Notre Dame Hires Mike Brown as WR Coach

NotKoon

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NDMatt91 said:
Just to play devil's advocate, is it possible that Graham and the rest of the receivers aren't all that good? II seems to think Brown doesn't trust them.
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I think it’s clear that Graham was a big miss. But you’ve seen flashes with Burress and Bettis. Fitzgerald was getting talked up in camp, Jeffery also impressed in camp. Frazier even got some time with the 1s during camp. Yet none of them ever see the field
 
Ophiocordyceps

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NDMatt91 said:
Just to play devil's advocate, is it possible that Graham and the rest of the receivers aren't all that good? II seems to think Brown doesn't trust them.
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ND has 15 scholarship receivers yet only three can be trusted to play. You either have recruiting misses and/or problems with coaching players up to the level of game performance. I'm not sure only 20% of WR roster being good enough holds up.
 
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Ophiocordyceps said:
ND has 15 scholarship receivers yet only three can be trusted to play. You either have recruiting misses and/or problems with coaching players up to the level of game performance. I'm not sure only 20% of WR roster being good enough holds up.
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I get not having a huge WR rotation, really no one does that is really good on offense.

But if you're only going to have a 3 wrs play then you need to be in 12 personnel and rotate those 3. We were in 11 most of the game vs BYU, so those 3 never rotated in/out for each other.

What floors me is how the staff is ok with their 80% effort on a lot of routes and blocking. It's obvious. You can't tell me those 3 wouldn't be better every snap they're in if they can get a few blows even within drives to stay fresh. Having them out for an entire series doesn't make as much sense. Freeman and staff have this issue on offense where they don't want to sub out on a drive. I don't get it, the NFL always does that. If you give a RB the ball a bunch of times early in a drive, when they get near mid field you sub them out so they're fresh when you get back into the red zone. Same with WRs, if you run a bunch of longer routes, you sub them out within a series. It's not hard.
 
Jiggafini19Deux

Jiggafini19Deux

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NDMatt91 said:
Just to play devil's advocate, is it possible that Graham and the rest of the receivers aren't all that good? II seems to think Brown doesn't trust them.
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Yes, it is very possible. These coaches work with these guys every single day. They're not names on the internet to them. They see their work ethic, skill sets, body language, attitude every damn day. Live and in living color.
 
fightingirish26

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As others have stated, if only 3 of our receivers are playable thats either an issue of talent evaluation during the recruiting process or an issue of development. Both mostly land on Brown.

But even if every single one of them absolutely sucks, which we know they don't considering flashes in garbage time, playing the 3 wrs 99% of the snaps at high altitude is just plain stupid. If needing to put Graham or Burress or Jeffrey out there for a snap or two is asking too much, what are we even doing here? We know there is physical talent in the room. Are the constant checks by Carr too much for them? If it was too much for just one or two of them, I'd say okay, it's on the player to learn what the fuck is going on. But for all of them? Coaching failure.
 
Jiggafini19Deux

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I would imagine this gets sorted out and Navy is as good of an opponent as any to test some things out on prior to Miami and the rest of the stretch run. I can't help but like what I have seen from Faison, Gilbert and Greathouse so far this year. Getting these other dudes up to speed will be key if this team stays on track for it's goals.

I just have a hard time talking about firing people in October, especially after a loss when large portions of the fanbase take to the internet while on the rag. Let the season play out and then we can assess.
 
Crazy Balki

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NotKoon said:
I think it’s clear that Graham was a big miss. But you’ve seen flashes with Burress and Bettis. Fitzgerald was getting talked up in camp, Jeffery also impressed in camp. Frazier even got some time with the 1s during camp. Yet none of them ever see the field
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I don't think it's clear in the slightest.

Graham, like pretty much every receiver outside of the top 3, has not been utilized anywhere close to enough to indicate they are misses or not. This is very clearly a coaching issue.

Graham hasn't even been given the opportunity to show he was a miss. He and the rest of the receivers are so poorly underutilized that it borders on malpractice.

If Graham was given chances like say Tobias Merriweather back in 2023, I could see it. Or if guys like Bettis or Burress were playing ahead of him, that makes sense. But he and the rest of the rotation are just left on the bench collecting dust. And when they do go out there, it's for like 2 plays, where they cannot develop any sort of rhythm. There is simply no excuse for that. The odds that every single receiver outside of Faison, Greathouse and Gilbert are just not good enough to see legitimate reps and targets are almost ZERO.

It would require developmental or recruiting failures of the absolute highest order for that to be remotely accurate. Simply put, this cannot continue. You are setting them up for failure doing that, and you're setting the top 3 receivers up for failure as well.
 
Crazy Balki

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2013Irish said:
Tim Hyde said the same thing. It feels like kind of manufactured outrage, particularly considering how well Greathouse played.
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One guy having a good game does not absolve the coach from criticism.

Nolan James played well. That doesn't absolve Seider of his baffling under-utilization of Walton.

The outrage is absolutely not manufactured. When you have 3 guys taking nearly an entirety of the receiver snaps, that is a very real problem. It calls into question the recruiting strategy, the development and the utilization of the receivers as a whole. If we're at the point where only 3 guys can be trusted to take even a moderate amount of snaps, then something is very clearly wrong.
 
Crazy Balki

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Jiggafini19Deux said:
Source?
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That wasn't really a statement of fact, but more so my opinion. Albeit, an opinion based on the on-field results.

Brown has simply not done a good job this year so far, and his track record since arriving at ND has not warranted his retention. Things need to change and they need to change immediately for me to feel confident that he's sticking around. Same goes for Ash.
 
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Yeah I'm with Balki how can you judge guys are a big miss when they get in for 2 plays and then get taken out. Graham made a few nice plays when giving the opportunity early on but got erased from penalties.
 
Jiggafini19Deux

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NDFAN2008 said:
Yeah I'm with Balki how can you judge guys are a big miss when they get in for 2 plays and then get taken out. Graham made a few nice plays when giving the opportunity early on but got erased from penalties.
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By seeing them every day in practice
 
Jiggafini19Deux

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Crazy Balki said:
That wasn't really a statement of fact, but more so my opinion. Albeit, an opinion based on the on-field results.

Brown has simply not done a good job this year so far, and his track record since arriving at ND has not warranted his retention. Things need to change and they need to change immediately for me to feel confident that he's sticking around. Same goes for Ash.
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This thread had not been touched since March prior to them losing to BYU. You'd think these concerns about the WR would be found here as much as anywhere. This boils down to the BYU game and lack of rotation along with the true freshmen on the roster not playing enough to certain people's liking. That's really it. If the people who matter agree at the end of the season, Brown will be gone, but sitting here in October looking on field results and track record after a highly emotional defeat sort of rings hollow.

I'll say the same for Ash and leave it. This is Brown's thread.

What our own fans as well as our haters forget is that these "easy" games were not always easy, even under Freeman, let alone going back to Kelly. That many double digit wins in a row doesn't just happen. That isn't a frequent occurrence. They lost a game, not the season, but if people are conceding defeat to Navy or Miami or whomever that's totally their business. I don't think you tear anything off until the season is over. Whenever that might be.

We're talking about things like getting rid of coaches after an emotional loss, which makes it incredibly premature and unfair. There is one month and five games at least to try to get things better so everyone feels warm and fuzzy. Freshmen typically do not just walk in and start taking reps from veteran players. Some of the ones who do are doing it in separate circumstances and are recruits a lot of people here would scoff at and piss on for being three stars or not having fast enough forty times. Let them work with these guys and finish out a season. They're college kids at a real college. They're not taking major reps away, which is normal.
 
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Jiggafini19Deux

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Crazy Balki said:
I mean, reports on Graham in the spring and fall camp were pretty favorable.

If nobody outside of the big 3 are showing out in practice, that's a coaching failure. There is zero excuse for that many players performing poorly in practice.
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Then the real football started. Plenty of dudes here run around in their underwear all August and when the first Saturday in September comes, they go limp in the bedroom.

They're college kids. True freshmen. Injuries. Maybe they're not that good. There are dozens of posts pissing on Jerome Bettis Jr. now he's not getting reps and you all are surprised?

I don't know what the answer is. They've signed guys, used the portal, they've made efforts at the position. They even have the QB, right now, who is being given high NFL projections. It could be a combination of a lot of things, but pulling the plug on the WR coach after an emotional loss isn't good business sense. Period.
 
IRISHDODGER

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ColinKSU said:
If all but three of the receivers are bad and Mike Brown recruited and coached them all, whose fault is that?
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But one can counter that Brown took a LAX player who walked on and developed him into a future NFL WR. Gilbert has developed into a quality starter. Greathouse has dealt with injuries but developed into a WR who can make plays and move the chains.
 
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No one that’s any good rotates 6-7 receivers equally. It’s not the D-Line; the top 3 do need like one series worth of plays per half off for a break though.

I can’t believe any scheme is too complex to not allow for that; especially when 2 TE’s is a package you use.

End of BYU - was terrible, they were gassed. I think it’s just preference (and foolish) and it never came back to bite them - until BYU.
 
Dale

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Interesting thread to tug on, Contested Catch %:

2026: Gilbert - 28.6%
2025: Fields - 47.8%
2024: Collins - 60%*
2023: Thomas - 53.8%
2022: Boutte - 45.5%
2021: Pierce - 46.7%

*much lower volume of attempts

Denbrock has had a NFL boundary WR for 4 of his last 5 years. Collins while I know he’s floating out there in some capacity is the exception but that offense was just different top to bottom.

It’s not really Gilbert’s fault. He’s just not a boundary WR. He’s more of a big slot. The issue with the WR room is not ability as much as it’s like 70% slot WRs. This has has really been felt in the red zone and some “easy button” back shoulder type throws.

Looking ahead I think Bettis is a true boundary WR, I just don’t know how good of one. Porter obviously is but who the f knows at his point. Fitzgerald…maybe? Idk if I see it completely. They probably need to spend millions on a starting boundary and backup this winter.
 
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Dale said:
Interesting thread to tug on, Contested Catch %:

2026: Gilbert - 28.6%
2025: Fields - 47.8%
2024: Collins - 60%*
2023: Thomas - 53.8%
2022: Boutte - 45.5%
2021: Pierce - 46.7%

*much lower volume of attempts

Denbrock has had a NFL boundary WR for 4 of his last 5 years. Collins while I know he’s floating out there in some capacity is the exception but that offense was just different too to bottom.

It’s not really Gilbert’s fault. He’s just not a boundary WR. He’s more of a big slot. The issue with the WR is not ability as much as it’s like 70% slot WRs. This has has really been felt in the red zone and some “easy button” back shoulder type throws.
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People don’t respect the boundary, we should have broke the bank for KJ duff
 
Dale

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allenm5333 said:
People don’t respect the boundary, we should have broke the bank for KJ duff
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Even Ian Strong all he basically does is make contested catches. You can have better players but at some point guys have to slide into a proper role. And trotting out three slot WRs is limiting
 
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Dale said:
Even Ian Strong all he basically does is make contested catches. You can have better players but at some point guys have to slide into a proper role. And trotting out three slot WRs is limiting
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A wr and te core should be a basketball starting five
 
stlnd01

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Dale said:
Even Ian Strong all he basically does is make contested catches. You can have better players but at some point guys have to slide into a proper role. And trotting out three slot WRs is limiting
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This right here is the problem with our passing game. More reps for Graham isn't going to help that. We need(ed) Cam Williams to develop, Burris/Bettis to emerge, or, ideally, a healthy Porter.
 
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this is crazy talk that we need a massive boundary wr…

You know what we in the nfl crushed it playing a good bit of boundary? Tyreek hill!!

The best teams get their playmakers on the field in different matchups.

The issue is our route concepts. We should be using our speed and depth on more crossers, even from boundary. Utilize PA and our strong run game to suck the lbs in. The problem is we are running an offense like we have fields at boundary, fuller at field, and Faison at slot…. Faison is a slot, greathouse should be boundary with Gilbert and graham and Burress at field.

And move them all around to spell each other and get better matchups
 
Dale

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It’s nice having a big catch radius at boundary, asterisk unless we get one of the best, most dynamic NFL WRs of all time
 
IA4irish

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IRISHDODGER said:
But one can counter that Brown took a LAX player who walked on and developed him into a future NFL WR. Gilbert has developed into a quality starter. Greathouse has dealt with injuries but developed into a WR who can make plays and move the chains.
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One can counter that Faison has freakish twitch and would be good no matter who the coach would be. Also, greathouse could make plays and move the chains as a freshman before Brown was the coach. I’ll give you Gilbert.

My thing with brown is that these past three classes of recruits are your guys - you couldn’t develop one of these four stars besides Gilbert to even sniff the field? There is talent there.
 
FWIrish4

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Dale said:
Interesting thread to tug on, Contested Catch %:

2026: Gilbert - 28.6%
2025: Fields - 47.8%
2024: Collins - 60%*
2023: Thomas - 53.8%
2022: Boutte - 45.5%
2021: Pierce - 46.7%

*much lower volume of attempts

Denbrock has had a NFL boundary WR for 4 of his last 5 years. Collins while I know he’s floating out there in some capacity is the exception but that offense was just different top to bottom.

It’s not really Gilbert’s fault. He’s just not a boundary WR. He’s more of a big slot. The issue with the WR room is not ability as much as it’s like 70% slot WRs. This has has really been felt in the red zone and some “easy button” back shoulder type throws.

Looking ahead I think Bettis is a true boundary WR, I just don’t know how good of one. Porter obviously is but who the f knows at his point. Fitzgerald…maybe? Idk if I see it completely. They probably need to spend millions on a starting boundary and backup this winter.
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While I agree with this, are we suited to take advantage of this type of receiver? I’m thinking this is a combination of what we’re asking the boundary to do than solely Micah Gilbert being the wrong body type.

Carr being right next to Marcel Reed in any category is no bueno.

 
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