2017-2018 Notre Dame Men's Basketball

Irish YJ

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This pretty much sums it up...
The toughest questions for the NCAA tournament selection committee

By the time Selection Sunday rolls around, the selection committee's job is usually fairly easy. Most of the bubble teams in contention have already played themselves out during conference tournaments, and the top of the bracket has settled for the most part.

That won't be the case this year. Even with less than 24 hours until the field is announced, there could be as many as seven or eight teams fighting for what appears to be one or two bids at the bottom of the bracket. Throw in a couple of potential bid-stealers and it's going to be a difficult stretch for the committee.

What are the biggest questions facing them as they enter crunch time?

1. Will the late-season performances of Oklahoma and Arizona State be a factor?
Win/loss record in a team's last 10 or 12 games is no longer an official selection criteria, but in a crowded bubble year, how Oklahoma and Arizona State finished could come up in the room. Both teams were ranked in the top five nationally toward the end of December, and both teams have totally collapsed in the two-plus months since. Oklahoma went 6-12 in its final 18 games, dropping eight of its final 10. The Sooners did win two of their final three regular-season games -- which could have wrapped up a bid -- but were bounced in the opening round of the Big 12 tournament. Meanwhile, Arizona State beat Xavier and Kansas during nonconference play but then finished 8-10 in what is generally considered a down Pac-12. The Sun Devils appeared to seal things up by beating USC and UCLA at home in early February, but they then proceeded to lose five of their final six, including an opening-round Pac-12 tournament game to Colorado. The committee has consistently claimed that the full body of work is what matters, and both Oklahoma and Arizona State have to hope that's the case. Because right now, neither is playing like an NCAA tournament team.

2. How will the committee view the gaudy-but-mostly-empty records of Saint Mary's and Middle Tennessee?
Had Saint Mary's and Middle Tennessee advanced to the title game of their respective conference tournaments, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion. But Saint Mary's was bounced in the West Coast Conference semifinals by BYU, while Middle Tennessee suffered a shocking quarterfinal loss in the Conference USA tournament to Southern Miss. Let's start with Saint Mary's. The Gaels finished 28-5, but their entire résumé essentially centers around a win at Gonzaga back in mid-January. The Gaels' next-best wins are at BYU and home against New Mexico State. They're just 4-3 against Quadrants 1 and 2. Middle Tennessee is in a similar position, with a better RPI and SOS but without an elite win. The Blue Raiders' three best wins have come against Western Kentucky twice and Murray State. They're 5-4 against Quadrants 1 and 2. Both teams have impressive records away from home, but both teams also have a couple of bad losses -- with Middle Tennessee's loss to Southern Miss coming in the dreaded Quadrant 4 category. It'll come down to what part of these profiles the committee focuses on.

3. Will the Bonzie Factor be a thing?
Notre Dame became perhaps the most interesting bubble team in the country over the past several days, playing itself into the mix by beating Pittsburgh and Virginia Tech in the ACC tournament before falling to Duke in a quarterfinal. How much will the committee weigh the absence of Bonzie Colson? After he returned from a 15-game absence due to injury, Notre Dame went 3-2 with the losses coming at Virginia and to Duke. Before he got hurt, the Fighting Irish were 11-3. But their at-large résumé is borderline with and without Colson. As it stands, Notre Dame has a low RPI in the 60s with a Quadrant 1 record of 2-9. The Irish have a win on a neutral court against Wichita State, as well as victories over likely NCAA tournament teams Florida State, Virginia Tech and NC State. But even with Colson, the Fighting Irish didn't have clear-cut tourney credentials. They lost to Ball State and Indiana and were run off the court by Michigan State in East Lansing. The eye test would say Notre Dame will get in, but the résumé likely falls short -- with or without Colson.

4. How much will RPI really be weighed?
The committee will supposedly have a diminished reliance on the metric. The three teams to watch for in regard to this question are Louisville and Syracuse at the high end and Oklahoma State at the low end. Were Louisville (39) and Syracuse (44) to miss the NCAA tournament, they would be the highest-ranked power-conference teams to be left out. If Oklahoma State (87) were to make it, the Cowboys would be the lowest-ranked team to be included in the field. From a pure win-loss perspective, Oklahoma State would clearly have a superior résumé. The Cowboys have two wins over Kansas, a win over Texas Tech, a win at West Virginia, two wins over Oklahoma and victories over Texas and Florida State. They're 5-12 against Quadrant 1 and don't have a single Quadrant 3 or 4 loss. Meanwhile, Louisville also doesn't have a bad loss, but the Cardinals haven't defeated a single top-50 RPI team and are 5-13 against Quadrants 1 and 2. Syracuse has top-20 SOS and nonconference SOS, but the Orange have two Quadrant 3 losses. They do have a couple of good wins, namely victories over Clemson, Miami and Virginia Tech. Will the committee set a precedent in either direction?


5. Which team is most at-risk if Davidson beats Rhode Island?
There's only one potential bid thief playing Sunday, as Davidson will face Rhode Island in the Atlantic 10 title game. San Diego State winning the Mountain West already shrunk the potential field by one bid, and Davidson could do it again Sunday. There are a couple of teams likely to be sweating a Davidson win the most: Arizona State and Saint Mary's. Looking at the field, one could make the case 66 of the 68 bids are spoken for. A Davidson win means there is only one spot left. Saint Mary's and Arizona State find themselves on the right side of most projections entering Selection Sunday; one of those teams would be bounced. If Louisville, Notre Dame, Oklahoma State, Middle Tennessee, Baylor or Syracuse still harbor hope of a bid, they'll be rooting for Rhode Island as well.

How about that subplot, though? Arizona State coach Bobby Hurley needs Rhode Island coach Dan Hurley to win.

ND fans should be Rhode Island fans today..
 
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NDGOLDEN

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I’m so nervous for what’s about to happen today. My mind is all over the place
 
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My College of Charleston Cougars are going dancing. The last time ....I was in college there.

Hope ND pulls it out
 

NDGOLDEN

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ND has 9 road/neutral wins.

More than Butler (6), FSU (7), Texas (6), OU (5), Creighton (5), Marq (8), ASU (7), Okie St (6), Cuse (6), L'Ville (6)

First thing Bruce said when discussing the bubble...how did you do away from home?

Took this off of head vs gut twitter account
 

Irish YJ

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Earlier this AM Lunadi and a few others we're talking bubble teams. When asked which bubble teams could do the most damage in the dance, he said ND and Louisville.

I really hope ND gets in, but I won't be pissed if they go to the NIT.
 

NDGOLDEN

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Earlier this AM Lunadi and a few others we're talking bubble teams. When asked which bubble teams could do the most damage in the dance, he said ND and Louisville.

I really hope ND gets in, but I won't be pissed if they go to the NIT.

Just about to post this same thing. He also said he would put ND in the field if he was in the committee room
 

NDGOLDEN

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Greg shaheen who use to be on the committee is on ESPN and said that he thinks ND did enough to get into the field and should be in
 

NDGOLDEN

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So what changed? ND was his first 4 out all week

Bonzie that’s the only conversation right now. Would we even be on the bubble if he was not hurt all year? No

All the guys on ESPN said their first pick in would be ND
 

Irish YJ

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It’s a good s curve but it doesn’t take into account how much the committee takes into account NDs injuries throughout the year. No one really knows how much they will put that into account

Not saying I agree with any of the at large selections. Like anything else right now, it's projection/opinion. It is a good view of how the auto-bids impact things.
 

Irish YJ

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Halfway through the first, Davidson/RI is tight and KY up ~10 over UT.

KY is peaking at the right time I think. Would hate to have them on my side of the bracket if I were a 1 seed.
 

Woneone

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Halfway through the first, Davidson/RI is tight and KY up ~10 over UT.

KY is peaking at the right time I think. Would hate to have them on my side of the bracket if I were a 1 seed.

The SEC is awful this year. *Edit - Awful is a strong word, let's go with "Overrated" instead.

Auburn overachieved, without their two most talented players, and lost their only guy with size late in the year. I think their starting 4 is a 6'3" transfer from Presbyterian or something. I would pick them or Xavier to be the first 3+ seed to lose.

Tennessee, while a great story, I don't think will make the second weekend. Again, a small team with no true "guy".

TA&M has been disappointing, and now are literally down to like 2 guards on the roster.

I love Colin Sexton, but Alabama cost me quite a bit of money betting on them this year. They should be much better than they are. They have size and good guards, just can't trust them away from home.

Florida is great when they shoot. When they don't, they are a 1 and done team waiting to happen.

It's a bad league. Kentucky has beaten the 9 seed and 12 seed in this bad league to get to the finals. Hasn't exactly been a murders row.
 
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Irish YJ

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The SEC is awful this year. *Edit - Awful is a strong word, let's go with "Overrated" instead.

Auburn overachieved, without their two most talented players, and lost their only guy with size late in the year. I think their starting 4 is a 6'3" transfer from Presbyterian or something. I would pick them or Xavier to be the first 3+ seed to lose.

Tennessee, while a great story, I don't think will make the second weekend. Again, a small team with no true "guy".

TA&M has been disappointing, and now are literally down to like 2 guards on the roster.

I love Colin Sexton, but Alabama cost me quite a bit of money betting on them this year. They should be much better than they are. They have size and good guards, just can't trust them away from home.

Florida is great when they shoot. When they don't, they are a 1 and done team waiting to happen.

It's a bad league. Kentucky has beaten the 9 seed and 12 seed in this bad league to get to the finals. Hasn't exactly been a murders row.

A lot of folks said the same thing about the SEC last year and they ended up having 3 of the great 8 while only having 1 team inside the top 10 rankings and only 2 inside the top 25. KY because of the one and done crap typically takes a while to gel. I do think they are starting to find their legs. They also could lose the first game lol.

I hate the SEC as much (actually more) as anyone, but you never truly know what you have from a conference strength perspective until the dance. Last year only one ACC team made it to the second weekend while 4 or 5 ACC teams were ranked in the top 16 at the end of the regular season. This year (out of conference), Duke lost to St Johns, UVA to WV, UNC to MichSt and WOF, Clemson to Temple, Miami to NMSU, ND with Bonzie to IU and Ball State. Anything goes when you get out of conference, and shit definitely happens in the Dance.

Every year is different. That's what is great about the tourney!
 

Woneone

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A lot of folks said the same thing about the SEC last year and they ended up having 3 of the great 8 while only having 1 team inside the top 10 rankings and only 2 inside the top 25. KY because of the one and done crap typically takes a while to gel. I do think they are starting to find their legs. They also could lose the first game lol.

I hate the SEC as much (actually more) as anyone, but you never truly know what you have from a conference strength perspective until the dance. Last year only one ACC team made it to the second weekend while 4 or 5 ACC teams were ranked in the top 16 at the end of the regular season. This year (out of conference), Duke lost to St Johns, UVA to WV, UNC to MichSt and WOF, Clemson to Temple, Miami to NMSU, ND with Bonzie to IU and Ball State. Anything goes when you get out of conference, and shit definitely happens in the Dance.

Every year is different. That's what is great about the tourney!

That's true, but if I'm trying to project a team or conferences success in the tournament, the obvious starting point is going to be overall strength. They could get 3 teams in the Elite 8 again, teams like TA&M, Kentucky, and Florida all have the ability to. But I'd lump them all in, the entire conference, as teams that need help with the draw to get it done. I don't think, based on what they showed during the season, that they can just line-up and play how they played all year to beat a good team.

But, I do agree with you, anything can happen, it's just we can only rely on data in the present to project future results, and I'm not a fan of the SEC right now.

And this is coming from your 2017 IE Tournament Champion (at least I think I won last year). I completely forgot about it.
 

Irish YJ

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That's true, but if I'm trying to project a team or conferences success in the tournament, the obvious starting point is going to be overall strength. They could get 3 teams in the Elite 8 again, teams like TA&M, Kentucky, and Florida all have the ability to. But I'd lump them all in, the entire conference, as teams that need help with the draw to get it done. I don't think, based on what they showed during the season, that they can just line-up and play how they played all year to beat a good team.

But, I do agree with you, anything can happen, it's just we can only rely on data in the present to project future results, and I'm not a fan of the SEC right now.

And this is coming from your 2017 IE Tournament Champion (at least I think I won last year). I completely forgot about it.

Never, ever be a fan of the SEC :)

I hate the SEC, but not a fan of the ACC either. My wish every year is that KY, KS, NC, Louisville, and Duke all lose in the 1st round.
 

Irish YJ

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with the change in station, looks like there's other changes as well...

That’s just one of a few new wrinkles in place for the Selection Sunday telecast, as it will also feature a live studio audience and—perhaps most significantly—a quick reveal of all 68 teams in the field and where they are seeded within the bracket that will be completed within 30 minutes. It’s a welcome change after the CBS edition tended to drag out the latter process for multiple hours, which was especially tedious in 2016 when the bracket leaked before the show even began.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkay/2018/03/11/selection-sunday-2018-schedule-start-time-tv-info-projected-bracket-and-more-for-march-madness/#3608d7ed6eec
 

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bcole2

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I read on Twitter that the NCAA tournament chair said in an interview that the 3 factors most used in deciding between bubble teams were: 1. record away from home, 2. record against tournament teams, 3. SOS. So I put together the numbers with some likely bubble teams against ND's. (record away from home, record against tourney teams, SOS). This is for 8 spots out of 19 teams. Honestly I think we have a shot.

Middle Tennessee (12-5, 1-2, 110)
Syracuse (6-8, 6-9, 43)
Marquette (8-7; 5-10, 14)
ASU (7-7, 4-2, 77)
Baylor (4-10, 5-13; 4)
Notre Dame (10-9, 4-10, 33)
Oklahoma (5-11, 6-8, 3)
Oklahoma State (6-9, 5-9, 5)
USC (11-7, 2-3, 73)
UCLA (7-9, 2-4, 65)
St. Mary’s (12-4, 3-1, 232)
Nebraska (6-9; 1-6, 59)
Penn State (7-9, 4-6, 60)
Providence (8-9, 6-9, 16)
Alabama (7-10, 9-9, 23)
Louisville (6-8, 4-12, 30)
Florida State (7-9, 5-5, 46)
NC State (5-8, 5-7, 55)
Texas (6-10, 6-11, 2)
 

NDGOLDEN

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I read on Twitter that the NCAA tournament chair said in an interview that the 3 factors most used in deciding between bubble teams were: 1. record away from home, 2. record against tournament teams, 3. SOS. So I put together the numbers with some likely bubble teams against ND's. (record away from home, record against tourney teams, SOS). This is for 8 spots out of 19 teams. Honestly I think we have a shot.

Middle Tennessee (12-5, 1-2, 110)
Syracuse (6-8, 6-9, 43)
Marquette (8-7; 5-10, 14)
ASU (7-7, 4-2, 77)
Baylor (4-10, 5-13; 4)
Notre Dame (10-9, 4-10, 33)
Oklahoma (5-11, 6-8, 3)
Oklahoma State (6-9, 5-9, 5)
USC (11-7, 2-3, 73)
UCLA (7-9, 2-4, 65)
St. Mary’s (12-4, 3-1, 232)
Nebraska (6-9; 1-6, 59)
Penn State (7-9, 4-6, 60)
Providence (8-9, 6-9, 16)
Alabama (7-10, 9-9, 23)
Louisville (6-8, 4-12, 30)
Florida State (7-9, 5-5, 46)
NC State (5-8, 5-7, 55)
Texas (6-10, 6-11, 2)

Ya man we have 10 wins away from home that’s great
 

IrishSteelhead

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This is the stupidest selection show ever. Why the fuck are they revealing team by team instead of bracket by bracket?
 
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