Chris "Belt To" Ash - Defensive Coordinator

P

PutuporShutup

Well-known member
Messages
4,955
Reaction score
2,006
Veritate Duce Progredi said:
I've had this thought before the game and I really wish I would've shared it. He has trouble identifying what he's seeing in the moment. We rarely make in-game adjustments. We have a game plan, we have halftime adjustments and we live with the results.

BVG was remembered for wasting Jaylon Smith.

Imagine how we're going to remember Chris Ash for wasting more NFL talent than we've ever had on a defense (not to mention he wasted the last year we had with Love and Price). I'm going to curse his name for the rest of my life. We started this year with every possible benefit. NFL talent littered throughout, a schedule that lets you build over the season, known commodities at key positions.

This is nothing short of the biggest collapse I've ever seen as a fan. I've been watching a long time and lived through awful seasons. The delta between what they should be and what they are is the biggest I've ever seen. They should've steamrolled that BYU team.

You know what gave me the worst feeling before and during the game: Freeman's smirk while on camera during big moments in the game. He looked like he was conscious of his image rather than in the moment. An ego pulls a man away from his duties.
Click to expand...
If we miss the CFPs two years in a row with the team we had in 25 and this year in 26, you don't fire freeman, but both coordinators need to be gone so fast, especially Ash. Despite denbrocks terrible game play, player usage, etc you see how we left easy points out there, a lot of them. There wasn't any plays our D was prepared to make that they left out there. It was just all out terrible plan by Ash. Very similar to our two losses last year and first half vs purdue last year. Complete confusion and passive soft zone.

ND 25 and 26 aren't overrated teams like say Alabama, and Texas that statistically are not great. ND both years is one of the clear favorites to win it all late in the year, and statistically using power indexes clearly one of the best teams. Last year we were #3, this year we are #2 even with our losses both years. That tells you we have really good teams that are losing games they shouldn't. A&M last year, and BYU this year so far.

I just can't even comprehend the melt down I will have and every other ND fan should have if ND loses another regular season game this year.
 
Bane

Bane

Well-known member
Messages
2,820
Reaction score
5,773
Dale said:
What was Lea’s best performance against a legit offense?

2020 UNC? He got torn up by Clemson 3 times. Alabama game. 2019 Michigan was ugly, 2018 was good but neither of those offenses were anything special. It’s probably 2019 Georgia in terms of weight class.
Click to expand...
Lea had less talent on those defenses though. If Ash had the defenses Lea had he would have looked like BVG.
 
Dale

Dale

Well-known member
Messages
19,878
Reaction score
34,862
Bane said:
Lea had less talent on those defenses though. If Ash had the defenses Lea had he would have looked like BVG.
Click to expand...

Just asking the question. I also remember the board reaction to end of 2020 season. They were top heavy but the NFL talent on those teams were no slouches. Lea also still hasn’t fielded a good defense at Vandy.
 
P

PutuporShutup

Well-known member
Messages
4,955
Reaction score
2,006
Jimmy3Putt said:
Am I the only one who remembers the Freeman defense? Three down lineman getting blown up at the LOS?

Keep him at CEO.
Click to expand...
Exactly. We're still doing some of that crap this year. Worst thing that happened was it worked vs stanford. You know who it doesn't work against, a good offense. Having traore 15 yards downfield in zone is just stupid. Rushing 3 and dropping ends and not blitzing lbs is crazy to me. I'm ok dropping an end into the flat if you have a good blitz and scouted a quick throw first read you want to take away.

Freeman can't fix this D, it's on ash. But, Freeman does need to say F it just play man 75% of the time.
 
GATTACA!

GATTACA!

It's about to get gross
Messages
15,888
Reaction score
13,895
PutuporShutup said:
Exactly. We're still doing some of that crap this year. Worst thing that happened was it worked vs stanford. You know who it doesn't work against, a good offense. Having traore 15 yards downfield in zone is just stupid. Rushing 3 and dropping ends and not blitzing lbs is crazy to me. I'm ok dropping an end into the flat if you have a good blitz and scouted a quick throw first read you want to take away.

Freeman can't fix this D, it's on ash. But, Freeman does need to say F it just play man 75% of the time.
Click to expand...
Play man and bring heat. Force college QBs to prove they can beat you. This isn't the NFL where even bad QBs should be able to carve you apart with hot routes.

Bludgeon people with your talent advantage.
 
P

PutuporShutup

Well-known member
Messages
4,955
Reaction score
2,006
GATTACA! said:
Play man and bring heat. Force college QBs to prove they can beat you. This isn't the NFL where even bad QBs should be able to carve you apart with hot routes.

Bludgeon people with your talent advantage.
Click to expand...
Yep.

Also, i'm running a good bit of 4 -1-6 vs Miami with 3 safeties if Tae is back. I'm playing Obrien, Tae, and talich a ton. Against 12 personnel i'm going 4-2-5 with 3 safeties unless it's inside the 5. Our Lbs are not playing well, especially in coverage. My thought is when Tae is back you have to play both Tae and Talich ALL game. We can't take talich off the field when Tae is back, hopefully that's not debatable? Shuler just isn't good enough. Hate to say it, but it's obvious. I just think Talich can handle the run game better than ausberry and he's clearly better in coverage than any of our LBs.

I'm playing a ton of Man but disguising my blitz packages and what i'm doing in coverage with my safeties. Obrien, Tae, and Talich can cover a lot of ground and can really cover and help.

Mallory for Miami is a burner and we need to defend the outside stuff well vs him, I like talich doing that better than ausberry. Fletcher is slower and more power. Their OL isn't as powerful as last year so our DL can really slow down the inside runs IMO. It's all about outside runs and passing game.
 
A

allenm5333

Well-known member
Messages
4,077
Reaction score
3,944
PutuporShutup said:
Yep.

Also, i'm running a good bit of 4 -1-6 vs Miami with 3 safeties if Tae is back. I'm playing Obrien, Tae, and talich a ton. Against 12 personnel i'm going 4-2-5 with 3 safeties unless it's inside the 5. Our Lbs are not playing well, especially in coverage. My thought is when Tae is back you have to play both Tae and Talich ALL game. We can't take talich off the field when Tae is back, hopefully that's not debatable? Shuler just isn't good enough. Hate to say it, but it's obvious. I just think Talich can handle the run game better than ausberry and he's clearly better in coverage than any of our LBs.

I'm playing a ton of Man but disguising my blitz packages and what i'm doing in coverage with my safeties. Obrien, Tae, and Talich can cover a lot of ground and can really cover and help.

Mallory for Miami is a burner and we need to defend the outside stuff well vs him, I like talich doing that better than ausberry. Fletcher is slower and more power. Their OL isn't as powerful as last year so our DL can really slow down the inside runs IMO. It's all about outside runs and passing game.
Click to expand...
Fletcher will run over out face if we are in dime a lot
 
BleedBlueGold

BleedBlueGold

Well-known member
Messages
6,515
Reaction score
2,904
GATTACA! said:
Play man and bring heat. Force college QBs to prove they can beat you. This isn't the NFL where even bad QBs should be able to carve you apart with hot routes.

Bludgeon people with your talent advantage.
Click to expand...

This 1000%.

They're overthinking it.

The extreme example I used elsewhere was Notre Dame vs. Clemson in 2018. Do you think Clemson, with all that talent on the DL, was scared of Ian Book beating them with his legs? Do you think they were scared of Dex, Boykin, or Claypool? Hell no. They lined up, attacked the ND OL, and completely disrupted the offense as a whole. Nothing could get going because Clemson shut it down at the line of scrimmage instead of playing soft and vanilla. That's the difference between being proactive and reactive and utilizing your talent gap.

I'm well aware that our 2026 D-line isn't the same caliber as that Clemson front, but for the life of me, I can't understand why Ash doesn't just turn these guys loose more often. Line 'em up and sic 'em with far more aggressive packages. Make the opposing offense worry about ND!! Not the other way around.
 
Last edited:
Bane

Bane

Well-known member
Messages
2,820
Reaction score
5,773
As a Vikings fan Brian Flores has spoiled me in terms of defensive playcalling. I just want to see NDs defense play with a fraction of the aggression, ill intent, and violence against quality opponents that Flores gets his guys to play with. Mind you I’m not asking for Flores’ scheme which is complex, just the general aggressive nature and confidence.
 
BleedBlueGold

BleedBlueGold

Well-known member
Messages
6,515
Reaction score
2,904
Bane said:
As a Vikings fan Brian Flores has spoiled me in terms of defensive playcalling. I just want to see NDs defense play with a fraction of the aggression, ill intent, and violence against quality opponents that Flores gets his guys to play with. Mind you I’m not asking for Flores’ scheme which is complex, just the general aggressive nature and confidence.
Click to expand...

That's the problem, imo. ND does play aggressively, fast, and violent against inferior teams. But Ash seems to shit his pants against top matchups and schemes not to lose. You see it trickle down into the players when they can't get lined up, miss assignments, and miss tackles because that's just not how they're used to playing. It's ridiculous.
 
P

PutuporShutup

Well-known member
Messages
4,955
Reaction score
2,006
allenm5333 said:
Fletcher will run over out face if we are in dime a lot
Click to expand...
The 4-1-6 i mention I'm playing it like i'm playing a 4-2-5 just with talich playing one of the LB positions overtop their TE a good bit. Against their heavier packages i'm playing 2 lbs and then talich in the box as a safety/3rd LB. Miami is almost always in 11 personnel.

I just don't see why having an extra LB in vs one of our extra safeties makes sense vs Miami. Instead of a 4 man LB rotation, i'd go down to 3 with Ausberry the odd (even) man out. I don't think Miami's OL is good enough to run on us inside with fletcher, i'm way more worried about mensah carving up our lbs and zone, and outside runs with mallory.

All of this is predicated on Tae being back and himself by the Miami game, which means he needs to be cleared next week (doesn't have to play vs navy or play much, just cleared).
 
Whiskeyjack

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,903
Reaction score
8,173
BleedBlueGold said:
This 1000%.

They're overthinking it.

The extreme example I used elsewhere was Notre Dame vs. Clemson in 2018. Do you think Clemson, with all that talent on the DL, was scared of Ian Book beating them with his legs? Do you think they were scared of Dex, Boykin, or Claypool? Hell no. They lined up, attacked the ND OL, and completely disrupted the offense as a whole. Nothing could get going because Clemson shut it down at the line of scrimmage instead of playing soft and vanilla. That's the difference between being proactive and reactive and utilizing your talent gap.

I'm well aware that our 2026 D-line isn't the same caliber as that Clemson front, but for the life of me, I can't understand why Ash doesn't just turn these guys loose more often. Line 'em up and sic 'em with far more aggressive packages. Make the opposing offense worry about ND!! Not the other way around.
Click to expand...
Golden did a great job of keeping his defense simple enough for our boys to play fast, violent and instinctually. Lots of man-coverage, one-high safety, max one-read per player and go. And that was a big reason why we played for the title in his last year.

Ash has more talent at his disposal now than Golden did then. We've got future NFL players at every level of this defense. But he gets way too conservative against elite teams--only rushes four, stops stunting, and drops our guys into a soft zone. They're clearly not comfortable playing that way, and it's now cost us the three most important games of the last two seasons.

Going back to Golden's formula seems like an easy fix. Just simplify and let them be aggressive again. We're more talented than anyone else we'll face until the post-season. Hate seeing our coaching staff make us beat ourselves.
 
SWirishfan

SWirishfan

Last Seen: A moment ago
Messages
601
Reaction score
803
Bane said:
Ash has a lot of experience, that was part of his draw. Ash is not going to figure anything out, if we adjust as a team it's probably because Freeman takes a firmer hand in the defense. At that point you start to wonder what is the point of Chris Ash? I'm not saying we need to fire Ash immediately, but after our last game (whenever that may be) we should being aiming higher at DC.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying we shouldn't except as it probably reduces what can be spent on retaining current players and paying future ones.
 
P

PutuporShutup

Well-known member
Messages
4,955
Reaction score
2,006
KMac151993 said:
Maybe in terms of depth but it is clear that the "talent" has been overrated.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. The DL is doing what they are asked to do extremely well, same with the corners and Talich, even obrien when in. The only and obvious weak links on our D are LBs constantly in zone coverage and Shuler. LBs in zone coverage was kind of expected, we just didn't expect to be playing this much zone against our better opponents. Shuler is the shocking one. I would say for every player underperforming (ausberry, shuler) you have a player doing better than expected (talich, McKinney)

I think if we played more man and actually rushed the passer with LBs responsible for run fits/gaps we'd have much more TFLs and sacks. You may give up an explosive run every now and then. But you wouldn't let Bear have a frichan QBR of 92.1. Or let BYU convert 67% of their third downs. An explosive play doesn't kill you, it's giving up TDs, especially long TD drives. UNC had 3 of them and BYU had 4. Just terrible.
 
A

allenm5333

Well-known member
Messages
4,077
Reaction score
3,944
PutuporShutup said:
The 4-1-6 i mention I'm playing it like i'm playing a 4-2-5 just with talich playing one of the LB positions overtop their TE a good bit. Against their heavier packages i'm playing 2 lbs and then talich in the box as a safety/3rd LB. Miami is almost always in 11 personnel.

I just don't see why having an extra LB in vs one of our extra safeties makes sense vs Miami. Instead of a 4 man LB rotation, i'd go down to 3 with Ausberry the odd (even) man out. I don't think Miami's OL is good enough to run on us inside with fletcher, i'm way more worried about mensah carving up our lbs and zone, and outside runs with mallory.

All of this is predicated on Tae being back and himself by the Miami game, which means he needs to be cleared next week (doesn't have to play vs navy or play much, just cleared).
Click to expand...
Only way Talich can be a lb is as a rover. Our base needs to be nickel. I would pay Johnson as nickel
 
Whiskeyjack

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,903
Reaction score
8,173
JerseyIrishMan said:
Are they overrated or are they being failed by the staff?
Click to expand...
On Saturday, they were clearly failed by the staff. For the last few decades, we've always been at a talent disadvantage against other elite teams. So we'd play the coulda/woulda/shoulda game after a loss, but it feels different losing as a dog in those situations.

BYU is the first big game I can recall where we were undeniably the more talented team, and our coaching staff simply shit the bed schematically. Feels way worse, to be honest. Not being defeatist about it, as I expect Freeman to leverage this for motivation so they turn in terminators the rest of the way.

Ash's job should be on the line against Miami. He's 0-3 in season-defining games since he got hired, and his soft fucking zone coverage was the primary culprit in all three losses.
 
JerseyIrishMan

JerseyIrishMan

Active member
Messages
125
Reaction score
128
Whiskeyjack said:
On Saturday, they were clearly failed by the staff. For the last few decades, we've always been at a talent disadvantage against other elite teams. So we'd play the coulda/woulda/shoulda game after a loss, but it feels different losing as a dog in those situations.

BYU is the first big game I can recall where we were undeniably the more talented team, and our coaching staff simply shit the bed schematically. Feels way worse, to be honest. Not being defeatist about it, as I expect Freeman to leverage this for motivation so they turn in terminators the rest of the way.

Ash's job should be on the line against Miami. He's 0-3 in season-defining games since he got hired, and his soft fucking zone coverage was the primary culprit in all three losses.
Click to expand...
Perfectly said and all too true.
 
Huntr

Huntr

24 Karat Shamrock
Messages
8,647
Reaction score
12,184
Jiggafini19Deux said:
I still think a major part of the problem is Leonard Moore is not completely healthy. I think it is more injured that hurt kind of status.
Click to expand...


And Shuler and KVA and a one handed Talich and no Brautae, etc

I said so in my 1st post in the post-game - I think the D is more banged up than they let on.

Maybe that's why he schemed like he did but it didn't work. Guys looked confused.

If that many of your top line dudes are out/not at 100%, you need to slows things down, simplify it, don't ask them to do as much a s usual.
Didn't appear that that happened.
 
SportsingHard

SportsingHard

Well-known member
Messages
1,604
Reaction score
1,408
PutuporShutup said:
If we miss the CFPs two years in a row with the team we had in 25 and this year in 26, you don't fire freeman, but both coordinators need to be gone so fast, especially Ash. Despite denbrocks terrible game play, player usage, etc you see how we left easy points out there, a lot of them. There wasn't any plays our D was prepared to make that they left out there. It was just all out terrible plan by Ash. Very similar to our two losses last year and first half vs purdue last year. Complete confusion and passive soft zone.

ND 25 and 26 aren't overrated teams like say Alabama, and Texas that statistically are not great. ND both years is one of the clear favorites to win it all late in the year, and statistically using power indexes clearly one of the best teams. Last year we were #3, this year we are #2 even with our losses both years. That tells you we have really good teams that are losing games they shouldn't. A&M last year, and BYU this year so far.

I just can't even comprehend the melt down I will have and every other ND fan should have if ND loses another regular season game this year.
Click to expand...
I find it mind-boggling that large numbers of people recognize this and call for coaches' heads at the same time. Some people can only fixate on the most negative 10% of reality, tuning out the rest or mentally twisting the greatest news into something awful. Over the past 33 games, ND has lost to only one team outside the final/current Top 2, nobody outside the Top 8, and an only the NC by more than one score. Two losses could've easily been wins if officials were doing their jobs properly. Anybody expecting ND to defeat all Top 2 or all Top 8 teams 100% of the time without considering any factors at play simply doesn't know ball.

The idea that anybody should have a meltdown ever is far worse than childish.
 
JerseyIrishMan

JerseyIrishMan

Active member
Messages
125
Reaction score
128
SportsingHard said:
I find it mind-boggling that large numbers of people recognize this and call for coaches' heads at the same time. Some people can only fixate on the most negative 10% of reality, tuning out the rest or mentally twisting the greatest news into something awful. Over the past 33 games, ND has lost to only one team outside the final/current Top 2, nobody outside the Top 8, and an only the NC by more than one score. Two losses could've easily been wins if officials were doing their jobs properly. Anybody expecting ND to defeat all Top 2 or all Top 8 teams 100% of the time without considering any factors at play simply doesn't know ball.

The idea that anybody should have a meltdown ever is far worse than childish.
Click to expand...
I don't see anyone melting down. It's childish to not be totally enthused? The truth is that every year, only a handful or so of programs are competitive for national titles. The margins are extremely thin, as you point out. Things like this:

Screenshot 2026-10-20 at 5.46.21 PM.png
and soft zone coverage have happened in all 3 of the season defining games we've played since Ash has been DC. These kinds of things are the difference between very good and elite. That matters when the margins are razor thin. All the metrics and stats in the world mean nothing if the team is not prepared and put in position to succeed in the biggest moments. ND has put the resources and support in place to compete for national championships. A return on that investment needs to be delivered at a certain point.

Have not seen anybody call for MF's job. Have seen people making valid observations. Kinda what message boards are for.
 
Dale

Dale

Well-known member
Messages
19,878
Reaction score
34,862
Huntr said:
And Shuler and KVA and a one handed Talich and no Brautae, etc

I said so in my 1st post in the post-game - I think the D is more banged up than they let on.

Maybe that's why he schemed like he did but it didn't work. Guys looked confused.

If that many of your top line dudes are out/not at 100%, you need to slows things down, simplify it, don't ask them to do as much a s usual.
Didn't appear that that happened.
Click to expand...

When I posted the list of TDs in the Miami, A&M and BYU it is really something that you can talk yourself into. On one hand you are what your record, the scoreboard indicated. On the other hand, how tantalizing an excuse can be to see TDs being scored on Hobbs, Zackery, Thomas etc. That you had an ejected Shuler, banged up Moore, banged up Gray, banged up Moore again, banged up Shuler (?), no Tae, no Traore, hurt KVA etc

Heck you can do this even, ND is undefeated with Tae Johnson as a starter

Where does the absolute truth lie?
 
SportsingHard

SportsingHard

Well-known member
Messages
1,604
Reaction score
1,408
JerseyIrishMan said:
I don't see anyone melting down. It's childish to not be totally enthused? The truth is that every year, only a handful or so of programs are competitive for national titles. The margins are extremely thin, as you point out. Things like this:

View attachment 3065423
and soft zone coverage have happened in all 3 of the season defining games we've played since Ash has been DC. These kinds of things are the difference between very good and elite. That matters when the margins are razor thin. All the metrics and stats in the world mean nothing if the team is not prepared and put in position to succeed in the biggest moments. ND has put the resources and support in place to compete for national championships. A return on that investment needs to be delivered at a certain point.

Have not seen anybody call for MF's job. Have seen people making valid observations. Kinda what message boards are for.
Click to expand...
I quoted and responded directly to a poster who said, "I just can't even comprehend the melt down I will have and every other ND fan should have if ND loses another regular season game this year."

If you can't read, I can't have a conversation with you.
 
BleedBlueGold

BleedBlueGold

Well-known member
Messages
6,515
Reaction score
2,904
SportsingHard said:
I find it mind-boggling that large numbers of people recognize this and call for coaches' heads at the same time. Some people can only fixate on the most negative 10% of reality, tuning out the rest or mentally twisting the greatest news into something awful. Over the past 33 games, ND has lost to only one team outside the final/current Top 2, nobody outside the Top 8, and an only the NC by more than one score. Two losses could've easily been wins if officials were doing their jobs properly. Anybody expecting ND to defeat all Top 2 or all Top 8 teams 100% of the time without considering any factors at play simply doesn't know ball.

The idea that anybody should have a meltdown ever is far worse than childish.
Click to expand...

This is a "can't see the forest for the trees" sort of post, imo. While you focus on the poster's "meltdown" comment, you've lost sight of why people are at the brink of said meltdown. You used the past 33 games as a reference, but what people are mad about are the last 3 top ten matchups. No one is expecting ND to defeat all Top 2 or Top 8 teams 100% of the time. But the reality is that since Ash showed up, ND has defeated Top 2 and Top 8 teams a grand total of 0% percent of the time. If they lose to Miami, that's 0-4, and still 0%....a far cry from your 100% accusation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top