2021 - State of the Recruiting Class thread

[NDRock]

So...

What's wrong with Texas? Their last 3 247 classes are #8, #3, and #3. 5, 5 stars and 47 4 stars during that time.

How did Oregon lose back to back games to Oregon State and Cal? Both terrible teams, that don't recruit in the same universe as Oregon.

Why does Michigan suck so much?

What about UGA this season. Florida owned UGA this year but can't even sniff UGA's recruiting efforts. Why is that? UGA has recruiting finishes of 3, 1, 2, and 1 over the last 4 cycles. Over the last 4 cycles Florida has not even finished within 5 spots of UGA, one time. During that time, UGA has brought in 19, 5 star players, and Florida has brought in 1. What is UGA winning this season with all that 5 star talent?

If 5 star talent is so automatic then why are these teams not seeing the same results as ND or Florida?

Nobody is arguing that we don't need more talent. Every program needs more talent, every year, that's what recruiting is all about. But what does that talent look like? Is it talent that Barton Simmons has evaluated or talent that Clark Lea and company have evaluated for their system? What system is Barton and Company evaluating this talent for? What defense or offense are they running? Or are these things not relevant? It seems pretty obvious they are.

What is true in college football, you can squander elite talent but you can’t win championships without it.

 

[Luckylucci]

What is true in college football, you can squander elite talent but you can’t win championships without it.

I'll edit this to say, that this is a very true statement. But, it's how you arrive at that elite talent.

None, of the 5, LSU first round picks, last year, were 5 star composite players.

In fact, none of their first 6 draftees were.

 

[NDdomer2]

None, of the 5, LSU first round picks, last year, were 5 star composite players.

In fact, none of their first 6 draftees were.

That's great but I think what's getting lost in some if these convos are eligibility to ND, and how much more time a 3* at LSU/Bama/Clemson/OU gets to spend on his craft, watching film, etc. to one at ND.

You'll see I've made no hot takes post signing day or ACC-CCG loss.

I like where our programs heading. Yes, there's still gaps, and maybe we can't ever close them permanently or completely.

But they can be closed occasionally, and we just gotta keep knocking on that door. It starts and ends with getting a baller behind center.

Nothing against Book. Unbelievable career. But damn if this team wouldn't be another level with a guy like Trask.

But then I think maybe Book could reach another level if ND had Florida's pass catchers.

 

[Junkhead]

What makes it difficult for ND, (and this is my opinion), is that *most* 5* recruits have been sought after, coddled, asses kissed, etc. I think very few at the top level care that much about education, as they think they are NFL bound.

 

[Luckylucci]

That's great but I think what's getting lost in some if these convos are eligibility to ND, and how much more time a 3* at LSU/Bama/Clemson/OU gets to spend on his craft, watching film, etc. to one at ND.

You'll see I've made no hot takes post signing day or ACC-CCG loss.

I like where our programs heading. Yes, there's still gaps, and maybe we can't ever close them permanently or completely.

But they can be closed occasionally, and we just gotta keep knocking on that door. It starts and ends with getting a baller behind center.

Nothing against Book. Unbelievable career. But damn if this team wouldn't be another level with a guy like Trask.

But then I think maybe Book could reach another level if ND had Florida's pass catchers.

Not only eligibility but want too. How many of these guys want to go to class. You hear the stories from Joe Burrows, Amir Carlisle, etc about online classes at football factories. That shit is real.

So, ND needs to do it there way in order to have sustained success. And then find the elite QB that can put it all together. The goal should be to build a roster that is able to win almost all games on it's schedule. If you do that, then when you hit that QB, you win some playoff games in addition to that. Outside of Clemson and Bama, that is basically the recipe for every other team. The staff is doing a damn good job with a majority of the work, they just need that elite QB. Here's to hoping Buchner is that guy.

 

[NDRock]

I'll edit this to say, that this is a very true statement. But, it's how you arrive at that elite talent.

None, of the 5, LSU first round picks, last year, were 5 star composite players.

In fact, none of their first 6 draftees were.

Completely agree. I don’t care where they come from just as long as they’re elite. From what I’ve seen at ND, 5* players tend to be elite at a much greater percentage. Would be nice to get more. Really though, our staff does a very good job identifying and developing talent, IMO. We just need that generational QB to come around. Like a Cam Newton that cares about school. Any out there?

 

[Luckylucci]

It's also why I'd like to see the staff change their QB recruiting strategy. I'd like to see them go after more QB's and start taking 2 legitimate QB's every so often. Because just like every other position, you are going to find guys like Trask and Jones that nobody thought were any good.

And transfers, I'd like to see if they can pick off some good options in the transfer market. I don't like to see guys transfer out at the feeling they are being forced out but I think it's time we start rostering more QB's and have a greater competition at the spot.

 

[NDdomer2]

Not only eligibility but want too. How many of these guys want to go to class. You hear the stories from Joe Burrows, Amir Carlisle, etc about online classes at football factories. That shit is real.

So, ND needs to do it there way in order to have sustained success. And then find the elite QB that can put it all together. The goal should be to build a roster that is able to win almost all games on it's schedule. If you do that, then when you hit that QB, you win some playoff games in addition to that. Outside of Clemson and Bama, that is basically the recipe for every other team. The staff is doing a damn good job with a majority of the work, they just need that elite QB. Here's to hoping Buchner is that guy.

I'm with ya, we gotta just keep plugging along.

 

[NDRock]

It's also why I'd like to see the staff change their QB recruiting strategy. I'd like to see them go after more QB's and start taking 2 legitimate QB's every so often. Because just like every other position, you are going to find guys like Trask and Jones that nobody thought were any good.

Agree. Maybe take some guys with an elite trait (size, arm strength, running ability) even if they’re more project guys.

 

[NDdomer2]

Agree. Maybe take some guys with an elite trait (size, arm strength, running ability) even if they’re more project guys.

I think there was a little bit of that with Brendon Clark.

Maybe Pyne is the next Drew Brees but if the elite trait were looking for is accuracy why does it have to come at the expense of being a average sized QB.

 

[Luckylucci]

I think there was a little bit of that with Brendon Clark.

Maybe Pyne is the next Drew Brees but if the elite trait were looking for is accuracy why does it have to come at the expense of being a average sized QB.

Right. It seems like they fall in love with the quick release and that probably is more common is shorter QB's. Might have even thought he'd get bigger. And he sure does look small out there but I keep going back to the AA game where he was on the field with other 'elite' players and he did not look out of place with his performance. At all. So maybe there is something to this kid.

 

[NDMIA]

QB - Pyne & Buchner are the talented recruits with high rankings (I've got my concerns with Pyne's size but I'm still hopeful for him). I hope 2022 is a big time guy, also a big guy if I'm being greedy with a strong arm.

RB - Kyren, Tyree, and Estime gives 3 straight classes with a 4* RB and that's a good, solid thing to keep going. I'm very curious how the 2022 class will shake out, Taylor seems in it with a ton of big time talent. It's getting closer to championship level recruited talent.

WR - 5 4*/5* recruits in their last 6 dudes in the 2020/2021 classes. If Del can keep that going then it'll be hard to say it's a lack of talent at the WR position. 2022 is interesting because idk where ND will get their dudes from. I'd get Fleurima and hopefully push for Kevin Coleman, Kaleb Brown, and Tyler Morris. Another position where you can start to see stacked talent and depth that can get close to matching the upper tier teams (not there yet cause not the 5* ridiculous dudes but still extremely talented)

TE - There's not a more talented TE room in the country than ND's. Maybe some programs can match them but none more talented. The curious thing is I wonder how McNulty is as a recruiter and he did a nice job of keeping Berrong and got Evans and Nickel for 2021-2022. I think Nickel is a curious early take for them. He's solid, quite good, but he's not a game changer and I thought they would wait for a game changer this early in the cycle. Maybe I'm off base on that one but we'll see. Either way this is a championship position as long as Mayer is there and depth behind him.

OL - The 2021 class certainly fizzled from what ND fans were looking at. I still think Spindler, Fisher, Johnson, Alt and Coogan is a top 5 OLine class in the country but they were looking at tops in the nation with who they had coming in late march. 2022 is another one where Quinn has ND in it early with a ton of supreme talent and has landed two big fish in Chan and Tanona and now we'll see how he finishes with the last 2-3 spots. Overall, the position is talented, deep, and is a top 5 line in the country this season. They're more than enough to compete with the best of the best.

DL - This position is maddening. At the two interior spots you've got Ademilola, Lacey, Cross, Mills, Rubio and hell, even Spears were all 4* recruits. They've got tons of talent and it is highly recruited talent to boot. DE is why it is maddening. Elston seems to be infatuated with taking these hidden gems that have great length and frames. That's all well and good but for next season it looks like he'll have 3 4* guys and 6 3* recruits. I understand liking the diamond in the rough groups a bunch but at a certain point you are just not getting enough talent and I've heard that Aupui and maybe Schweitzer could've been higher ranked if camps happened but it's still annoying that with how good of a coach Mike Elston is, he doesn't get more heavily recruited talent. It also looks like in 2022 Elston will grab Hinish and Bauman who are surefire 3* developmental guys which would only add to his 3* coffers. That's why I'm rooting like hell for Tyson Ford and some more studs to join the fold.

LB - 2022 is a huge class for LBer because ND could need 3-4 dudes and I hope whoever is at LBer coach has the chops to grab Cheeks, Tafiti, and hopefully Snelling and maybe some more guys. Recruiting at LBer is a mystery because Lea is super picky on who he's going after and that's not always a big time 4* dude but rather maybe a positional fit that is under-recruited. I don't think our LBers are of the caliber of Clemson, Alabama, or Georgia outside of JOK for now but hopefully they can continue to get better and recruit big time athletes at that position group.

DB - ND just doesn't have a lot of ranked talent in the back end. I think they have solid talent but they aren't first round pick material like Kyle Hamilton that Bama is churning out yearly. I'm very curious how Mickens does with his batch of guys because he certainly got some clay with Jojo Johnson, Ryan Barnes, Chance Tucker, and Phillip Riley! ND's just missing a Ceyair Wright from the classes recently and hopefully that comes with winning!

 

[Free Manera]

I think it comes down to getting an absolute stud (i.e. 5 stars or just outside) at the following positions every year:

1. CB
2. QB
3. WR
4. DE

You NEED studs at these positions. No one wins championships without them.

Also, I get that 3 stars can develop into studs (Burrow was a 3 star on Rivals). But you want them to develop and beat out your 5 stars. Not be forced to play them because that is all you have.

Bama and Clemson take 3 stars too, everyone does. It's just that theirs don't see the field unless they beat out supremely talented kids ahead of them.

 

[irishff1014]

QB - Pyne & Buchner are the talented recruits with high rankings (I've got my concerns with Pyne's size but I'm still hopeful for him). I hope 2022 is a big time guy, also a big guy if I'm being greedy with a strong arm.

RB - Kyren, Tyree, and Estime gives 3 straight classes with a 4* RB and that's a good, solid thing to keep going. I'm very curious how the 2022 class will shake out, Taylor seems in it with a ton of big time talent. It's getting closer to championship level recruited talent.

WR - 5 4*/5* recruits in their last 6 dudes in the 2020/2021 classes. If Del can keep that going then it'll be hard to say it's a lack of talent at the WR position. 2022 is interesting because idk where ND will get their dudes from. I'd get Fleurima and hopefully push for Kevin Coleman, Kaleb Brown, and Tyler Morris. Another position where you can start to see stacked talent and depth that can get close to matching the upper tier teams (not there yet cause not the 5* ridiculous dudes but still extremely talented)

TE - There's not a more talented TE room in the country than ND's. Maybe some programs can match them but none more talented. The curious thing is I wonder how McNulty is as a recruiter and he did a nice job of keeping Berrong and got Evans and Nickel for 2021-2022. I think Nickel is a curious early take for them. He's solid, quite good, but he's not a game changer and I thought they would wait for a game changer this early in the cycle. Maybe I'm off base on that one but we'll see. Either way this is a championship position as long as Mayer is there and depth behind him.

OL - The 2021 class certainly fizzled from what ND fans were looking at. I still think Spindler, Fisher, Johnson, Alt and Coogan is a top 5 OLine class in the country but they were looking at tops in the nation with who they had coming in late march. 2022 is another one where Quinn has ND in it early with a ton of supreme talent and has landed two big fish in Chan and Tanona and now we'll see how he finishes with the last 2-3 spots. Overall, the position is talented, deep, and is a top 5 line in the country this season. They're more than enough to compete with the best of the best.

DL - This position is maddening. At the two interior spots you've got Ademilola, Lacey, Cross, Mills, Rubio and hell, even Spears were all 4* recruits. They've got tons of talent and it is highly recruited talent to boot. DE is why it is maddening. Elston seems to be infatuated with taking these hidden gems that have great length and frames. That's all well and good but for next season it looks like he'll have 3 4* guys and 6 3* recruits. I understand liking the diamond in the rough groups a bunch but at a certain point you are just not getting enough talent and I've heard that Aupui and maybe Schweitzer could've been higher ranked if camps happened but it's still annoying that with how good of a coach Mike Elston is, he doesn't get more heavily recruited talent. It also looks like in 2022 Elston will grab Hinish and Bauman who are surefire 3* developmental guys which would only add to his 3* coffers. That's why I'm rooting like hell for Tyson Ford and some more studs to join the fold.

LB - 2022 is a huge class for LBer because ND could need 3-4 dudes and I hope whoever is at LBer coach has the chops to grab Cheeks, Tafiti, and hopefully Snelling and maybe some more guys. Recruiting at LBer is a mystery because Lea is super picky on who he's going after and that's not always a big time 4* dude but rather maybe a positional fit that is under-recruited. I don't think our LBers are of the caliber of Clemson, Alabama, or Georgia outside of JOK for now but hopefully they can continue to get better and recruit big time athletes at that position group.

DB - ND just doesn't have a lot of ranked talent in the back end. I think they have solid talent but they aren't first round pick material like Kyle Hamilton that Bama is churning out yearly. I'm very curious how Mickens does with his batch of guys because he certainly got some clay with Jojo Johnson, Ryan Barnes, Chance Tucker, and Phillip Riley! ND's just missing a Ceyair Wright from the classes recently and hopefully that comes with winning!

Del is putting the work in recruiting but he hasn’t done that good in coach IMO. He needs to get more of out the receivers.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Del is putting the work in recruiting but he hasn’t done that good in coach IMO. He needs to get more of out the receivers.

Ehhh, I disagree.

Problem isn't guys aren't being coached up, it's they are just not available for one reason or another.

When given the opportunity, Del has developed some studs. Look at guys like Claypool and Boykin. Or even this year with our makeshift unit of McKinley, Skowronek and Davis.

But it seems like every year, you end up with at least one receiver who is lost for some reason.

2017-18 you lost Stepherson
2019 you lost Austin and Young
2020 you lost Austin, Lenzy and Keys

Guys need to be available. I also think our QB play has affected the impact of our receivers.

Wimbush's inability to read defenses and go through progressions in 2017 and early 2018. Book's inability to not panic and take chances.

 

[irishff1014]

Ehhh, I disagree.

Problem isn't guys aren't being coached up, it's they are just not available for one reason or another.

When given the opportunity, Del has developed some studs. Look at guys like Claypool and Boykin. Or even this year with our makeshift unit of McKinley, Skowronek and Davis.

But it seems like every year, you end up with at least one receiver who is lost for some reason.

2017-18 you lost Stepherson
2019 you lost Austin and Young
2020 you lost Austin, Lenzy and Keys

Guys need to be available. I also think our QB play has affected the impact of our receivers.

Wimbush's inability to read defenses and go through progressions in 2017 and early 2018. Book's inability to not panic and take chances.

The routes aren’t the best and it’s his job to teach them how to get open. Yes the ability of the qb has impacted some of this. Del has done a good job recruiting but it’s his job to make sure they can do it on the field. If he can’t then it’s time to find someone new.

 

[Crazy Balki]

The routes aren’t the best and it’s his job to teach them how to get open. Yes the ability of the qb has impacted some of this. Del has done a good job recruiting but it’s his job to make sure they can do it on the field. If he can’t then it’s time to find someone new.

Guys are getting open. Book's just not letting it rip. It's been a problem for the better part of 3 seasons.

You're not gonna have guys like McKinley and Skowronek breaking open with nobody within 5 yards of him. They're just not that fast. But they can get separation and get those contested balls. Books needs to throw them. Against Clemson the first time, he did. The second time, he didn't.

 

[dublinirish]

https://www.mlive.com/highschoolspo...UPd3yifZME0l_OU1BUzqP_Vg1-cdxe8oWc91ZlHLIrsd4

gotta messy situation here in the Mitt where they paused the football playoffs for covid a few weeks back and are now restarting them first week of January. However, many of the top players are early enrolling (Like Davison QB Brendan Sullivan, NW commit) and thus won't be able to finish their senior seasons with their teammates.

https://www.mlive.com/highschoolspo...-davison-to-enroll-early-at-northwestern.html

 

[irishff1014]

Us and Oregon are the only 2 teams in the top 13 without a 5 star commit.

 

[ThePiombino]

Us and Oregon are the only 2 teams in the top 13 without a 5 star commit.

People will look back on this class and marvel at how Styles wasn't a 5* recruit. Hoping the same for Buchner.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Southside Sully]

Us and Oregon are the only 2 teams in the top 13 without a 5 star commit.

According to what service? Rivals has the mayor as a 5 star.

 

[ThePiombino]

According to what service? Rivals has the mayor as a 5 star.

He's talking about the '21 class, Mayer was '20

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[irishtrooper]

He's talking about the '21 class, Mayer was '20

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

He’s probably talking about Blake Fisher

 

[irishff1014]

According to what service? Rivals has the mayor as a 5 star.

247

 

[irishff1014]

People will look back on this class and marvel at how Styles wasn't a 5* recruit. Hoping the same for Buchner.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

If I am not mistaken both of them dropped down the list on rivals too.

 

[Luckylucci]

People will look back on this class and marvel at how Styles wasn't a 5* recruit. Hoping the same for Buchner.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Very much agree on Styles. He’s a baller.

 

[ThePiombino]

He’s probably talking about Blake Fisher

247

LMFAO mea culpa

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[NDMIA]

Mike Goolsby made a fascinating point on the BGI post game podcast just now. Mentioned Avante Dickerson (.9451 4*). Has offers from Duke, Michigan, USC, Virginia, BC and Texas. He trains him and the kid is a 4.3 40 CB with a 6’4-6’5” wingspan. He’s about an 8 hour drive from campus. He mentioned he took the info of the kid to ND and they said he doesn’t have the grades. This is the second person in the last month (Pete Sampson) that has mentioned ND is hamstringing itself with its academics. ND always has and always will but he mentioned he doesn’t understand why the staff, with a great culture in place, doesn’t reach for some middling academic kids. It’s very frustrating that a top Midwestern DB is being turned down before even having a recruitment when DB recruiting has been pretty terrible. Goolsby mentioned he’s a great kid who wouldn’t give ND problems but is just an okay student. Not terrible student. Just okay. Craziness

 

[Sea Turtle]

Mike Goolsby made a fascinating point on the BGI post game podcast just now. Mentioned Avante Dickerson (.9451 4*). Has offers from Duke, Michigan, USC, Virginia, BC and Texas. He trains him and the kid is a 4.3 40 CB with a 6’4-6’5” wingspan. He’s about an 8 hour drive from campus. He mentioned he took the info of the kid to ND and they said he doesn’t have the grades. This is the second person in the last month (Pete Sampson) that has mentioned ND is hamstringing itself with its academics. ND always has and always will but he mentioned he doesn’t understand why the staff, with a great culture in place, doesn’t reach for some middling academic kids. It’s very frustrating that a top Midwestern DB is being turned down before even having a recruitment when DB recruiting has been pretty terrible. Goolsby mentioned he’s a great kid who wouldn’t give ND problems but is just an okay student. Not terrible student. Just okay. Craziness

Uh oh, that sounds like an exception.

Isn't that all that Urban Meyer and Bob Stoops wanted? Like 3 a year?

 

[NDRock]

Mike Goolsby made a fascinating point on the BGI post game podcast just now. Mentioned Avante Dickerson (.9451 4*). Has offers from Duke, Michigan, USC, Virginia, BC and Texas. He trains him and the kid is a 4.3 40 CB with a 6’4-6’5” wingspan. He’s about an 8 hour drive from campus. He mentioned he took the info of the kid to ND and they said he doesn’t have the grades. This is the second person in the last month (Pete Sampson) that has mentioned ND is hamstringing itself with its academics. ND always has and always will but he mentioned he doesn’t understand why the staff, with a great culture in place, doesn’t reach for some middling academic kids. It’s very frustrating that a top Midwestern DB is being turned down before even having a recruitment when DB recruiting has been pretty terrible. Goolsby mentioned he’s a great kid who wouldn’t give ND problems but is just an okay student. Not terrible student. Just okay. Craziness

Not to discredit the way ND does things but it’s not that difficult to take good students, give them tremendous academic support, and have them graduate. Take a few kids that might not have had the academic opportunities and turn them into successful graduates. That’s more impressive and difficult but potentially more rewarding (and if they help bring a NC, even better 😀)