though Young transferred, he's showing at Cincinnati, that he's going to have a career in the NFL.

2018: ND signed 13 3-stars.

Tommy Tremble, Ovie Oghoufo, Justin Ademilola, TaRiq Bracy, Paul Moala and C'Bo.

2019: ND signed 6 3-stars

We've already seen higher than 3-star play from Kiser and Liufau. Hart is also in the 2-deep at corner.

ND has signed 41 3-stars over the recruiting cycles of 2016-19.

18 of them have already outplayed their 3-star ranking, barring unfortunate circumstances with guys like Young or Stepherson, they still proved their talent ceiling was well beyond what they were graded as.

Make no mistake, ND is evaluating their talent A LOT better than they were in the early Kelly days and the pre-Kelly days.

You are SERIOUSLY overrating some of those guys. Getting game reps does not mean you are playing at a four star level.

 

[NDRock]

That's not the full story.

ND has become SIGNIFICANTLY better at evaluating their talent since then.

2016: ND signed 12 3-stars (excluding Shannon, who's a LS). In that group you have:

Julian Love, Ade Ogundeji, Ian Book, Kevin Stepherson and Jalen Elliott all produced higher than their ranking indicated.

2017: ND signed 10 3-stars (excluding Doerer, who's a K).

JOK, MTA, Michael Young, Kurt Hinish and Drew White. Even though Young transferred, he's showing at Cincinnati, that he's going to have a career in the NFL.

2018: ND signed 13 3-stars.

Tommy Tremble, Ovie Oghoufo, Justin Ademilola, TaRiq Bracy, Paul Moala and C'Bo.

2019: ND signed 6 3-stars

We've already seen higher than 3-star play from Kiser and Liufau. Hart is also in the 2-deep at corner.

ND has signed 41 3-stars over the recruiting cycles of 2016-19.

18 of them have already outplayed their 3-star ranking, barring unfortunate circumstances with guys like Young or Stepherson, they still proved their talent ceiling was well beyond what they were graded as.

Make no mistake, ND is evaluating their talent A LOT better than they were in the early Kelly days and the pre-Kelly days.

I didn’t say those 85 players weren’t contributors, just that they were drafted by the NFL. More NFL talent equals a better team. Really, the only player you listed that can compare to Clausen, Floyd, Rudolph, Manti, Jaylon, Q, and Tuitt is JOK. Not another game changer in the bunch.

 

[fightingirish26]

I didn’t say those 85 players weren’t contributors, just that they were drafted by the NFL. More NFL talent equals a better team. Really, the only player you listed that can compare to Clausen, Floyd, Rudolph, Manti, Jaylon, Q, and Tuitt is JOK. Not another game changer in the bunch.

I mean I thought he was overzealous with some of those names but safe to say Love was a game changer

 

[NDRock]

I mean I thought he was overzealous with some of those names but safe to say Love was a game changer

True, very good player.

 

[NDMatt91]

That's not the full story.

ND has become SIGNIFICANTLY better at evaluating their talent since then.

2016: ND signed 12 3-stars (excluding Shannon, who's a LS). In that group you have:

Julian Love, Ade Ogundeji, Ian Book, Kevin Stepherson and Jalen Elliott all produced higher than their ranking indicated.

2017: ND signed 10 3-stars (excluding Doerer, who's a K).

JOK, MTA, Michael Young, Kurt Hinish and Drew White. Even though Young transferred, he's showing at Cincinnati, that he's going to have a career in the NFL.

2018: ND signed 13 3-stars.

Tommy Tremble, Ovie Oghoufo, Justin Ademilola, TaRiq Bracy, Paul Moala and C'Bo.

2019: ND signed 6 3-stars

We've already seen higher than 3-star play from Kiser and Liufau. Hart is also in the 2-deep at corner.

ND has signed 41 3-stars over the recruiting cycles of 2016-19.

18 of them have already outplayed their 3-star ranking, barring unfortunate circumstances with guys like Young or Stepherson, they still proved their talent ceiling was well beyond what they were graded as.

Make no mistake, ND is evaluating their talent A LOT better than they were in the early Kelly days and the pre-Kelly days.

Hart is in our 2-deep at corner because our current talent level at the position is not good and CB recruiting has been garbage the last few years. It’s the same thing with Lewis starting. He’s not starting because he’s a great talent. He’s starting because he’s the least bad of the current crop.

 

[WilliamWallace]

With all the recent attrition are we anticipating taking any more recruits for the 21’ class? I know we are sitting pretty heavy at 27 currently.

 

[stpeteirish]

We’re in the low 90’s now so probably just taking who we’ve got including Diggs. Limit is only up to 87 as we only have two returning who would have been out of eligibility if it wasn’t for covid

 

[WilliamWallace]

We’re in the low 90’s now so probably just taking who we’ve got including Diggs. Limit is only up to 87 as we only have two returning who would have been out of eligibility if it wasn’t for covid

Thanks, It seems the transfers were expected at least to some degree with the large class.