2014 Defensive Depth Chart Discussion

B

Buster Bluth

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Me2SouthBend said:
Starting on day 1 huh?
Click to expand...

I think that happening is 50/50 at this point. Grace had a major injury, Schmidt's/Deebs' athleticism doesn't even compare, and Moore is inconsistent.

The 2014 LB corp:

CAT: Okwara (JR) | Williams (SR) | Yeargin (FR)
MIKE: Grace (Jr) OR Moore (5th) | Deeb (So)
WILL: Morgan (FR) | Schidt (SR) | Sykes (FR)
DOG: Smith (SO) | Councell (Jr)

...but, really, dat 2015 LB corp:

CAT: Okwara (SR) | Yeargin (Fr)
MIKE: Morgan (SO) | Deeb (So)
WILL: Grace (5th) | Sykes (Fr)
DOG: Smith (JR) | Councell (5th)

That is a playoff-worthy LB corp.
 
M

Me2SouthBend

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Buster Bluth said:
I think that happening is 50/50 at this point. Grace had a major injury, Schmidt's/Deebs' athleticism doesn't even compare, and Moore is inconsistent.

The 2014 LB corp:

CAT: Okwara (JR) | Williams (SR) | Yeargin (FR)
MIKE: Grace (Jr) OR Moore (5th) | Deeb (So)
WILL: Morgan (FR) | Schidt (SR) | Sykes (FR)
DOG: Smith (SO) | Councell (Jr)

...but, really, dat 2015 LB corp:

CAT: Okwara (SR) | Yeargin (Fr)
MIKE: Morgan (SO) | Deeb (So)
WILL: Grace (5th) | Sykes (Fr)
DOG: Smith (JR) | Councell (5th)

That is a playoff-worthy LB corp.
Click to expand...

I was referencing what he said in the vid and that is a good breakdown of the roster. Add in Hill at CAT and Randolph at whatever position he pencils out at. And there is still Trumbetti and Williams if they don't grow to DE's. Oh My. Talent and depth.
 
NDBoiler

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Buster Bluth said:
I think that happening is 50/50 at this point. Grace had a major injury, Schmidt's/Deebs' athleticism doesn't even compare, and Moore is inconsistent.

The 2014 LB corp:

CAT: Okwara (JR) | Williams (SR) | Yeargin (FR)
MIKE: Grace (Jr) OR Moore (5th) | Deeb (So)
WILL: Morgan (FR) | Schidt (SR) | Sykes (FR)
DOG: Smith (SO) | Councell (Jr)

...but, really, dat 2015 LB corp:

CAT: Okwara (SR) | Yeargin (Fr)
MIKE: Morgan (SO) | Deeb (So)
WILL: Grace (5th) | Sykes (Fr)
DOG: Smith (JR) | Councell (5th)

That is a playoff-worthy LB corp.
Click to expand...

Don't forget about Randolph. IMO he's going to be making an impact in 2014.
 
IrishLax

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Buster Bluth said:
I think that happening is 50/50 at this point. Grace had a major injury, Schmidt's/Deebs' athleticism doesn't even compare, and Moore is inconsistent.

The 2014 LB corp:

CAT: Okwara (JR) | Williams (SR) | Yeargin (FR)
MIKE: Grace (Jr) OR Moore (5th) | Deeb (So)
WILL: Morgan (FR) | Schidt (SR) | Sykes (FR)
DOG: Smith (SO) | Councell (Jr)

...but, really, dat 2015 LB corp:

CAT: Okwara (SR) | Yeargin (Fr)
MIKE: Morgan (SO) | Deeb (So)
WILL: Grace (5th) | Sykes (Fr)
DOG: Smith (JR) | Councell (5th)

That is a playoff-worthy LB corp.
Click to expand...

We probably need to stop discussing linebackers as DOG-CAT-MIKE-WILL... no way that stays the same with new DC, and we're probably going to be playing a lot of 4-3.
 
TheChosen1

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IrishLax said:
We probably need to stop discussing linebackers as DOG-CAT-MIKE-WILL... no way that stays the same with new DC, and we're probably going to be playing a lot of 4-3.
Click to expand...

Sort of like they did this year. I think it was a 60-40 split.
 
ryno 24

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Lax BK has said he wants to keep a hybrid 3-4 and most 3-4's around have a similar style. Even under Diaco we ran the 4-3 45 percent of the time (eyeball test I do not have the statistical data) He may change the names, but they will probably have similar positions
 
IrishLax

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ryno 24 said:
Lax BK has said he wants to keep a hybrid 3-4 and most 3-4's around have a similar style. Even under Diaco we ran the 4-3 45 percent of the time (eyeball test I do not have the statistical data) He may change the names, but they will probably have similar positions
Click to expand...

Without devolving into a long explanation, putting a CAT with their hand on the ground is very different than running a true 4-3. If you want to say we had 4 down linemen on many plays, I would agree with that. But we didn't run a true 4-3 at any time.

I promise you that what you that next year you're not going to see "MIKE" and "WILL" ILBs when we have 4 down linemen. I would bet my bottom dollar that you're going to see some guys get coached to play an actual aggressive SAM linebacker role and that Jaylon at WOLB will be used FAR different than how "DOGs" are currently used.

In general, I just expect the responsibilities and terminology we've been using the past couple years to be completely inapplicable to the 2014 defense. 4-3? 3-4? Hybrid? Who knows exactly. I expect to see a lot of amoeba defense like Diaco, just a different type of amoeba. So we probably want to shelve those terms (and maybe discussions of depth charts/roles/responsibilities) until we get some clarity.
 
STLDomer

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Lax what would your preliminary prediction for the starting Front 7 be now with Tuitt gone??
 
rtrn2glory

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Jarron.....Springmann....Day

Jaylon....Grace/Nyles....Moore....Okwara/Ishaq
 
CanadalovesND

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rtrn2glory said:
Jarron.....Springmann....Day

Jaylon....Grace/Nyles....Moore....Okwara/Ishaq
Click to expand...

......

You think Grace would have to split time with a freshman, meanwhile, Moore (who may not even come back) gets the job all for himself?
 
IrishLax

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STLDomer said:
Lax what would your preliminary prediction for the starting Front 7 be now with Tuitt gone??
Click to expand...

I hate doing predictions so early... especially because we don't know what guys BVG will like and who he'll want to move where... but assume some sort of standard 3-4 or 4-3:

Williams-Day-Jones-Okawara/Rochelle
Smith-Grace(?)-Moore(?)

OR

Day-Jones-Rochelle
Smith-Grace(?)-Moore(?)/Deeb(?)-Romeo

Do we know if Grace will be healthy? What about Springmann after his setback? What freshman contribute immediately?

The only thing I would guarantee is Day starting on the line and Smith at weakside linebacker. I think Grace (if healthy) and Jones are close to sure bets to start somewhere as well. I don't think anyone has a clue for any of the other spots. For all we know, Randolph could start at some sort of SAM backer.
 
rtrn2glory

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CanadalovesND said:
......

You think Grace would have to split time with a freshman, meanwhile, Moore (who may not even come back) gets the job all for himself?
Click to expand...

i'm not sure Grace will be healthy enough at the beginning to play a whole game....i REALLY hope he is, but for some reason i remember hearing that his rehab's been a lil slow so i guess i'm going off of that. if not....yes you can go Moore/Nyles with a 100% healthy Grace
 
rtrn2glory

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IrishLax said:
I hate doing predictions so early... especially because we don't know what guys BVG will like and who he'll want to move where... but assume some sort of standard 3-4 or 4-3:

Williams-Day-Jones-Okawara/Rochelle
Smith-Grace(?)-Moore(?)

OR

Day-Jones-Rochelle
Smith-Grace(?)-Moore(?)/Deeb(?)-Romeo

Do we know if Grace will be healthy? What about Springmann after his setback? What freshman contribute immediately?

The only thing I would guarantee is Day starting on the line and Smith at weakside linebacker. I think Grace (if healthy) and Jones are close to sure bets to start somewhere as well. I don't think anyone has a clue for any of the other spots. For all we know, Randolph could start at some sort of SAM backer.
Click to expand...

Forgot about Rochelle....huge fail on my part
 
Ironman8

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woolybug25 said:
I would go:


Rochelle.......Jones........Day

Jaylon.....Deeb/Nyles......Moore.......Okwara/Ishaq
Click to expand...

Agree with this. Hopefully Springman, Hounshell, Matuska and a freshman can provide the depth. Utupo may be back now as well.
 
Brooklyn

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D-Line

CAT/RE: Ishaq Williams (Sr) - Romeo Okwara (Jr) - Andrew Trumbetti (Fr)
RE/UT: Sheldon Day (Jr) - Chase Hounshell (Rjr)
NG/NT: Jarron Jones (Rso) - Tony Springmann (Rjr) - Matt Dickerson (Fr)
LE: Isaac Rochell (So) - Jay Hayes (Fr) - Grant Blankenship (Fr)

3-4 linebacker group

WLB: Kendall Moore (Gr) - Joe Schmidt (Rjr)
MLB: Jarrett Grace (Rjr) - Nyles Morgan (Fr) - Michael Deeb (Rfr)
DOG: Jaylon Smith (So) - Ben Councell (Rjr) - Doug Randolph (Rfr)

4-3 linebacker group

SLB: Kendall Moore (Gr) - Ben Councell (Rjr)
MLB: Jarrett Grace (Rjr) - Nyles Morgan (Fr) - Michael Deeb (Rfr)
WLB: Jaylon Smith (So) - Joe Schmidt (Rjr) - Doug Randolph (Rfr)
 
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Ironman8

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rtrn2glory said:
any chance Ishaq gets moved to the DL full time with a new DC?
Click to expand...

I think you will see Ishaq with his hand down 100% of the time next year, and sometimes on the field the same time as (opposite) Okwara.
 
rtrn2glory

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Ironman8 said:
On pass rushing downs if you see Okwara - Day - Rochell - Ishaq with Jaylon in coverage at a LB spot, I think that is really solid.
Click to expand...

i think Jarron with another year of experience is the type that could be helpful in passing situations as well
 
Luckylucci

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Brooklyn Nasty said:
D-Line

CAT/RE: Ishaq Williams (Sr) - Romeo Okwara (Jr) - Andrew Trumbetti (Fr)
RE/UT: Sheldon Day (Jr) - Chase Hounshell (Rjr)
NG/NT: Jarron Jones (Rso) - Tony Springmann (Rjr) - Matt Dickerson (Fr)
LE: Isaac Rochell (So) - Jay Hayes (Fr) - Grant Blankenship (Fr)

3-4 linebacker group

WLB: Jarrett Grace (Rjr) - Joe Schmidt (Rjr)
MLB: Kendall Moore (Gr) - Nyles Morgan (Fr) - Michael Deeb (Rfr)
DOG: Jaylon Smith (So) - Ben Councell (Rjr) - Doug Randolph (Rfr)

4-3 linebacker group

SLB: Jarrett Grace (Rjr) - Ben Councell (Rjr)
MLB: Kendall Moore (Gr) - Nyles Morgan (Fr) - Michael Deeb (Rfr)
WLB: Jaylon Smith (So) - Joe Schmidt (Rjr) - Doug Randolph (Rfr)
Click to expand...

I agree that Rochelle starts. Another year in the system I think he'll surprise us next year. Moore will never be MLB in any alignment. MLB needs to call the shots and that's his weakness
 
STLDomer

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Trumbetti has to see the field some how. Just seems wierd not having him in the two deep. Don't know if he will be big enough to play 3-4 DE by next year. Overall he's my second rated recruit behind Morgan
 
Luckylucci

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STLDomer said:
Trumbetti has to see the field some how. Just seems wierd not having him in the two deep. Don't know if he will be big enough to play 3-4 DE by next year. Overall he's my second rated recruit behind Morgan
Click to expand...

Agreed, i think that Trumbetti makes it interesting in the LB/DE discussion. He'll force some playing time. With that said I think Okwara and Ishaq on the field opposite each other produces more sacks next season.
 
Ironman8

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rtrn2glory said:
i think Jarron with another year of experience is the type that could be helpful in passing situations as well
Click to expand...

Definitely could.

The loss of Tuitt hurts, but we still have some pretty good talent. Just have to cross our fingers we don't get hit as hard with injuries next year that we did this year.
 
K

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rtrn2glory said:
i think Jarron with another year of experience is the type that could be helpful in passing situations as well
Click to expand...

Agreed. Might not have the pass rush ability other guys do but has long arms to knock passes down.
 
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